How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

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Mason
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How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Mason »

Hi all. I'm having this problem. I can't talk about climate change without, almost across the board, ending up angry with the person I'm talking to. There is so much misinformation and bullshit out there on this subject (purposely) that usually a discussion about why maybe not drinking out of plastic cups and eating off plastic cutlery when glass and metal are available, devolves into my trying to de-bunk the merchants of doubts bunk which leads to me often coming off as an ass to who I'm talking to and me losing respect for the person I am trying to convince that we need to do something about this shit. NOW!

What makes things extra hard is that a good portion of my friends, who are largely comprised of sailors, are traditional team Republican voters. They're not bad folks, they just vote team Republican, just like they always support Virginia Tech and the Patriots. Most of them are "educated" yet on this issue they just won't get it. It's like they want to believe the bunk science an hope that everything will miraculously be OK. I even had a baby boomer, retired military, try to use the argument the other day that India and China aren't trying to do anything about it (false), so why should we? This is a 60 something man applying schoolyard logic to the greatest calamity of our time and possibly species history.

Anyway, a rant I guess. I have a child and I'd like him (and my team Republican friends kids) to have a future.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by featureless »

It's a rough conversation, for sure. Even here in liberal utopia North Bay Area, you run into deniers. I've got it even worse based on my swallowing the "we missed the boat on mitigation, time to brace for impact and start planning adaptation" pill. It's kind of like trying to sell life insurance at a wedding. Very few are willing to talk about what needs to happen to allow our children to have a livable climate.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by CDFingers »

A good way to approach climate change is through the promise of profits. Technologies are rolling away from fossil and toward renewables. Whether the rolling will do good things for the future is irrelevant under this premise. It's about profit. Investments in wind, solar, tidal, nuclear, and biochemical promise a lower cost of operation than fossil. That's the selling point. Moreover, such a move also requires a smart grid and connection to the IT, the Internet of Things. Profit is out there to be gotten.

Oh, and stop eating meat.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by senorgrand »

Oil companies have indirectly admitted global warming is real...look to their plans for arctic sea drilling and polar shipping routes.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by featureless »

senorgrand wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:43 pm
Oil companies have indirectly admitted global warming is real...look to their plans for arctic sea drilling and polar shipping routes.
The Department of Defense is very open about it. They consider climate change to be the biggest threat multiplier there is. They've published numerous studies on it. Here's a quick link for some info.
https://climateandsecurity.org/2019/02/ ... 2017-2019/

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by K9s »

I can only discuss it in terms of air pollution with deniers. They believe what Faux News tells them to believe. I am not going to change their minds.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by lurker »

while i personally am convinced (it just makes sense) i don't consider myself well-informed enough to make a cogent argument. that the DOD has a position on it is (to me) compelling, and in rational times ought to convince just about anyone, but nowadays, who knows why people believe what they believe? we've become a superstitious lot.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Stiff »

How do you convince a flat-earther that the earth is round? You don't. To them it's a matter of faith rather than science.

Climate change denial is a matter of faith, not due to lack of knowledge. It's willful ignorance.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by TrueTexan »

You can not change the minds of these non-believers because they aren’t looking at facts but only their beliefs. For them to question their beliefs on climate change might force them to question their other beliefs, white supremacy, anti LGBTQ, support of conservative causes, and evangelical prosperity Christianity vs. the teaching of Christ.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Wino »

I quit tilting with windmills - they are not worth the angst and I'll never change their mind. This applies to most everything right wing, not just climate.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Mason »

So we're just fucked?
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Wino »

I was trying to be PC. Yeah, we're fucked!
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw."
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Mason »

Well now I feel better.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by Wino »

I don't! LOL
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw."
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by lurker »

Mason wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:10 am
So we're just fucked?
depends on how close to the coast you are. over the next couple of decades, beachfront property will move inland. :sorry: some wise real estate investments could make for a comfortable retirement. there's opportunity to be had here. :fishing:

i live in a historic house* next door to a fast food restaurant and routinely pick up trash in their parking lot, not because i think it will do any good in the long run but because i like my little bit of the world that i see to be a nicer place. think globally act locally.

*an 'istoric 'ouse, for you anglophones.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by CDFingers »

We can whine or we can plant forests. Or we can whine AND plant forests. Either way, trees are groovy places to store carbon, and they suck it out of the air.

We may very well get fucked. However, we're not yet fucked. My position is to keep bailing with my little tin cup while convincing everyone else to use their own cups to bail--repeat until the waves come up over the gunwale or the ship rights itself. There is no other rational choice for me.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by eelj »

Lurker makes a good point on the DOD position. There is also state DNR positions and I'll bet they all recognize the global warming.

I know in my state the official state fish is the walleye pike. The DNR a few years ago caused quite a stir when it announced that the rising average water temperature has them rethinking its very expensive restocking and management program for that fish. They are considering concentrating on large mouth bass instead.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

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lurker wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:40 am
while i personally am convinced (it just makes sense) i don't consider myself well-informed enough to make a cogent argument. that the DOD has a position on it is (to me) compelling, and in rational times ought to convince just about anyone, but nowadays, who knows why people believe what they believe? we've become a superstitious lot.
I use the DOD example in discussions with deniers for several reasons. First, most conservative folk like the military, so they are more inclined to believe it than them high brow scientists or the media. Second, DOD is most certainly not a scientific do gooder organization, so the fact the DOD believes, adds credence. Third, the DOD is tasked primarily with ensuring security of the homeland. When they say climate change is the biggest threat to global security, you better pay attention.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by featureless »

Mason wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:10 am
So we're just fucked?
Pretty much. Climate change impacts have accelerated since around 2012 to the point that people are noticing whacked weather patterns because they are impacting them. Lots still say it's weather (and it is), but it is directly linked to several things that are climate change induced: 1) the jet stream is not acting in its usual way--it is the mover of weather and it's been getting "stuck" theses days so rain/drought patterns get stuck in locations. 2) a warmer climate leads to warmer air that can hold more water and a warmer ocean leads to more evaporation and more energy for storms. 3) the Arctic sea ice is failing. While this contributes some to sea level rise, it's much bigger impact is on the jet stream and the loss of Earth's air conditioner (it reflects a lot of UV back into space). 4) as weather patterns change or get stuck, it impacts our ability to farm food and native flora and fauna's ability to live--we are currently in the middle of an mass extinction event (yes, really). 5) and this one is a bitch, as the climate warms, positive feedbacks begin to occur through melting permafrost venting CO2 and methane and the ocean begins to lose its ability to absorb CO2, so we get more greenhouse gases emitted even if we stopped fossil fuel use cold turkey.

There are a lot of other impacts, but those are the serious, society-ending ones, that will result in mass migrations and famines. You'll likely be ok. Our kids? They'll live through the beginning of the end. Feel batter? :fun:

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by highdesert »

I agree, it's a tough conversation. Faux News has done a good job of indoctrinating male viewers in the Boomer and Gen X generations on the party line. The few I've encountered immediately got defensive and thought I was criticizing them for their huge gas guzzling pickup truck or SUV. They feel if they want a big vehicle and can afford it then f-off, same with their boats, toyboxes and toys. If they want to drive their quads through the desert that is their right, screw the environment but there are some who realize the desert environment is very delicate. The Millenials I worked with were convinced of climate change.

Sitting in a restaurant yesterday, there was a table of eight elderly women probably between 60 and 80 years old and the recent shutdown of the national parks came up, they all bemoaned the damage to the environment done by people abusing the national parks. One woman brought up that in places in the desert you can still see the tracks made by Patton's tanks when they trained in the CA desert in WWII, the desert regenerates very slowly. I agree the DOD policy might work.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by lurker »

i don't know how you guys do it. deal with all this BS, that is.i can't seem to get away from it, it's 24 and seven. between the normal BS of everyday life and constant exposure to our idiot-in-chief's BS it's no wonder i can't seem to get my blood pressure under control. and yet, some of you seem to thrive on it, like a fish in the sea, not even aware of the water. i want to go live in a cave on a mountaintop.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by featureless »

lurker wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:52 pm
i want to go live in a cave on a mountaintop.
Me too. But reality precludes that choice for me, so I engage where I can, especially around climate change. If you don't, your cave on the mountaintop may not be a secure refuge for long.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by SpaceRanger42 »

If you really want to bake your noodle try telling them that we get a substantial amount of greenhouse gases from ranches. Not only will they start calling you a commie but a steak hating vegi commie. I may be speaking from experience.
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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by eelj »

Just to set peoples minds at ease. Do not worry about climate change destroying the world as we know it. I'm quite confident that with the kind of human garbage running the world that it will be destroyed from catastrophic global warfare long before climate change has a chance to.

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Re: How to Discuss Climate Change - I Can't!

Post by featureless »

eelj wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:52 pm
Just to set peoples minds at ease. Do not worry about climate change destroying the world as we know it. I'm quite confident that with the kind of human garbage running the world that it will be destroyed from catastrophic global warfare long before climate change has a chance to.
A true optimist!

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