I believe you should (for the most part) shoot what you carry and carry what you shoot. That can make for some expensive shooting.
How many roll their own self defense rounds? What are your thoughts?
Also, any SD loads you might have for 357 and 45 acp would be appreciated, as I may start reloading for those soon.
Thanks!
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
2I carry factory loads and only from reputable manufacturers - none of that extra super exploding anti zombie stuff.
I don't want to be the test case if a prosecutor tried to argue that I reloaded extra deadly baby killer ammo if I ever have to use a gun in an otherwise legal self defense situation.
I just shoot enough of that ammo to be sure that the gun functions reliably, then duplicate that ammo in terms of bullet weight and velocity as reloads for cheap training. When I leave the range, the factory ammo goes back in.
I don't want to be the test case if a prosecutor tried to argue that I reloaded extra deadly baby killer ammo if I ever have to use a gun in an otherwise legal self defense situation.
I just shoot enough of that ammo to be sure that the gun functions reliably, then duplicate that ammo in terms of bullet weight and velocity as reloads for cheap training. When I leave the range, the factory ammo goes back in.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
3Agreed with Viking on those counts. Although there is something to be said that if you are getting questioned over your zombie baby killer reloads, then you're already in a whole heap of trouble. But why bother even having the remotest chance? Reload your range ammo to the same speed and weight as the factory stuff and call it a day.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
4My instructor strongly emphasized that if you are in court, you are still alive. Pretty much all that matters. Factory, factory defense load, custom. S&W.500. You are still alive. If it is a legal shoot, a good lawyer can explain quickly. Then, you bring suit against the estate of the dearly departed for legal costs and the cost of the expended ammo.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan
- Ronald Reagan
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
5I'm more concerned with squibs than legal issues.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
6Same as all three above. I use CCI Blazer 158 gr JHP in my .357.
Reloads are for practice.
CDFingers
Reloads are for practice.
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
7Pretty spot on write up here:
http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/book ... aled-carry
http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/book ... aled-carry
While it’s a slam-dunk to defend your use of hollow point ammo, the use of handloads in a shooting presents much more serious problems to your defense team. Defensive shootings are often very close-range affairs in which gunshot residue (GSR) from your muzzle is deposited on your attacker’s body or clothing. This can become a critical evidentiary factor if the other side insists he was too far away from you to endanger you at the moment he was shot. The distance testing is done with exemplar ammunition, that is, ammo identical to what was in your gun, but not the same exact cartridges.
Do you think that’s a BS argument? So did I…until I saw a judge accept it, in a case where handloads were used in the death weapon, but the state crime lab tested with a much more powerful factory load, based on the headstamp on the reloaded casings. That gave a false indication of distance involved, and the defendant – whom I have strong reason to believe was innocent – was convicted of manslaughter.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
8Another thing to remember - bullet shape doesn't mean a thing for realistic training, self defense will be at to close a range for trajectory to matter. As long as both rounds work in the gun, you can train with 124 grain FMJs at 1200 fps and carry 124 grain JHPs at 1200 and it will not make any difference in realism.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
9Charged in Dallas last week with assault with a deadly weaponshinzen wrote: Although there is something to be said that if you are getting questioned over your zombie baby killer reloads, then you're already in a whole heap of trouble.
Savage tattoos should also be avoided.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
11and remember, Red Shirts are expendable.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
12I can't afford to not reload my carry ammunition.
Stick to high quality reload only components. For 357 magnum:
Starline brass
Standard small pistol primer
158gr Hornady XTP jhp.
1cc Lee measure of 2400.
Stronger than 38 +p but not fire breathing. Have a duplicate box in storage for them to play with. By using Starline (not used for any factory ammo that I'm aware of, you can avoid the problem of that article.
Back to deep lurking. I
Stick to high quality reload only components. For 357 magnum:
Starline brass
Standard small pistol primer
158gr Hornady XTP jhp.
1cc Lee measure of 2400.
Stronger than 38 +p but not fire breathing. Have a duplicate box in storage for them to play with. By using Starline (not used for any factory ammo that I'm aware of, you can avoid the problem of that article.
Back to deep lurking. I
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
13lurker wrote:and remember, Red Shirts are expendable.
looks like an angry Trekie
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
14I reload for practice and range, clay, shooting. But I will always buy for carry. Like others say, it really dont matter if your close to the same weights , as your more than likely going to be way under 15 feet in defense situations. I dont even know if weight would matter. Just make sure the factory rounds cycle well, and then buy a box just for Conceal carry. Why be the test subject for lawyers when its so easy to avoid with factory rounds. One 20 box of defense rounds is not going to break the bank, and if you never have to use them they will last a long time. If you do have to use them, the savings in legal cost will more than make them worth while..
Just my opinion..
Just my opinion..
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
15There's an argument either way, so I just reload my own. I'm satisfied I can do as well as any factory can. For a .38 A good non plus P round is 5gr of Bullseye behind a 125gr HP, I usually load plated not jacketed. If it was jacketed I'd use the same load for the same weight for Hornady, bump it about .2gr for Sierra. This gives about 240ft/lbs and about 950ft/sec out of a snubby. If you want +P, just load a 148gr WC and leave 1/2 of it sticking out of the case, DO NOT seat it flush. Or load 6gr of Unique behind the 125gr HP.
For .357 my favorite load is 8gr of 3N37 behind a plated 125gr HP, which is about 410ft/lbs and 1200ft/sec out of a 6" .357, which is what I shoot .357 from.
I have loads for .380, .32acp. 9mm Mak and .32H&R/.327 as well.
I'm not too worried about 'killer bullet' accusations, pretty silly as they are under max quite a bit, or if near max the caliber is considered underpowered. .32acp isn't considered by a lot of people adequate for self defense.
For .357 my favorite load is 8gr of 3N37 behind a plated 125gr HP, which is about 410ft/lbs and 1200ft/sec out of a 6" .357, which is what I shoot .357 from.
I have loads for .380, .32acp. 9mm Mak and .32H&R/.327 as well.
I'm not too worried about 'killer bullet' accusations, pretty silly as they are under max quite a bit, or if near max the caliber is considered underpowered. .32acp isn't considered by a lot of people adequate for self defense.
When only cops have guns, it's called a police state.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.
I carry due to toxic masculinity.......just other people's.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
16You have misunderstood the issue being raised. Using loads "under max quite a bit" won't help, a zealous prosecutor will use that against you. They will use the strongest full house factory load available, something that spits a 3 foot fireball, to show that the victim couldn't possibly have been close enough to be a danger to you, because there are no powder burns or residue on them.Antiquus wrote:...<snip>...
I'm not too worried about 'killer bullet' accusations, pretty silly as they are under max quite a bit, or if near max the caliber is considered underpowered. .32acp isn't considered by a lot of people adequate for self defense.
"As shown in our test, the lack of powder burn or residue means the poor victim, instead of being within arm's reach as claimed, must in fact have been at least 25 feet away. The defendant is a crazed bloodthirsty killer who was just looking for half an excuse to murder."
And since most people in the jury will probably have little or no understanding of ballistics, well...
"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
17Starling brass is usd by Buffalo Bore. I have a box of 44 magnum of theirs and just checked to make sure. I have never heard of a case where the ammo used was a big deal in making the case for the DA. It might be if it was a civil suit. In my 45 acp and in my 357 I use Gold Dots. The 44 mag I'm using a basic Keith load right now but thinking of using Buffalo Bore Anti-personnel 200 gr wadcutter at 1300 fps.wlewisiii wrote:I can't afford to not reload my carry ammunition.
Stick to high quality reload only components. For 357 magnum:
Starline brass
Standard small pistol primer
158gr Hornady XTP jhp.
1cc Lee measure of 2400.
Stronger than 38 +p but not fire breathing. Have a duplicate box in storage for them to play with. By using Starline (not used for any factory ammo that I'm aware of, you can avoid the problem of that article.
Back to deep lurking. I
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
18If liability is an issue, the smart thing to do would be to FOIA the local PD to find out what brand they carry and use that.
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
19The only problem with that is they only shoot those puny 9mm Poodle Poppers. If it ain't got magnum in its name or starts with a four in its caliber it ain't happening.senorgrand wrote:If liability is an issue, the smart thing to do would be to FOIA the local PD to find out what brand they carry and use that.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
Re: Reloading Self Defense Rounds?
20Ah, good point.
I would consider the 9mm a viable defense round if I could carry as many rounds as my local LEOs have in their wonder 9s.
But being limited to 10 rounds, 357 and 45 make much more sense.
I would consider the 9mm a viable defense round if I could carry as many rounds as my local LEOs have in their wonder 9s.
But being limited to 10 rounds, 357 and 45 make much more sense.