9mm reloaders WARNING

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shinzen
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9mm reloaders WARNING

#1 Post by shinzen » Fri May 05, 2017 6:07 pm

So I'm not the first to discover this by any stretch of the imagination, but I picked up some random range brass in the last few weeks from somewhere, and after cleaning it and getting ready to resize/prime on the LNL, I noticed a case that I thought had gotten a smaller case stuck in it or something and discarded it. Had a second one show up (which is one of the reasons why visual inspection is so important) and figured something was up.

Sure enough, this brass made by Maxxtech has a really thick case on the bottom half of it- instead of the .01" thickness, it jumps up to .05" thickness. Chucked it on the scale and it weighs in at around 80 grains rather than the normal brass at around 60- 30% heavier which massively reduces the case volume. Apparently it's made in Russia, and they do it to prevent additional bullet set back and to reduce powder charges. If you loaded it up with a standard or even low power load, may well have yourself a kaboom with the stuff. Did some poking around the web and it looks like it popped up as an issue last year, but I didn't see the thread, and figured others may not have as well.

Also decided pics would be in order, so I chopped on in half on my mini saw so you can see what I'm talking about. Be careful out there.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#2 Post by Bisbee » Fri May 05, 2017 6:39 pm

Thank you for this, Shinzen!
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#3 Post by senorgrand » Fri May 05, 2017 7:19 pm

Damn...that's some bad news right there. :(
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#4 Post by Marlene » Fri May 05, 2017 7:31 pm

Thanks for the heads up!

Their case design is a really good idea, but definitely not compatible with standard powder charges.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#5 Post by Sarge » Fri May 05, 2017 7:33 pm

good catch... Kudo's

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#6 Post by workinstiff » Fri May 05, 2017 7:54 pm

Thanks....just picked up a few more cases than I fired today :roll:

That's a BOLO.

Head stamp is?

In other events, I had a .22lr case hide inside of a 9mm case....that was an easy puzzle to solve.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#7 Post by lurker » Fri May 05, 2017 8:08 pm

this "mini saw", i'd like to know more.
i've found many a 9mm case hiding inside a .45acp.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#8 Post by shinzen » Fri May 05, 2017 8:52 pm

Marlene wrote: Their case design is a really good idea, but definitely not compatible with standard powder charges.
Totally agreed. I actually dig the case design, it's pretty clever for a few reasons, and if it was more prevalent I might even work up some loads for it, but given the rarity, it's just not worth screwing around with.

Workingstiff- Headstamp is Maxxtech- however the interwebz say that there are others, so just be aware if you're scrounging range brass.

Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#9 Post by lurker » Sat May 06, 2017 10:23 am

shinzen wrote: Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
cool, thanks. they sell a little mini-table saw i've been trying to think of a use for, just because it's so tiny and cute. they keep it near the sextants, which i assume are shoddy junk, but am tempted by anyway, just because i don't have a sextant. you never know, i might get lost at sea one day, three hour cruise or something.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#10 Post by TrueTexan » Sat May 06, 2017 11:03 am

Made in Russia. Must be Putin trying to sabotage our guns. :whistle:
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#11 Post by CDFingers » Sat May 06, 2017 11:42 am

I did not suspect such a thing could happen. I'll check any range brass of any caliber I snag. Thanks for the heads up.

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#12 Post by dandad » Sat May 06, 2017 1:12 pm

Thank you! What a find.

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#13 Post by dandad » Sat May 06, 2017 1:20 pm

lurker wrote:
shinzen wrote: Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
cool, thanks. they sell a little mini-table saw i've been trying to think of a use for, just because it's so tiny and cute. they keep it near the sextants, which i assume are shoddy junk, but am tempted by anyway, just because i don't have a sextant. you never know, i might get lost at sea one day, three hour cruise or something.
Ive been looking at that saw too. $49. I was thinking it would be great for pistol grips and different small wood work. I dont think it has the whompum to chew metal though.



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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#14 Post by shinzen » Sat May 06, 2017 1:25 pm

My dad uses one similar to the HF table saw for cutting pieces for his model railroad stuff. IIRC he's also got some kind of small miter saw as well.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#15 Post by dandad » Sat May 06, 2017 1:33 pm

shinzen wrote:My dad uses one similar to the HF table saw for cutting pieces for his model railroad stuff. IIRC he's also got some kind of small miter saw as well.
Will it cut metal? small brass, aluminum? Non ferris stuff ?

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#16 Post by shinzen » Sat May 06, 2017 1:47 pm

I'm talking to him later today and I'll ask him. I don't think he got the HF model but instead got one that was a step up so he could do brass and whatnot for his track, but I could be wrong.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#17 Post by TheViking » Sat May 06, 2017 10:43 pm

Damn, that's a fat wall. I'll keep an eye out for that.

I always visually check the powder level before seating the bullet, even on the progressive - so I should be OK, I'd think that would overflow with my 9mm charges.

Something like .38 Special would be worse, with light loads the powder takes up less than half of the case.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#18 Post by shinzen » Sat May 06, 2017 10:47 pm

Yeah, was on my progressive that I caught it. Stood out enough that I caught it on initial inspection. Would definitely trigger my powder cop die

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#19 Post by pokute » Mon May 08, 2017 5:04 pm

Somebody in another forum pointed out another problem with the design of that brass:
That sharp transition step from thick to thin is a severe stress riser and has confirmed cases of case separation and I have seen it happen with my own 2 eyes! I have culled out pieces of step-drawn brass that had an incipient separation ring and sectioned this brass and verified it was about to split! The brass in my examples is all one piece. When it fails, it will likely leave that thinner walled ring of brass in your chamber. Keep that in mind folks! Stay safe!

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#20 Post by Pomme » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:42 pm

I have just made my third batch ever. The first two times I used range brass. This time I collected some of my own brass from some new cartridges I bought from LAX Ammo. At some point I noticed it was heavier than than the other cases of mixed stuff. I was wondering if that would be a problem.
I did a little testing:
I weighed about sixteen empty cases of LAX ammo and other mixed cases
LAX 68.1 gr - 68.8 gr ---------------------------average 68.3 gr
mixed range stuff 57.2 gr - 63.6 -------------average 61 gr
Then I measured the capacity by filling the cases with powder (titegroup) of seven shells
LAX 10.3 gr except for one at 10.5 ----------average 10.3 gr
mixed stuff 10 gr - 11.7 gr---------------------average 10.9 gr

so it seems like there is about the volume of what 0.6gr occupies less pace in a LAX case.

I have made 30 rounds of berry's 124 gr with 3.7 gr titegroup that I was going to take to the range tomorrow.
What do you think? is it risky?

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#21 Post by workinstiff » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:40 am

Scrounged some 9mm range brass..one case had a .22 case inside of that. What are the odds? I always inspect brass before it goes into the press.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#22 Post by shinzen » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am

Pomme- What you are describing is different than the brass in the OP- sounds like LAX is similar to or is using military brass, which is thicker overall, and generally uses less powder so as to not increase pressure. Since that is about at the starting load for 124gr loads, it should be okay, I'd still start at 3.6 which is the recommended starting load, as the reduced case volume will increase pressure. You may find that it doesn't cycle the gun reliably, so as with any load, start at the bottom and work your way up. Titegroup is a spiky powder that can get unpredictable at higher pressures, so be careful with it.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#23 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:54 am

I'm not sure I see the point to reloading 9mm when you can get quality 115 grain FMJ for $0.19 or $0.20 /round from Federal and Blazer Brass.

Sure, quality home-defense JHP can run as high $1/round--but you don't expect to shoot that very often.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#24 Post by offensivename » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:15 am

There are other reasons to reload than saving money.

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#25 Post by popgunn » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:10 pm

Too bad we don't have data for those, they might last a good while. At 80 grains, an ejected case hitting a bystander might prove painful too.

Stopping 'setback' can be done with a canneluere (spelling check please) in the case. Some 45 acp's have them. CH4D sells a tool to do just that, and on bullets too.
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