9mm reloaders WARNING

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lurker
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#26 Post by lurker » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:54 pm

popgunn wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:10 pm
cannelure
covfefe!

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#27 Post by Marlene » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:21 pm

The second to last e is extraneous.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#28 Post by AndyH » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:21 pm

lurker wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:54 pm
popgunn wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:10 pm
cannelure
Is that for casting or trolling? :fun:
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#29 Post by lurker » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:08 pm

AndyH wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:21 pm
lurker wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:54 pm
popgunn wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:10 pm
cannelure
Is that for casting or trolling? :fun:
:fishing: yes.
covfefe!

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#30 Post by rascally » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:18 pm

offensivename wrote:There are other reasons to reload than saving money.
Roger that. Most rifle hand loaders are aiming for accuracy, not necessarily cost savings (although that usually comes with it). Every barrel is a law unto itself, due to tolerances in the machining process. Reamers wear as they are used. Barrel buttons wear. People get tired or distracted...

Many things can effect accuracy:. Which brass used, which primers used, how much of which powder, distance from the lands, twist rate... many, many things.

In some ways looking for accuracy in YOUR gun can be like trying to solve a mystery novel before you reach the end of the story.

Factory ammo is generally loaded to the lowest common denominator of what will work in most guns without exposing the Corporation to legal liability from people using their ammo in a weak gun.

That's why there is, to my knowledge, nobody is selling 6.8mm ammo loaded to SPC 2 level anymore. They're sort of like a Ruger only load. In the lawyer's opinions, too many people out there who have the original SPC chamber (which were reamed from incorrect drawings), and too many people who don't know the difference. So if you want SPC 2 ammo you almost have to make it yourself.





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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#31 Post by lurker » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:09 pm

reloading, i think, is about consistency. YOU are in control. how much consistency are you willing to work for?
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#32 Post by TheViking » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:47 pm

lurker wrote:reloading, i think, is about consistency. YOU are in control. how much consistency are you willing to work for?
Depends. If I'm loading for Steel Challenge or IDPA, I don't really care as long as it is reliable. The targets are close and relatively large so a bit of variance in velocity won't make a difference.

1000 yard rifle is something completely different.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#33 Post by rascally » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:24 am

TheViking wrote:
lurker wrote:reloading, i think, is about consistency. YOU are in control. how much consistency are you willing to work for?
Depends. If I'm loading for Steel Challenge or IDPA, I don't really care as long as it is reliable. The targets are close and relatively large so a bit of variance in velocity won't make a difference.

1000 yard rifle is something completely different.
Then you're sorting your brass and bullets by weight..?

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#34 Post by TheViking » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:47 am

rascally wrote:
TheViking wrote:
lurker wrote:reloading, i think, is about consistency. YOU are in control. how much consistency are you willing to work for?
Depends. If I'm loading for Steel Challenge or IDPA, I don't really care as long as it is reliable. The targets are close and relatively large so a bit of variance in velocity won't make a difference.

1000 yard rifle is something completely different.
Then you're sorting your brass and bullets by weight..?
For long range? Not quite *that* much. But I do use the same brass (Hornady), keep track of how many times it's been fired, measure case length and trim if necessary and I weigh each load. I use Sierra Match
King bullets which are pretty damn consistent.

For Steel and IDPA ammo, I just dump a load of random 9mm cases (after sorting out steel and aluminum cases and tumbling) into the case feeder on my progressive press and let the powder dropper do its thing.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#35 Post by Pomme » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:27 pm

shinzen wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am
Pomme- What you are describing is different than the brass in the OP- sounds like LAX is similar to or is using military brass, which is thicker overall, and generally uses less powder so as to not increase pressure. Since that is about at the starting load for 124gr loads, it should be okay, I'd still start at 3.6 which is the recommended starting load, as the reduced case volume will increase pressure. You may find that it doesn't cycle the gun reliably, so as with any load, start at the bottom and work your way up. Titegroup is a spiky powder that can get unpredictable at higher pressures, so be careful with it.
I have increased my loads to 3.8 of titegroup and it seems to be working well. I shoot the LAX cases and the other cases separately and the pressure (according to the feedback of my hands) seems a little higher with LAX cases but not as much as Winchester white box (I alternated the three loads in my magazine for comparison).

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#36 Post by Pomme » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:42 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:54 am
I'm not sure I see the point to reloading 9mm when you can get quality 115 grain FMJ for $0.19 or $0.20 /round from Federal and Blazer Brass.

Sure, quality home-defense JHP can run as high $1/round--but you don't expect to shoot that very often.
Several reasons,
I can make a box of 50 for about $7. Living in CA, I can't order online and I would have to go to a gun show to get it at $10 a box if I buy a 1000-can. The savings would be even greater with poly coated.
I only own 9mm guns but now that I am starting to reload I am considering other calibers that I would have thought of as too expensive before.
I also enjoy the fiddling around and the learning of reloading.

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#37 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:48 pm

Pomme wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:42 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:54 am
I'm not sure I see the point to reloading 9mm when you can get quality 115 grain FMJ for $0.19 or $0.20 /round from Federal and Blazer Brass.

Sure, quality home-defense JHP can run as high $1/round--but you don't expect to shoot that very often.
Several reasons,
I can make a box of 50 for about $7. Living in CA, I can't order online and I would have to go to a gun show to get it at $10 a box if I buy a 1000-can. The savings would be even greater with poly coated.
I only own 9mm guns but now that I am starting to reload I am considering other calibers that I would have thought of as too expensive before.
I also enjoy the fiddling around and the learning of reloading.
I LOVE getting a logical answer, even if (ESPECIALLY if) it refutes an assertion of mine! A box of 50 for $7???? Wow!
Most of what I own is 9mm... I now have .357 magnum / .38 special revolver, which, with a different cylinder, could shoot 9mm, my fav ammo.
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#38 Post by VodoundaVinci » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:33 am

I'll have to say that the ammunition I get for $7 is basically junk compared to what I can reload at the same price. A couple buddies of mine laid down the challenge that the $1.00+ a round super duper defense ammunition was worth that kind of money (in 9mm) because it is build to exacting specs and performs way above the "white box" stuff or handloads. So, we all chipped in and bought $200+ worth of the super premium SD stuff and disassembled it - shot it across a chronograph, pulled the bullets, weighed the charges, tested OAL and for consistency against my hand loads.

My hand loads beat the piss out of the very best, hands down, for accuracy and consistency. My point is that I can buy $7 a box "white box" ammo or build premium ammunition that rivals/surpasses the best 9mm money can buy for about the same amount of money. Plus I enjoy building ammunition and the tweaky, quirky, aspect of it.

It's not about the $7.00 - it's about being able to build the best ammunition possible, built to my guns needs, for what it costs to buy bargain basement ammo....'cause I have not been very impressed with Blaser, Federal, Remington, etc. target fodder. It goes bang. If that's good enough then there is no reason to roll yer own built to exacting specs.

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#39 Post by shinzen » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:49 pm

Welp I'm glad I use the Dillon powder alarm system. Finally got a chance to sit down with the progressive again, as I'm running low on 9mm (It's been a slow 6 months for shooting)- dumped a bunch of clean brass into the Hornady LNL and started kicking out rounds- outside of a couple of minor adjustment issues, all of a sudden the powder alarm screams at me- sure enough, it caught two more pieces of this brass that I missed on my initial sorting. (To be fair, there's about 1000 pieces of brass in the clean bag, so a couple isn't out of line)
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#40 Post by YankeeTarheel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:36 pm

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:33 am
I'll have to say that the ammunition I get for $7 is basically junk compared to what I can reload at the same price. A couple buddies of mine laid down the challenge that the $1.00+ a round super duper defense ammunition was worth that kind of money (in 9mm) because it is build to exacting specs and performs way above the "white box" stuff or handloads. So, we all chipped in and bought $200+ worth of the super premium SD stuff and disassembled it - shot it across a chronograph, pulled the bullets, weighed the charges, tested OAL and for consistency against my hand loads.

My hand loads beat the piss out of the very best, hands down, for accuracy and consistency. My point is that I can buy $7 a box "white box" ammo or build premium ammunition that rivals/surpasses the best 9mm money can buy for about the same amount of money. Plus I enjoy building ammunition and the tweaky, quirky, aspect of it.

It's not about the $7.00 - it's about being able to build the best ammunition possible, built to my guns needs, for what it costs to buy bargain basement ammo....'cause I have not been very impressed with Blaser, Federal, Remington, etc. target fodder. It goes bang. If that's good enough then there is no reason to roll yer own built to exacting specs.

VooDoo
You make great points. And I must agree. And since my priorities are that I need it to go "Bang!" reliably, hit the target reliably, up to 15 yards (50 for my PCCs), and not make a huge mess of me and the gun, I like the Federal and Blaser for that.
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My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING

#41 Post by eelj » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:02 pm

If someone wants ammo for self defense use in his 9mm he will be paying quite a bit more money for good and proven fight stopper ammo than the cheap full metal patch ammo on the market.

I'm a firm believer in practice for gun carriers and people concerned with home defense using that particular type of ammo. If you are nervous about liability using reloads for self defense then buy the ammo that you feel is a proven fight stopper, but it will be expensive as hell. You can then develop a very close approximation of that load for very little investment that you can practice with.

My experience with shooting both long arms and handguns for 50 years is that it takes at least 10 times the practice with handguns to be even close to the same level of proficiency with long arms. Reloading cheap but good ammo can help make that happen.

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