Barrel Length

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SpaceRanger42
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Barrel Length

#1 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:35 pm

I load .357 for my lever gun and I am not unhappy with the load but it really feels a lot softer than say factory rounds from Federal. I note that the reloading manuals tend to give charge weights for pistol length barrels in the pistol length cartridges, do you ever find you need to adjust for the barrel length of a long gun?
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Marlene
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Re: Barrel Length

#2 Post by Marlene » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:12 pm

Some manuals have rifle specific loads. A rifle can do more with slower powders.
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Re: Barrel Length

#3 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:27 pm

Marlene wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:12 pm
Some manuals have rifle specific loads. A rifle can do more with slower powders.
I had heard that but I am still looking. I would assume the initial min and max charge wouldn't change but I am starting to get an inkling that not all powder is created equal. My .357 feels a little sluggish, but the same powder in my 9mm def has some pop to it. Apples and oranges I know, but it got me thinking.
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Re: Barrel Length

#4 Post by CDFingers » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:45 pm

SpaceRanger42 wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:27 pm
Marlene wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:12 pm
Some manuals have rifle specific loads. A rifle can do more with slower powders.
I had heard that but I am still looking. I would assume the initial min and max charge wouldn't change but I am starting to get an inkling that not all powder is created equal. My .357 feels a little sluggish, but the same powder in my 9mm def has some pop to it. Apples and oranges I know, but it got me thinking.
Now, there are a zillion powders.

There are many "powder burn rate" charts. Here's one.

https://www.1967spud.com/wp-content/upl ... -chart.png

Make many loads with many powders to find the one you like in your rifle.

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Re: Barrel Length

#5 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:08 pm

That is a very helpful chart!
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Re: Barrel Length

#6 Post by senorgrand » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:13 pm

Also look at Ballistics By The Inch for info on how factory ammo performs out of a rifle barrel.

At the muzzle, 357 from a rifle will almost hit as hard as .223.
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Re: Barrel Length

#7 Post by Dogs4Ever » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:55 pm

What powder are you using in your .357 loads? If you are using a relatively fast powder then that's probably part of the issue. H110 is sort of the go to for higher velocity and being a relatively slow pistol powder should give pretty good velocity in a rifle. You could also try Accurate #9 or Ramshot Enforcer. I've had pretty good luck with all these but I don't have a .357 rifle. Still, these "magnum" powders should get you better results in a rifle.

Personally, I find this chart easier to read https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uplo ... -color.pdf

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Re: Barrel Length

#8 Post by eelj » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:13 am

My Lyman claims that the different powders used in handguns work just fine in rifles. Most accurate is either H110 or AA#9. The number 9 is very similar to 2400. What bullet type and weight are you using? Also what kind of target are going to shoot with this ammo, paper, steel, fluid filled tissue covered with hair?

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Re: Barrel Length

#9 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:53 pm

My latest load (that I have not tried out yet) is with HS6. I am loving it in my 9mm. The bulk of my 357 is with my last batch of Bullseye, 158g round nose fmj. I did do a small batch of plated bullets and I liked those way better but they are like effing gold around here.
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Re: Barrel Length

#10 Post by Dogs4Ever » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:35 am

SpaceRanger42 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:53 pm
My latest load (that I have not tried out yet) is with HS6. I am loving it in my 9mm. The bulk of my 357 is with my last batch of Bullseye, 158g round nose fmj. I did do a small batch of plated bullets and I liked those way better but they are like effing gold around here.
Bullseye is much too fast to get you anything close to a magnum load. Great for plinkers. I use Titegroup (similar burn rate) for my plinkers with plated bullets and out of my 6" blackhawk I get right around 1000 fps and they shoot kind of like a hot 22lr.

HS6 is a medium burn rate and good for what I'd call a warm load. I haven't used it much but depending on how it performs for you it might be a good choice but still won't really be a magnum load. I recently started using AA#7 which is a bit slower than HS6 and it gave me some of the best velocities I've seen. With a 158 gr JHP I was right at 1300 fps in my Blackhawk.

As mentioned before, if you really want to capitalize on the longer barrel of a rifle and load truly magnum rounds you'll need to look at the slowest pistol powders. H110, AA9, 2400, Enforcer would all be good options.

As for finding plated bullets, try X-treme online. I've had good luck with their bullets and they are pretty reasonable and they run deals fairly often. The other option would be polymer coated hard cast. I haven't tried those yet but they seem to be all the rage now. Won't lead the barrel and are pretty cheap.

ETA: oh, as for adjusting charges for longer barrels, I don't think that would be a good idea. The .357 rifle data I've looked at had pretty much the same charges as for handguns. It's really not about barrel length but chamber pressure. Once you max out the pressure you can't go higher just because the barrel is longer. Some guns will handle slightly over max charges but you need to work up carefully and I suspect most lever guns are not going to be tolerant of loads exceeding max. Powders like H110 will pretty much fill the case anyway.

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Re: Barrel Length

#11 Post by lurker » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:46 am

i load several different cartridges for rifle and pistol and looked for a powder i could use in multiple cartridges to simplify logistics.
stupid humans.

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Re: Barrel Length

#12 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:59 am

Dogs,
My current load for 357 out of my Henry lever gun feels very much like a hot 22. I have to be careful when I take it to the range as all the ROs want to play with it. I thought about powder coating the lead I have left but I don't want to clean the lube off of a couple of hundred slugs. I will take a look at your powder recommendations.
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Re: Barrel Length

#13 Post by Dogs4Ever » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Work up a nice hot load with H110 and maybe the ROs will think twice before shooting your loads again :)

Of course, even a hot .357 isn't likely to have much recoil in rifle.

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Re: Barrel Length

#14 Post by eelj » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:57 pm

If you can find a lb of 2400 give it a try. It's my favorite for both 357 and 44 mag standard loads. If you are into buying cast lead bullets you should also find cast bullets that are fitted with gas checks and give them a try.

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Re: Barrel Length

#15 Post by shinzen » Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:33 pm

I'll second Xtreme plated- you can generally get them for at least 5% off and they are really consistent (and cheap). FMJ will be pricey, but you can push them hotter- the plated bullets shouldn't be ran over midrange jacketed speeds.
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Re: Barrel Length

#16 Post by SpaceRanger42 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:03 pm

Dogs, it would take a really hot load to make the Henry BB have much recoil. It's a heavy rifle. probably the other reason the CAS folks don't care for it. EElj, I have been thinking about gas checks for my cast lead do you set those with the resizing dies?
Shin, I will check them out. Cost isn't as important to me as quality. Like I was annoyed that I couldn't find load data for Armscor slugs or for Montana Gold (it's possible they are the same) so I went with closest option. Then I laid hands on the slugs recommended in the load data (speer in this case) and I had to admit you could actually feel the quality difference.
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Re: Barrel Length

#17 Post by eelj » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:01 am

Certain molds drop a bullet with a small heel on the base and when you size it you put a check on and it gets crimped on tight when it is sized.

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