Page 1 of 2

My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:22 pm
by Eris
Today I had my first firearms realated injury - not my fault, at least. I was at the range and getting ready to shoot a string when the guys on both lanes next to me started rapid firing at the same time. I don't know which one of them it was, but one of them had a cartridge explode or something, because a piece of brass shrapnel came over the divider and struck my right hand. It was hot as Hell and made a small cut. Neither person shooting seemed to notice anything unusual because they both kept firing while I jumped back and squawked.

I wasn't really hurt, so after licking the wound to stop the blood flow I went back to shooting. I thought about talking to the guys and letting them know that one of them had a problem, but since I didn't know who was responsible and didn't see any further problems from them, I let it go.

Is this kind of thing common, where the brass shreds and is still ejected without jamming the gun?

Here's a picture of the shrapnel. It's about a 1/4 inch across.

Image

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:23 pm
by Marlene
You sure it’s a piece of case and not a piece of bounced jacket? Hard for me to tell from the pic.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:28 pm
by Eris
Marlene wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:23 pm
You sure it’s a piece of case and not a piece of bounced jacket? Hard for me to tell from the pic.
Good question. From looking at it it could be either.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:08 am
by SubRosa
Better yer hand than an eye.

I'm glad you're OK! :thumbup:

S u b R o s a

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:45 am
by Bisbee
Marlene's correct. That does not look like brass casing. Also makes more sense that it is a bullet jacket fragment. The asshats next to you were rapid firing and probably hit the metal target holder (they set pretty close up obviously) and shattered lead and copper jacket in all directions. Many shooting ranges have a no-rapid-fire policy for just this reason. SubRosa is also correct... that sucker could have easily come back at your face.

You were too nice not to have said something to the guys next to you. Glad you are OK, though. Go get yourself checked out for lead poisoning now for sucking on that wound.

And yes, you are also correct in thinking an exploded brass case is a very big deal. It would certainly have stopped the gun and likely injured the person holding it.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:55 am
by Eris
Bisbee wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:45 am
Go get yourself checked out for lead poisoning now for sucking on that wound.
I was actually planning on that anyway since I need to see my doctor for an annual checkup soon and to get my blood pressure meds renewed. I've been going to an indoor range every week for a year now, so I figure it's a prudent thing to check.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:19 am
by sikacz
What were they shooting at and range?

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:41 am
by FlyGuy
I had my first firearms related injury yesterday as well. I stabbed myself with a gun. :crazy:
I was cleaning the slide from my Beretta 92FS with CLP and a toothbrush and it slipped through my fingers. My reaction was trying to catch it with both hands. So, as I grasp it I ended up jamming the sharp as hell rear of it into my palm.
Learning moment nonetheless.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:30 pm
by spara
Eris wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:28 pm
Marlene wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:23 pm
You sure it’s a piece of case and not a piece of bounced jacket? Hard for me to tell from the pic.
Good question. From looking at it it could be either.
Were the targets steel or paper? If steel, then it's more likely a jacket.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:58 pm
by Eris
sikacz wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:19 am
What were they shooting at and range?
They were shooting at paper targets at about 5 yards (with a rifle, of course), but this was at Top Gun, so there were concrete floors and walls. The guy on my right is probably the culprit here, since I'd previously seen his shots hitting the gravel backstop just a few inches from the ceiling - he clearly wasn't a good shot and I'd not be surprised if he hit the walls or floor at some point.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm
by YankeeTarheel
5 yards with .... a rifle????? Even shooting a PCC you really shouldn't be less than 15 yards, IMHO, maybe 10 for a beginner. The ranges I go to DEMAND 15 yards minimum for rifle rounds and absolutely no rapid fire. One range (GFH, for those who know it) even make you use special targets on the 50 yard range, with a big black section on top you are NOT supposed to shoot at.

I s'pose you could have, maybe should have, called for a cease-fire and have the RSOs check you out.

My firearm injuries are kinda like my other working-on-stuff injuries--never with a round anywhere near the weapon.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:34 pm
by popgunn
I had a similar experience back around 1979. The shooter next to me had been having trouble closing the cylinder on a 38 S&W. Later, a piece of lead blew through the 3/4" plywood divider and hit my in the web of my left hand between my thumb and fore finger (he was on my left). It bled pretty good. A doctors office was right next door and the shooter paid for my treatment, which was minor. The cause was his gun was very dirty and the timing must have been off a little too, as a lot of lead was being shaved off one side of the forcing cone. Eventually it had to get blown off, and I was in the way. Luckily it did not hit me in the eye. The shooter was told to fix the gun or not come back.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:35 pm
by Eris
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm
5 yards with .... a rifle????? Even shooting a PCC you really shouldn't be less than 15 yards, IMHO, maybe 10 for a beginner. The ranges I go to DEMAND 15 yards minimum for rifle rounds and absolutely no rapid fire. One range (GFH, for those who know it) even make you use special targets on the 50 yard range, with a big black section on top you are NOT supposed to shoot at.
Yeah, it's kind of a strange range in that regard. It's 15 yards max, indoors, and they rent fully automatic weapons (though every time I've seen someone with a full auto, they have an RSO watching and guiding the renter).

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:45 pm
by SubRosa
Indeed stuff can bounce back...

SR

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:53 pm
by SailDesign
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm
5 yards with .... a rifle?????

<snip>
Wow! My range states a 7-yard minimum even with a pistol. We had one guy try 10 yards with a rifle, and he was asked to come back after he had had some lessons.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:39 pm
by YankeeTarheel
SailDesign wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:53 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm
5 yards with .... a rifle?????

<snip>
Wow! My range states a 7-yard minimum even with a pistol. We had one guy try 10 yards with a rifle, and he was asked to come back after he had had some lessons.
Yeah I figure if you can't hit the paper at 15 yards, either you are the firearm has a problem. But PCCs shouldn't have as rigorous requirements as rifle rounds, though they generate greater FPS than their handgun counterparts.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:59 pm
by sikacz
Eris wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:58 pm
sikacz wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:19 am
What were they shooting at and range?
They were shooting at paper targets at about 5 yards (with a rifle, of course), but this was at Top Gun, so there were concrete floors and walls. The guy on my right is probably the culprit here, since I'd previously seen his shots hitting the gravel backstop just a few inches from the ceiling - he clearly wasn't a good shot and I'd not be surprised if he hit the walls or floor at some point.
I'd point that out to the staff. I like that range, but if I end up near one the gun tourists I'll leave. The tourist types are there to make noise and shoot guns they either don't have or don't have access to.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:37 pm
by MaxwellG
Glad your're OK, idiots abound at public ranges, most don't allow rapid fire.
Asshats with rifles at 5 yards? These are the people that give the rest of us a bad name when they do clearly dangerous and stupid stuff.
I would have reported them.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:18 pm
by YankeeTarheel
MaxwellG wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:37 pm
Glad your're OK, idiots abound at public ranges, most don't allow rapid fire.
Asshats with rifles at 5 yards? These are the people that give the rest of us a bad name when they do clearly dangerous and stupid stuff.
I would have reported them.
Yup, it's like idiots who mix alcohol with firearms. Darwin Award candidates.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:19 am
by SaneConservative
That’s jacket. I would have said something to them with the intention of education. I have witnessed jacket come back short distance from hard targets. It’s common.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:26 pm
by NuJudge
Rebounded jacket fragment. This is not unusual on a range with hard armor traps. It can also happen on ranges with soft backstops where they develop a hard spot. I used to shoot bowling pins on a range with hard armor traps, and one of the RO's had a large bullet fragment come back hard enough to pierce the skin. The range's insurance company heard about the injury and changed their policy, no longer allowing bowling pin shooting.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:13 pm
by SpaceRanger42
Glad you are ok, a little amazed anyone is drilling at 5 yards with a rifle. Also, I agree with others, should have said something. Maybe it was an ammo choice that contributed to the issue. Also one of the reasons I always try to get the end stall when I go to the indoor range. I don't care for having people on my left.
Granted, there was a guy doing rifle drills with an AR-10 the last time I was at the indoor range, his target was probably about ten yards and from four stalls over he was making everyone's targets shift and jump for a good seven yards. I was doing pistol drills at a touch over that. It was annoying. I think the RSO had a word with the dude.
My dream is to have a piece of property like you tuber Hickock45. Step off the porch and I am on my own private 100 yrd range :)

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:57 pm
by spara
I get hit with frag pretty regularly even with the USPSA rule of a minimum distance of 23 feet. Sometimes it draws blood, usually just a welt. The worse injury I've had was my own fault, I had an ejected shell bounce off the stall and pop behind my glasses, toasted my cornea a bit but I recovered in a few days. Now I always wear a hat when shooting.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:20 pm
by TrueTexan
Ranges I shot at would not allow rapid fire, both require at least 2 seconds between shots.

Re: My first firearms related injury

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:27 pm
by SpaceRanger42
spara wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:57 pm
I get hit with frag pretty regularly even with the USPSA rule of a minimum distance of 23 feet. Sometimes it draws blood, usually just a welt. The worse injury I've had was my own fault, I had an ejected shell bounce off the stall and pop behind my glasses, toasted my cornea a bit but I recovered in a few days. Now I always wear a hat when shooting.
That's not uncommon at cowboy matches too. One of the reasons I lost any interest in the game all the old conservative folks who insist on close targets don't seem to care about spall coming back at the shooters/observers.