Laying off

Discussions about traditional "arms".

Moderators: admin, Inquisitor, ForumModerator, WebsiteContent

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I've been playing archery for decades, two to three times a week. But about five years ago I began to develop some pains in my elbows and shoulders. I'm 60, staring at 61 now, but back then I did not think I was growing older. Now I know I am. So when I developed those pains, I decided to adopt "laying off" for about ten days, about four times a year--about every three months.

I'm laying off now. It's been about a week, but I don't think I'll shoot arrows until this weekend. I know I need time to rest my joints and tendons. I think that's where the pain comes from. But I know that if I do this "laying off" business every so often, the pain goes away and doesn't come back for, say, three more months.

I'm itchin', but I distract myself in various ways. For example, I've left my .45-70 dirty and will address it on Thursday. After the Chabot trip, I cleaned my Mosin that next morning, as I'd shot corrosive ammo. But the big guy, I was shooting non corrosive primers, so I could leave him 'till the next morning comes, as it were.

Archers: pay attention to small pains and rest your weary body parts. You'll have more fun for longer if you do.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I shot ten arrows from each side Sunday afternoon, and I feel no ill effects. I also repaired my chin up bar and did some. Feels OK this morning.

I don't want to hurt myself being impatient.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
shinzen
Site Admin
Posts: 19373
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by shinzen »

The older I get, the longer the repairs seem to take. You doing any Glucosamine/Chondroitin/Fish oil supplements?
Image

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Nah. I just eat a balanced diet, a habit I unbalance with beer. Sure felt good to shoot again. I think it was about ten days, but that was too long. Got in a short range trip, though. Maybe another on Tuesday--doing some testing.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I only shot six from each side today, as I'd been doing quite a bit of lifting and carrying in a project supervised by my wife and sister--a tag team of fiddle de dee!. Enough! ;-) It was neat to hit the gallon jug with all six from each side after a week of doing other things.

I knew I'd be half a bubble off if I just whipped off and shot. I stood there and watched through my form in my mind a few times, paying attention to my release and follow through. Took my time. Shot. Felt good.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

So, it's a couple of months after the first post.

I've added some ideas to "laying off." Found out this morning when shooting.

I'd finished 13 arrows with the recurve and was about to move to the compound, when I got an over whelming urge to shoot another 13. Then I'd do two sets with the compound. I was feeling good, shooting well, beautiful weather--what's to lose? Ah. That would be double my normal workout. I realized then that "laying off" also means to be aware of how many more shots should be shot that day. I opted for five more from each side.

Maybe in two or three days I'll do the same again, working up slowly to 26 on each side, 52 total. One is 48#, the other 54#, so for kicks and giggles I just multiplied 50# times 52, which is an approximation of the pounds I'd mess with with my old bod. 2600 pounds. I think I'll do that in two weeks.

I've concluded that "laying off" also includes paying attention to desires and then adjusting things accordingly. Always a good plan anyway.

Don't quit: even in inclement weather, we've seen that quality practice can still take place.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I'm going to shoot the same amount as I did on Friday, today. I'll do that for a month or so, then I'll increase it by five arrows again.

On Saturday I felt where I'd used muscles the most. There was a straight line of muscle tiredness from my arm pit to the end of my rib cage on both sides--lats. Then in my left arm, there was tiredness in the muscles on the outside of my forearm. I'm sure this is from drawing the recurve--or from releasing; don't know yet but will watch. Though the recurve is a 48# and the compound a 54#, clearly it takes more strength to draw the recurve, as we know that only the first half or so of a compound draw is difficult: once I get to the top of the cam, it gets easier; I can hold the compound at full draw until I get bored rather than tired. Not so with the recurve, which I have to let fly before I'm bored.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
Pointfocus
Helpful Contributor
Posts: 91
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:31 am
Location: S.E. Ohio
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by Pointfocus »

CDFingers wrote:So, it's a couple of months after the first post.

I've concluded that "laying off" also includes paying attention to desires and then adjusting things accordingly. Always a good plan anyway.

Don't quit: even in inclement weather, we've seen that quality practice can still take place.

CDFingers
Same thing is happening with me. When I get the urge to shoot the recurve, it's time. It happens about 3 to 5 days depending on how many shots. I'm up to around 25 to 35 arrows now. Also I'm mixing indoors with outdoors now. I normaly mark the distance with oranage marking on the grass. Tomorrow there is snow everywhere so get the measuring tape out. Ugg!

Keep shooting,
Pointfocus
I remarked, I was trying to keep relaxed, the Zen Master replied: 'That's just the trouble, you make an effort to think about it. Concentrate on your breathing, as if you had nothing else to do. (Quote modified to fit.)
Zen in the Art of Archery.

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

As it so happens, it appears I'm laying off. No pains, but traffic and weather in the archery range.

In the off times, I've repaired almost all my non functional arrows. Most vanes/feathers, nocks, tips, that sort of thing. Busted only one carbon arrow in the last six months, so that was cool.

Now I have a bunch of arrows, so I'll have to work back into regular shooting, as long as I can clear the range. I've been pulling and slowly releasing the recurve on both sides, so my muscles have not deteriorated.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Shot just five from each side today, from half my usual distance. So, this was from about 14 yards into my Yuban can.

At least I got all five in the can from each side. Sheesh! Glad I decided to shoot from half the distance--I might've sent one to the next county with the compound. It felt good to shoot, now that the hot times are likely past--heck, it got so I'd break a sweat just setting up the bag. Now it's down into the mid 90's and lower, so cool, as it were.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Upped it yesterday to a dozen.

I'm starting to get bored with the compound. I find the recurve much more fun.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

It appears over the years that there exist two periods per year when somehow I lay off. For this year, both periods have now lapsed. I just listen to my body because I want to keep shooting until the last few days of my life.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Here it is about mid December. Rain is coming. Seems about the right time to lay off. So I unstrung the recurve. I think he heaved a small sigh of relaxed relief. I've been shooting well, and it's averaged twice a week. Maybe about time to take a breather.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Nearing the end of January, and I needed to shoot. I shot four from each side, and a bonus arrow, small narrative about which follows the two pics.

Image
90
Image

New readers will want to know that I shoot from both sides: holding the recurve in my left hand and my compound in my right. My plan was to shoot four from each side, wait a week, and assess the effect upon my body. Here is what I thought.

It takes about ten years to build up the muscles necessary for good recurve shooting. I'd done that some time ago. I wondered how much practice I needed to keep sharp while not wearing out my shoulder joints and what not.

I'd been reading about long bows for my project, and I've found lots of references to various kings making laws where you have to practice your long bow every week in the park or where ever, tournaments and further on down the road with that. I'd also been reading about Ishi, a local stone age Yahi Indian, and his archery behaviors. He was good. So I ran this experiment, laying off like five maybe six weeks.

These above are the first nine shots. They went like this. Point of aim was center of the jug, shot from twenty yards. I shot the compound first, with aluminum arrows. You see the good group low and to the right. Then I switched to the recurve, and shot the four yellow arrows. All were high and a bit scattered. With the last arrow, I felt I'd remembered how to hold at full draw while aiming, so I shot the last arrow, the green fletched carbon arrow with the recurve. Exactly at point of aim.

My plan is to asses and shoot next weekend, barring rain. Hey: I'll take the rain. We're dry up here as Rand Paul's humor.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I started out slowly a month ago. About four shooting days into it I saw that my accuracy had recovered pretty nicely with every arrow shot going into the jug, and I'd not worked to a full quiver yet. I recalled reading about one of the English Kings mandating long bow practice on Sundays in parks.

I'm getting older, and I can feel when I shoot many arrows at a session. I don't see any increase in accuracy for that wear and tear on my shoulder joints. I do have fun shooting. So there's a trade off. How long can I continue to shoot, that is have fun shooting, if I wear out my shoulder joints?

I began to run an experiment mid January, and shot five arrows from each side twice a week. I have no pain at all the entire week. All ten arrows go in the jug. I'm going to do a few months of this and then do full quiver, split half and half with each arm, and see how I feel. I'm going for 'being able to shoot arrows for the rest of my life' compared to 'having tons of fun until I can't use my arms any more.'

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

It turns out that accuracy suffers if you don't shoot more than ten arrows at a time. Today's session showed me I have to up my number of shots. But I'm going to do it slowly so as not to get too tight.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Six from each side, total twelve. Twice a week. If I pay attention, my accuracy is good. I think I used to use several shots to get in the groove. Now I have to groove it quick. Good groups today. I'll keep at this pattern for a couple more weeks to see what develops.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Shooting so few arrows each time makes each shot somehow more precious. Somehow my last shoot on Saturday was really good from both sides, tight grips. Concentrated on the release hand: I sort of guided the arrow with my release hand as it retreated along the same line as the flight path of the arrow, while my eye was tight on the target. I pick an existing arrow hole to aim at in my bleach jug.

With each shot being so precious I enjoyed each shot even as it flew. There's something there for me. I want to get it every time.

The weekend was cool: arrows on Saturday, bullets on Sunday for the Postal Match.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
Sonofagun
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 7054
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:43 pm
Location: No Good Pizza Here, Ga.

Re: Laying off

Post by Sonofagun »

Would you consider switching up? Could be a new good challenge during your down time and relieving the itch while relieving your strong side. Maybe start a new itch.

Edit; Opps, that's what I get for reading threads from bottom to top. Your the man. I've not tried more than a few time to shoot my weak side.

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Last spring I had done a stupid while pruning from a ladder, and I injured my left shoulder. Since I shoot from both sides, some options presented themselves. I could not draw the compound, which I hold in my right, as that motion strained the injury. But I could hold my recurve out straight with my left hand, holding the recurve. So, since last spring, I've laid-off from holding my compound in my right.

I had a plan. I executed the plan. Today I was able to use it.

About six weeks ago during practice I would hold the recurve in my right and draw back about 25 percent--once, then relax it slowly. I did that one week, then increased the number of pulls. If any discomfort in the shoulder, I'd stop it and go slower that next time About two weeks ago I had worked up to drawing all the way back twice and relaxing. Last week I had worked that to five full draws and gentle relaxing it. So today I used the compound for the first time in all those months.

Well, at least I didn't miss the bag. :roflmao:

I started out shooting six from the compound in my right then six with the recurve in my left. Go-got the arrows. Raked some leaves. Then I did it again, six and six. The first six with the compound were low and scattered, but in the bag. I realized I was not following through, so I called upon the idea I picked up from the Bullseye shooting here at the Liberal Gun Club: I put my awareness into my holding hand, like with a pistol. Nailed the next three arrows. So, there's a cross over for me with archery and pistol shooting. Neat-o.

And patience is a thing when you're old: take your time to heal. I'm going gentle-like for at least another month, but so far, so good with laying-off one side and not the other to allow an injury to heal.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
Buck13
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3331
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:21 pm
Location: Puget Sound Convergence Zone
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by Buck13 »

CDFingers wrote:I shot ten arrows from each side Sunday afternoon, and I feel no ill effects.
I think you are the only person I've ever heard of shooting both sides. To avoid imbalance, I suppose? That does seem like a good idea.

An excuse to buy a new bow!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

ImageImage

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I wanted the muscles to develop equally: We had a friend when I was a kid who was a chiropractor. Loved archers, professionally. I think they bought her her mountain cabin. So I schemed to thwart her evil plans, so I shoot from both sides. Not till I became an adult with disposable income did I accumulate all these guns and bows. :laugh:

Ideally the new bow should pretty much match the other I think. I have matching compounds at 54 pounds, one for the left and one for the right, but I don't shoot the compound held in my left. Recurve is 48 lbs. I think everything about drawing holding and aiming is different between the recurve and compound. I think doing both from the same side would strain my already maxed out cranial capabilities.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Circumstances have laid me off, it appears. Last time I shot was end of November. I broke my flipper and haven't gone out to Deer Creek Archery yet to score one.

http://deercreekarchery.biz/

I mean, I could save forty cents going to Sportsman's Warehouse or what not. I won't, as I want that forty cents to stay with the independent business in this town.

I've been like eight or nine days without shooting something. This is not good. I may have to shoot the Bullseye match a day early...

I will go get a new flipper and a spare today when I pick up the LGC patches and order the new rainbow stars ones. We'll see how loudly Bullseye calls me.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

Days turn to weeks, weeks into a month. Time waits for no person.

Today I replaced the flipper. Rain and circumstances conspired to keep me from shooting. Last five or so days I've been gettin' the urge to draw the bow.

I wonder whether Ishi had these thoughts while hanging out in his bark house during wet winters. Not shooting arrows, but making them. Repairing gear. Making arrowheads. Replacing flippers--nah. That's so 20th century. He was Stone Age, totally controlled by the natural world. He'd be in his bark house scarfing smoked salmon or smoked deer meat, eating acorn pancakes and breads. Staying warm and dry. When the weather got better, all his gear would be squared away.

So now my bow is squared away. It is still not strung. I have school papers on the floor in front of the gear closet, likely for the last time before a new semester. This new semester will be my last semester, followed by retirement. Oh yeah. That's the plan. We know about plans. I'll post on the unstring thread when I string it. I have a little stringer I use to string the bow with so I don't snap off a tip pressing against the floor or something stupid.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 20979
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: Laying off

Post by CDFingers »

I've found that if I've laid off for a while, more than a few weeks, it is good to get back in slowly. I shot on the weekend, one quiver, and just today, one quiver. No pains. I could feel it this morning from the weekend.

It's going to rain maybe for a week, and I might not get in another session for some time. I think it's better to shoot too little when getting back in than shooting too much in an effort to make up for something illusory. Muscles adapt.

CDFingers
ImageImage
Turn on channel six, the President comes on the news,
Says, "I get no satisfaction, that's why I sing the blues."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest