Genealogy?

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I'm not super-hard-core into it, as my uncle was/aunt is, but I do poke around in the family tree just to get a better sense of where I come from.

My uncle was heavily into SAR/Sons of the Confederacy and presented my brother and me with the trees he'd put together. He wanted us to join SAR/DAR because he thought it might help our career prospects (seriously). I'm a student of history and know that genealogy can turn into a series of rabbit holes designed to show someone's exceedingly distant link to Napoleon or whomever. But the more direct lineage and the stories of those people's lives are what really interest me.

We have a long history of armed service, pretty much unbroken since the Revolutionary War. That's interesting to me because it explains why my dad and uncle (and my cousins, and their kids) served. I skipped that because I wasn't willing to lie about being a lesbian in the 80s. (Several friends of mine did serve in assorted branches, anyway, it turns out.) But I do respect it. And I think my family history shaped my attitudes toward being willing to pick up a gun and defend my country if "they" ever came to the door.

Sigh.

Anyway, any of you out there fiddle with this stuff? And wouldn't it be interesting to try and figure out what arms our relatives might have used at different times?

My dad has a photo of him and a buddy in Korea, checking out a rifle near a dead Chinese soldier (not in pic). And I suppose he probably carried an M1 Garand rifle, if what I've seen recently at CMP applies. I'll have to ask him.

His stepfather was a Merchant Marine (chief engineer) with a Naval Gunner commission. Was torpedoed twice, didn't come back up the second time.

And my (now deceased) uncle was in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam twice. (My dad joked that he was a "slow learner.") He also apparently wore a Revolutionary War uniform as part of his SAR duties. They served as an honor guard at his funeral. They had flags but I forget whether they or the Army did the gun salute. I don't know whether he did reenactments or anything like that.

On my mom's side, I know my grandmother used to carry a derringer. She had been a probation officer in Texas. She and my uncle were always trying to give me guns when I was younger because "you're a woman! Alone! In the city!" The horror! :laugh:

My cousins and their kids have weapons out the wazoo. Ex-military, LEOs, NRA instructors, competitive shooting, hunting, etc.

I'm going to ask around and see what I can find out about who owned what.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Genealogy?

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I find genealogy interesting though I don't think that associations with groups like SAR/DAR are as important today as they once were. Sort of depends on the industry I s'pose. If you were going into law enforcement or some branch of government it would probably look pretty good on a resume. Most corporate hiring managers under 50 likely don't care. In the 80s and 90s I remember all of my friends wanted to get into Demolay and similar junior masonic organizations but that was all about networking and building up that "good ol boy" brotherhood. I think I read 1984 way to early in life as I have always been suspicious of such things.
Never smile too big, the gods may mistake it for hubris.

Re: Genealogy?

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I'd like to establish a couple relatives...one was supposedly an indian chieftess and the other was the first woman to have a statute errected in her honor in America. She was famous because of all the native americans she scalped...
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Re: Genealogy?

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Don't feel bad. I had relatives who fought on both sides of WWII. My father was wounded in Italy in '43 during the landings at Salerno, his brother was shot down and killed the same year over Sardinia. Both fighting the Germans. His mother's (my grandmother's) first cousin, still in die Deutschland, lost two boys on the Eastern Front to the Red Army. Explore away, everybody's wingin' it...
"Only voluntary, inspired self-restraint can raise man above the world stream of materialism. Our lives will have to change if we want to save life from self-destruction." ~ Alexander Solzhenitzyn

Re: Genealogy?

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Real genealogy - starting with you and working backwards - has no rabbit holes. There are, however, brick walls aplenty. The rabbit holes show up when, as you say, someone starts with a Famous Person and tries to work forward. A wise genealogist, professional or family, knows that your family isn't really interesting until you find a horse thief. Those who try to deny or even erase the horse thieves are as bad as the people who try working forward from the Famous Person.

I haven't found a horse thief yet. We do, however, have a lying sea captain (which in itself may be another lie). If sure if he'd come inland he'd have stolen a horse at one time or another.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Re: Genealogy?

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On my dad's side of the family, an ancestor was that last person in Bloomington Indiana to be hung for stealing horses.
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Re: Genealogy?

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Very different for me.
My grandfather, born in Elizabethgrad, now Kirovgrad, in Ukraine, was arrested at 17 distributing Menshevik (Socialist) pamphlets and sent to Siberia for 5 years by the Tsar. When the Tsarevich was born there was a general amnesty and he left for America within weeks.
He met a pretty woman 8 years older than himself here, who had been odd being 25 and unmarried and educated when her father, who was set to be the next Rebbe in the village but became an Atheist, sent her to America. They lived together, had a child, who died, then married in 1911 and were together till he died long before I was born. She loved him till the day she died, 28 years later.
That same father, my great-grandfather, bribed a guard in a Romanian refugee camp with a bottle of (cheap) wine to take his little motherless granddaughter, my father's cousin, for a walk on a nice Sunday afternoon. The walk ended at his daughter's house in Brooklyn...

My mother had a miserable childhood and her mother and her uncle and aunts were all miserable people, except for one uncle, who was always kind to her. "Uncle Mikey"? He was in the Jewish mafia and could only come into New York on Sundays (not sure why, and neither was Mom).

Families are weird, aren't they?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Genealogy?

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My father in law was seriously into genealogy. 4 books in the Library of Congress and when he died, a dumpster was filled with boxes of his research notes. He ran across a reference to what could be one of my ancestors, but spelling is phonetic and varied when researching. The one he found for me was a Marqiuis, Equeery to the Queen of France, and a Grand Marshall of the armies of France. Formally, you can call me "Your Lordship". Interestingly enough, my ancestors and many of my distant relatives are German. Bodies buried in Europe on both sides of the war. One, cousin Willy, was a WW2 ace, shooting down 3 Spitfires, 2 Hurricanes, and several others before transferring to Army Group Center and flying cover. He learned the hard way that the Russians shoot back, and was buried quietly. Also interesting one distant cousin was a Playboy centerfold.
I am pretty sure my family name is a place name, derived from the estate they worked on before leaving the mother land.
I did the DNA thing and am as Northern European as you can get. Touch of Balkan blood, little Laplander. My mother family was Swede, Dads family was German from what is now Poland.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: Genealogy?

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dougb wrote:My father in law was seriously into genealogy. 4 books in the Library of Congress and when he died, a dumpster was filled with boxes of his research notes. He ran across a reference to what could be one of my ancestors, but spelling is phonetic and varied when researching. The one he found for me was a Marqiuis, Equeery to the Queen of France, and a Grand Marshall of the armies of France. Formally, you can call me "Your Lordship". Interestingly enough, my ancestors and many of my distant relatives are German. Bodies buried in Europe on both sides of the war. One, cousin Willy, was a WW2 ace, shooting down 3 Spitfires, 2 Hurricanes, and several others before transferring to Army Group Center and flying cover. He learned the hard way that the Russians shoot back, and was buried quietly. Also interesting one distant cousin was a Playboy centerfold. No, I can not introduce you.
I am pretty sure my family name is a place name, derived from the estate they worked on before leaving the mother land.
I did the DNA thing and am as Northern European as you can get. Touch of Balkan blood, little Laplander. My mother family was Swede, Dads family was German from what is now Poland.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: Genealogy?

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:laugh: "Your Lordship, Dug-Bee" nah...doesn't wash! :lol:

Reminds me of the King and the Duke in "Huckleberry Finn"! (no insult intended, Dougb, just messin' !) :thumbup:
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Genealogy?

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Great-Grandpa: “A jackleg preacher and crooked accountant” (Dad) who left his wife for the church secretary. They apparently also took a jaunt to Havana.

Great-great Grandpa or great-uncle, I forget: appears to have been involved in “breaking up dice games” (read: likely racist chain-gang supplying) in Alabama (a present investigation of mine).

His dad and uncles were CSA; one died in a Yankee POW camp, as I recall. My mom’s side were Union.

Both sides from Pennsylvania, originally. One of the early settlers on Dad’s side from the Palatinate was killed in an Indian raid.

There’s also supposedly a Mohawk great-great Aunt; her Anglicized name makes me think she wound up in an Indian School.

And a bazillion other stories.
I’m NOT the NRA

Re: Genealogy?

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HotheadPaisan wrote:Great-Grandpa: “A jackleg preacher and crooked accountant” (Dad) who left his wife for the church secretary. They apparently also took a jaunt to Havana.

Great-great Grandpa or great-uncle, I forget: appears to have been involved in “breaking up dice games” (read: likely racist chain-gang supplying) in Alabama (a present investigation of mine).

His dad and uncles were CSA; one died in a Yankee POW camp, as I recall. My mom’s side were Union.

Both sides from Pennsylvania, originally. One of the early settlers on Dad’s side from the Palatinate was killed in an Indian raid.

There’s also supposedly a Mohawk great-great Aunt; her Anglicized name makes me think she wound up in an Indian School.

And a bazillion other stories.

Cool story!
3 of my 4 grandparents were immigrants. All 4 of my wife's grandparents were immigrants.
My one grandmother who was born here, the daughter of immigrants, was a miserable human being. How my mom grew up to be a (relatively) normal, and fairly loving human being (though not very empathetic) is probably the closest thing I've experienced to a miracle, except maybe the '69 Mets.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Genealogy?

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I poked around with it for a while. I was contacted by a distant cousin in England to add the American branch of the family to his research. He sent me the whole tree he had tracked down and boy, was I ever shocked. He had traced the family all the way back to 8th century Norway. Up to that time I only had data going back to 11th century Normandy. No pirates or horse thieves but plenty of career military, clergy, and prison wardens as well as a writer or two. My own Great-Grandfather emigrated from England in the late 19th century trying his hand at being a sheep rancher, a cowboy, and finally a horticulturist in Western Montana devising new varieties of apples and fathering 13 living children. Meanwhile the rest of the direct line was dying out because they weren't reproducing. So to put this in weapons terms my family took part in shield walls armed with spear and axe, eventually moved to the Brown Bess and Martini-Henrys and finished off with M1917, Garands and M2 carbines, and finally M16a1s.
Cynistoicureanism: The world view best expressed by "I can't trust 'em any farther then I can throw 'em, There's nothing I can do about it anyway, So let's have a drink".

Re: Genealogy?

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I was on a genealogy kick some years ago. Interesting how family stories so often are kinda-sorta true, but *not* the whole story. Yes, I found Charlemagne (who, due to small population and inbreeding is in every Euro-descended person’s tree). The WASP side of the family was easy to track, while the Polish side was considerably harder due to lost records and language.

I found Quakers that gave up their pacifism to fight for the Union and end slavery. I found grandpas that fought each other in the *same* Revolutionary War battles (“Come out and fight, damn ye!”). I’m eligible for both SAR *and* Loyalist Society, and it amuses me to contemplate joining both in order to say “God Bless America AND God Save the Queen!”

No horse thieves, but did find an old story of a plucky then-teenage Quaker grandma that confronted a pack of thieves gathered drunkenly around their campfire. They had stolen a saddle off the family wagon on their way West to Kentucky and later the Indiana Territory to escape the violence of the Revolution: she walked right into their camp and shamed them into giving it back (“You should be ashamed of yourselves”).

Colorful stuff. No matter who you are you have some great stories to tell.
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Re: Genealogy?

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My mother-in-law is super into it all. She traced her own lineage as far back as she could, so then she started in on her husband's. They've found a few unsavory characters, but also lots of little interesting facts, like an ancestor who was one of the early beer brewers in San Francisco during the Gold Rush.

I do know my grandmother did a fair bit of research before she died, found my paternal line going back to the German Palatines in the Hudson River Valley, as well as a forbearer who fought at Valley Forge, wrong side for SAR though. The most important bit of information for me, was that my first name goes back 300 years as the middle name of my direct ancestors.
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person."
-Willa Cather

Re: Genealogy?

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My brother did one of those DNA tests and found out, no surprise, we are mostly Eastern European, but 8% Italian and Greek. Traces of Asian.
Now here's the funny part: I keep trying to explain that our great-uncle travelling through Siberia and China has NOTHING to do with the traces of Asian DNA but he insists...Sometimes I wonder about the guy--he just turned 70.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Genealogy?

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:57 pm My brother did one of those DNA tests and found out, no surprise, we are mostly Eastern European, but 8% Italian and Greek. Traces of Asian.
Now here's the funny part: I keep trying to explain that our great-uncle travelling through Siberia and China has NOTHING to do with the traces of Asian DNA but he insists...Sometimes I wonder about the guy--he just turned 70.
I did one of those tests, and found a half-sister 6 months later.... She never knew we were related although we've known each other most of our lives.... I guess my Dad and her Mom had a "thing" and no-one knew, or told. Her "folks" were married to the day her "Dad" died, and very happy together. She's still in a bit of shock.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: Genealogy?

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DNA is about all I've done. Family tree, I have a rough idea of parts of it for my dad's side. But, records might lie, the only proof you really have is in a spit of saliva. None of those records gave any clue that both my parents were third cousins to each other or that my wife is also a cousin. With my wife, I do have one family name in common. Perhaps trying to piece together both the paper trail and the spit trail might be interesting. I do find the genetic relationships of people in general more interesting than individual aspects of relatives. There's probably not much of a paper trail left except for old church records that in some instances still go back to 1700's. DNA side it turns out I have plenty of cousins in the USA.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Genealogy?

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The best thing about widespread DNA analysis is thinking about all the white supremacists learning about their undesirable blood lines, and having to try to reconcile that with their hateful ideology.

I wish it had been around in the 1920s and 30s.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: Genealogy?

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My DNA test results didn't yield much I didn't already know except for one proportion. Mostly Northern European and British Isles with a dab of Native American (a French Canadian trapper married a local Native American girl). Nothing new there. But 10% from the Iberian Peninsula? Hmmm... I knew there was a Spaniard back there somewhere, either a war bride some Redcoat brought home from the Continent or a shipwrecked sailor from the Armada, but 10%? Maybe the trapper was from SW France.
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

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