BAKING

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This seems a knowledgeable group. My daughter is allergic to a lot of store bought mixes, e.g. waffle, sopapilla, etc. We've narrowed it to something about the baking powder. Store brand baking powder affects her, Clabber Girl does not. Any thoughts?

Re: BAKING

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What's her allergist have to say?

I'm assuming that a specialist has been consulted, as you've narrowed the response to baking powder. With your observation that she doesn't react adversely to one brand compared to others suggests that the reaction is far more basic (no pun intended) than the sum of the parts.

All baking powder does is create CO2 in the dough or batter causing it to leaven. It's an acid - base compound that requires moisture to react. Identifying the specific component that is the allergen shouldn't be terribly difficult.

Which is what the allergist is for.

My money would be on cornstarch. The most common allergen known to humankind is corn. Cornstarch is the common component used as a "buffering agent"...the stuff that keeps the acid and base components from reacting absent moisture.
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Re: BAKING

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rolandson wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:40 am My money would be on cornstarch. The most common allergen known to humankind is corn. Cornstarch is the common component used as a "buffering agent"...the stuff that keeps the acid and base components from reacting absent moisture.
Hmm. She doesn't have problems with other forms of corn, but it's a possibility. We don't use a lot of it otherwise. I would think most baking powder ingredients would largely be similar. I'm thinking it's a cheap preservative or anticaking agent used in the offbrand.

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Mine would be on cornstarch as well. Sometimes the form matters. Clabber Girl doesn't have any additives, while the store brands usually contain that as the third ingredient.
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58Hawken wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:57 am I would think most baking powder ingredients would largely be similar.
Oh...no, far from it. The chemistry of the reaction baking powder is intended to produce is really rather complex. And there are an endless number of compounds that can create it. Not knowing which compounds are being used complicates identifying the source of the allergy.

Which is where the physician comes in. There are simple tests the allergist performs that are amazing in their accuracy in determining the cause of problems.
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Re: BAKING

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Davis Baking Powder contains:
Cornstarch
Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda)
Sodium Aluminum Sulfate
Monocalcium Phosphate

Clabber Girl has exactly the same 4 ingredients.

You could try substituting Baking Soda and either vinegar or lemon juice to be the acid to go with the base Sodium Bicarb.
Or Baking Soda and Cream of Tartar.

Rumford Baking Powder leaves out the Sodium Aluminum Sulfate. Have you tried that?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: BAKING

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Here's the thing about allergies...
They have two phases: sensitization and reaction.

Unfortunately, the reaction part can get problematic. It can worsen with repeated exposure.

I got stung by bees and hornets as a kid. Used to be that it would hurt a little, maybe swell, then ...meh. Until the last sting. Got nailed on the hand, within an hour my arm had swelled to twice its normal size. After two hours I was having difficulty breathing.

Now, I carry an epi-pen wherever I go. All the time, 24/7/365. I keep one in every section of my house because those little fucking bastards can be anywhere...as a kid I stepped on a yellow jacket in my living room in the middle of January...and it got me.

What might be an annoying, bothersome response with one exposure can become life threatening with the next.
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: BAKING

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rolandson wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:07 pm Here's the thing about allergies...
They have two phases: sensitization and reaction.

Unfortunately, the reaction part can get problematic. It can worsen with repeated exposure.

I got stung by bees and hornets as a kid. Used to be that it would hurt a little, maybe swell, then ...meh. Until the last sting. Got nailed on the hand, within an hour my arm had swelled to twice its normal size. After two hours I was having difficulty breathing.

Now, I carry an epi-pen wherever I go. All the time, 24/7/365. I keep one in every section of my house because those little fucking bastards can be anywhere...as a kid I stepped on a yellow jacket in my living room in the middle of January...and it got me.

What might be an annoying, bothersome response with one exposure can become life threatening with the next.
Yeah, that's my concern. Usually, she's okay so long as she only has it once in a while. E.g. Pop-tarts once in a while. If she has it multiple times successively, she'll break out in a rash. Like several days of Pop Tarts or eating sopapillas for dinner and then leftovers for a couple of days. I'd like to isolate it help her know what to be aware of. Her mom has a pretty bad shellfish allergy, so who knows how the sensitivity carried down.

The weird thing is that she never has a problem with Clabber Girl. We use it for making stuff from scratch when we know the mix might be a problem.

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rolandson wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:34 pm Tell me a physician is involved...yes?
We've discussed it with her primary, but she's got a lot of other more pressing health issues before we see a specialist. It just occurred to me last night when she was baking muffins and I reminded her to use the Clabber Girl.

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:25 pm Davis Baking Powder contains:
Cornstarch
Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda)
Sodium Aluminum Sulfate
Monocalcium Phosphate

Clabber Girl has exactly the same 4 ingredients.

You could try substituting Baking Soda and either vinegar or lemon juice to be the acid to go with the base Sodium Bicarb.
Or Baking Soda and Cream of Tartar.

Rumford Baking Powder leaves out the Sodium Aluminum Sulfate. Have you tried that?
The store brand (Kroger) I identified as causing the reaction has the same ingredients as the Clabber Girl that doesn't cause a reaction so I don't think it's the aluminum compound.

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58Hawken wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:54 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:25 pm Davis Baking Powder contains:
Cornstarch
Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda)
Sodium Aluminum Sulfate
Monocalcium Phosphate

Clabber Girl has exactly the same 4 ingredients.

You could try substituting Baking Soda and either vinegar or lemon juice to be the acid to go with the base Sodium Bicarb.
Or Baking Soda and Cream of Tartar.

Rumford Baking Powder leaves out the Sodium Aluminum Sulfate. Have you tried that?
The store brand (Kroger) I identified as causing the reaction has the same ingredients as the Clabber Girl that doesn't cause a reaction so I don't think it's the aluminum compound.
Rashes and hives suggest something serious.

And I'm not a physician, so I wouldn't think to pretend to be one. But...I am a chemist, at least that's what my baccalaureate degree is. I can definitely say that "I think" and "I don't think" are about as far removed from certainty as one can get.

An allergist will be able to say with near certainty what the source of the issue is.

You did ask.
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I agree with rolandson, allergy testing would help, it's just a scratch test on the arms or back. One of the categories is food allergies and allergists have many types of allergens they use to see if there is a response. The allergist is right there in case there is an extreme response, they can administer epinephrine. It's rare though I've seen it. Testing will benefit her long term, so she knows in daily life what to avoid.

Physicians can run a blood test for allergies, but it's not as accurate as a skin test. Check your health insurance and see if allergy testing is included. I've know two people who were allergic to shell fish, they both carried benedryl in case they unintentionally ate some.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:48 pm One of the categories is food allergies and allergists have many types of allergens they use to see if there is a response. The allergist is right there in case there is an extreme response, they can administer epinephrine. It's rare though I've seen it. Testing will benefit her long term, so she knows in daily life what to avoid.
Should be a fun endeavor. I get so exhausted with explaining the idiosyncrasies of my daughter's conditions. Usually have to go through multiple specialists for them to actually listen and actually review notes on previous visits. I can already picture the conversation.

"We've narrowed it down to something in specific baking powders."
"Well, maybe it's wheat."
"She doesn't have any other wheat reactions."
"Has she been tested for Celiac's?"
"Yes, it was ruled out with her other GI issues."
"Are the GI issues part of the allergic reaction?"
"NO. It is a SKIN reaction to specific baking powders. I want to see what is in those baking powders to avoid it elsewhere."
"Well, let's see if it's wheat or maybe corn starch since it's baked goods. Celiac's can cause skin reactions so we can double check that. Hey....put that down...."

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I can only emphasize again that consulting with a board certified allergist is the wisest course to pursue. In that environment, guessing and speculation is put where it belongs...right next to tea leaves and chicken bones. It is a science driven diagnostic procedure, not some muddied process of "maybe's and I think's."
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

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If it's only the Kroger's house brand then there is another, clearly obvious explanation:
It's contaminated.
The contamination may be harmless to most people but not your daughter. So it may have NOTHING to do with any Baking Powder ingredients.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:01 pm If it's only the Kroger's house brand then there is another, clearly obvious explanation:
It's contaminated.
The contamination may be harmless to most people but not your daughter. So it may have NOTHING to do with any Baking Powder ingredients.
That's what I'm thinking. There's a "non-ingredient" contaminant upstream that impacts the Kroger brand and some other baking mixes. Don't know anything about the upstream supply chain or the processing method to even speculate about what it might be. Maybe a pro can figure it out.

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rolandson wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:52 pm In that environment, guessing and speculation is put where it belongs...right next to tea leaves and chicken bones. It is a science driven diagnostic procedure, not some muddied process of "maybe's and I think's."
That's what I told an ER doctor who wouldn't release my daughter until they tested her for diabetes with no symptoms for such and for no other reason than she has a diabetic relative when we took her in for something else entirely different. FFS, that's what "follow up with primary care provider" means.

With all of her health issues, I've had experience with doctors using systematic diagnosis and those who can't think of anything and rely on the "throw $#!+ at the wall until something sticks" approach. I'm sure there's an experienced, qualified allergist out there somewhere who can help pin point it.

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It's very frustrating. My son cannot taste or smell anything and hasn't for 8 years now. He's otherwise a normal, healthy active teen, running cross-country, eats like a Clydesdale, never puts on an ounce of fat. We took him to all kinds of doctors until he'd had enough. Texture is how he enjoys his food, so all kinds of textures work for him--from a steak to an apple to an Oreo--scratch that--a whole BOX of Oreos!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:25 pm It's very frustrating. My son cannot taste or smell anything and hasn't for 8 years now. He's otherwise a normal, healthy active teen, running cross-country, eats like a Clydesdale, never puts on an ounce of fat. We took him to all kinds of doctors until he'd had enough. Texture is how he enjoys his food, so all kinds of textures work for him--from a steak to an apple to an Oreo--scratch that--a whole BOX of Oreos!
My daughter had adenoids so blocked that they couldn't get a camera the size of a cooked spaghetti noodle through. Tonsils so big she actually had a third mini tonsil. Malocclusion so her molars don't meet to grind food. All on top of chronic nausea. So, couldn't smell to taste the food, couldn't break it down to get down her her tiny throat and if it did, too much of it would make her puke. YEARS of no one listening to me that there were physical issues, board certified "professionals" telling me she'd grow out of things, that she wouldn't starve herself, that any problems were from a "power struggle" between us before FINALLY someone actually looked at her frickin' throat. She's getting there. "Take it easy on Pop Tarts" is the least of my worries.

So glad your son has found a way to enjoy food. I long for the day when mine will eat me out of house and home like other teens! :D

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58Hawken wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:45 pm
So glad your son has found a way to enjoy food. I long for the day when mine will eat me out of house and home like other teens! :D
Yeah, it can be a pain in the ass when you turn around and...it's gone. But he's a great kid and well worth it.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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