In defense of “trophy hunting”

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I’ve seen a lot of sentiment, here and elsewhere, from people who declare they can tolerate hunting animals as long as the hunter is killing for meat, but they’re absolutely against trophy hunting. Some want it banned. And no one seems to think hunters should get any enjoyment from killing an animal.

Well, I hunt, a lot. Mostly I eat what I shoot (hogs, deer, doves, quail, rabbits, even javelina). But that isn’t really why I hunt. Believe me, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just go pick up a pack of shrink-wrapped meat at the grocery store.

I hunt because I like to stalk and kill wild animals. That’s the part I enjoy. Mostly I eat them, but sometimes I don’t. This time of year, I like to go try to shoot some coyotes, because each dead coyote means more whitetail fawns that live. I’m not going to grill any coyote steaks.

People who don’t hunt are the ones who delineate between meat hunters and trophy hunters. In reality, most hunters are both. I ate the meat from the first buck I ever shot, but I also have a euro mount of its skull and antlers as a trophy. I have rugs from the first axis and the first bear I shot; I ate the axis but not the bear (I wanted to, but I didn’t recover it til the next morning and the meat was no good). I’d like to go to Africa and get pelts from a zebra and an impala. Some Africans might eat that meat, but I’ll be happy with just the trophies.

I don’t think enjoying the hunt makes me a psychopath; I’m not going to come to your house and murder your pets. My cat (who also enjoys stalking and killing wild animals!) is snuggled on my lap as I type this. I obey the laws and hunt the apportioned animals with the proper equipment within the proscribed seasons. But there’s no sin, literally, in enjoying my skill as a hunter, or in keeping mementoes of my successful hunts.

End of rant. Flame away.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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BungalowBill wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:32 pm Well, I hunt, a lot. Mostly I eat what I shoot (hogs, deer, doves, quail, rabbits, even javelina). But that isn’t really why I hunt. Believe me, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just go pick up a pack of shrink-wrapped meat at the grocery store.
At last, a hunter that admits this. Thank you for your honesty.
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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My problem with trophy hunting is philosophical, in that it is a perversion of the natural predator/prey relationship. Predation should help natural selection by going after the weak, but most trophy hunters seem to go after the stronger, faster, more beautiful preys, and I don't think that's right.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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I dislike trophy hunting because I perceive it as wasteful, but that is a personal aversion. But as you said, one can both trophy hunt and meat hunt and a lot are both. My one and only hangup is with poachers, and I think most here would agree.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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BungalowBill wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:32 pm I hunt because I like to stalk and kill wild animals. That’s the part I enjoy.

I don’t think enjoying the hunt makes me a psychopath; I’m not going to come to your house and murder your pets.
I'm genuinely curious about the above statements. Do you enjoy the thrill of the hunt or the act of killing the animal? I do think there's a difference between the two statements. I'm not against hunting by any means, so I won't try to hoist my own morals upon you.

I still haven't had the opportunity to hunt but it's on my bucket list. Deep down I know that i'd probably feel some remorse for taking an animal's life, but I would probably also feel a sense of pride. I think, too, that we as humans tend to form attachments to certain animals for whatever reason. Would I feel remorse for shooting and killing water fowl or pheasant? Probably not as much as a deer or coyote but I likely wouldn't eat coyote and would only feel compelled to shoot them if I had cattle to protect (or whatever).

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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BungalowBill,

I never really thought about it until now, but as a lifelong deepsea fisherman (which by all means is a form of hunting), what you wrote actually struck a chord with me. If it was just about feeding myself and my family, there are a lot more efficient ways of doing it than getting on a $60,000 boat and spending the better part of a day burning through a few hundred dollars worth of fuel, tackle, and beverages to maybe bag a couple big mahi or one big swordfish, if we're lucky. It's very much about the thrill of the hunt, and the fight. There's a certain adrenaline rush when the reel starts spinning so fast and loud that there's smoke coming off of it and you know you hooked something big, and now you've got a fight on your hands.

Now, when I fish I eat every edible fish I catch, and what isn't edible either gets thrown back or used for bait. There's nothing better to me than fresh grilled seafood, it's by far my favorite food on earth. But it's only part of the reason I fish. I was never one to get the fish I caught mounted, mostly because it's expensive and I personally think it's tacky, but other guys I know do, and I've never had a problem with it. Yes, you snagged a 600lb swordfish, that's impressive, and if you wanna hang that on your wall and be proud of it, go for it.

I also know guys who love shark fishing, which isn't about food at all, it's all about the hunt and the fight. One side of me is sad to see this beautiful animal die so it's jaw can be a trophy on somebody's wall, but as an avid surfer I'm kind of okay with offing a couple of sharks here and there, haha.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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Trophy hunting rubs against my personal morals but I don't judge those who do it ethically and sustainable. I get the thrill of the hunt, so to speak. My issue is more killing for the sake of killing, especially something that is rare or becoming so. That said, ethical and sustainable trophy hunting does bring a much needed economy to some places that (somewhat and sometimes) offsets the cause of poaching in destitute areas. As with all things, balance is important. I appreciate your sharing.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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Carl_Spackler wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 9:52 am
BungalowBill wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:32 pm I hunt because I like to stalk and kill wild animals. That’s the part I enjoy.

I don’t think enjoying the hunt makes me a psychopath; I’m not going to come to your house and murder your pets.
I'm genuinely curious about the above statements. Do you enjoy the thrill of the hunt or the act of killing the animal?
Thank you for your thoughtful question. My answer is that since the kill is part of the hunt — in fact, the successful culmination of it — I have to say I enjoy both. I don’t mean to be crass about it. There is some remorse mixed in there too. It’s never easy to watch a living creature die. The reality of hunting is that I compete against the animals, and if I defeat them, it means they die.

I don’t like seeing the yahoos on hunting shows who jump around and high-five each other when they shoot an animal. There should be some reflection. But believe me, I’ve also been on photo safaris, and pictures of animals isn’t the same as hunting animals.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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One of the realities of modern life is that trophy hunting pays for a lot of habitat. Land is a scarce resource and will be used for farming or houses or parking lots. Wild land has to generate some cash flow to pay the taxes and remain as wild land. Self interest of trophy hunters generates a lot of cash, and usually the meat is used. If not by humans, scavengers take it. Even the meat hunters now generate cash for habitat and herd care. License fees pay for habitat and DNR .
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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Maccabee wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 12:19 pm
lurker wrote:killing for food - ok
killing for fun - not ok
trophy hunt with a camera
+1. Killing for sport is barbaric.
I disagree, I consider catch and release fishing barbaric. Hunting and killing prey is a very normal activity. Having fun doing it is not something peculiar to humans either.

Although I have not considered myself to be a pure trophy hunter, I have always felt that if I ever had a shot at what would be considered a true trophy buck and killed it I would have it's head mounted and donate it to a museum of natural history and give that buck immortality.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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BungalowBill wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 1:15 pm
<large snip!>.

The reality of hunting is that I compete against the animals, and if I defeat them, it means they die.
There used to be a saying among the "boy racers" in the UK (slightly modified cars covered with stickers, loud exhausts, trying to beat everyone on the road) - "If the other guy doesn't know it's a race, then it isn't a race."

If the animal doesn't know it's being "competed" against, then there is no competition - just meaningless slaughter. For your "enjoyment", which makes it worse.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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featureless wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 2:42 pm I knew someone that went wild boar hunting with a knife. That seemed pretty fair. ;)
Absolutely fair.

There is a great book by Daniel Mannix called "A Sporting Chance" about ways of hunting that give the animal an equal chance (or nearly so). If you can find it, it is well worth the read - especially when seen through the eyes of someone that may need to hunt for food, but has no weapons.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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Good thread btw. I have no problem hunting for food or for wildlife management reasons (culling nutria, coyotes, hogs). Kinda torn on trophy hunting.

I mean, some of the first cave art was centered on hunting...probably bragging about was bagged by groups of hunters. I get that.

And other animals (cats, dogs, dolphins) will apparently kill just to kill.

That said, I think I have a problem hunting animals if the only purpose is to hunt them, i.e., the kill isn't useful to the ecology or providing resources to the hunter.

Unless it's a dangerous one, I don't normally kill spiders for instance. Black Widows are shown no mercy however because they breed like crazy, push out other spiders and are dangerous to me.

I get the thrill of the hunt, but I don't think I could kill something if the killing didn't serve some purpose, other than my own pleasure.

BTW, I also think catch and release is kind of stupid, although I've done it. Makes more sense to me to fish until you have enough food and then go home.
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"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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So many things to say here... Trying to be civil. :)

I think this is a troll, but I will take the bait - just in case.

I get the feeling that anyone who thinks the thrill of the hunt is worth the time has enough money to eat at a restaurant and buy a camera.

The idea that grocery store meat is cheaper is not true everywhere. If you process the animal yourself, it is ridiculous to claim that store bought meat is cheaper. If you just hunt them for the taste of wild meat, then maybe it is cheaper. When I started making enough money to buy meat at a store, I stopped hunting. I cannot imagine killing something for the thrill of it.

If you enjoy the hunt, shoot with a camera. If you have to hunt to eat, do it.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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K9s wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:54 pm So many things to say here... Trying to be civil. :)

I think this is a troll, but I will take the bait - just in case.
I’m not a troll. I’ve posted other stuff here. But as I said in my original post, I’ve seen a lot of uninformed opinion on here about what people consider right and wrong about hunting, mostly written by people who don’t or won’t hunt. I wanted to offer an informed, civil opinion about why I hunt and what hunting means to me, knowing that some would disagree, but hopefully not be disagreeable. I appreciate those who have been open-minded.

Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

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BungalowBill wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 5:42 pm
K9s wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:54 pm So many things to say here... Trying to be civil. :)

I think this is a troll, but I will take the bait - just in case.
I’m not a troll. I’ve posted other stuff here. But as I said in my original post, I’ve seen a lot of uninformed opinion on here about what people consider right and wrong about hunting, mostly written by people who don’t or won’t hunt. I wanted to offer an informed, civil opinion about why I hunt and what hunting means to me, knowing that some would disagree, but hopefully not be disagreeable. I appreciate those who have been open-minded.
Trolling as a verb, not a noun.

I have hunted, and would again if necessary.

We will agree to disagree.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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