In defense of “trophy hunting”

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YankeeTarheel
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by YankeeTarheel »

The argument is spurious because every criminal could make the same argument about the judge and jury judging them, because they haven't committed the crime they are judging.
you could say "But this is a legal activity." But that too is spurious. I cannot spend $500 million on an election like the Kochs, but I CAN judge them!
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

I am sensing a lot of defensive posturing, misrepresentation of arguments, and unfounded accusations. Maybe some thoughtful consideration of other views would work? Some of us have hunting experience. Some of the members hunt and fish. Some are vegetarian or vegan, I bet. That doesn't mean we all agree on everything. No need to get upset about it.

The OP posted this on an internet forum and expected, I assume, opposing views. If I posted a thread "In Defense of Magazine Capacity Bans", I would expect a lot of different opinions and a lively discussion. On a liberal gun forum, the name calling (ad hominem) and misrepresentation doesn't work like it does on other gun forums. Maybe that is the problem? This isn't a power & dominance game. We actually want a discussion.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by TEXGunny »

"divide and conquer. cute. pay more attention to your own "look", thrill-killers."

that was from lurker. I have a couple other examples but I'm on mobile. I've offered my defense of trophy hunting several times, and every time i have the side opposite (looking at you marlene) strawmans by saying "well I guess you just like killing". as far as I'm concerned, unless someone can show me how I'm not arguing with a (rude) brick wall, I've said my peace

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by curtism1234 »

TEXGunny wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:44 pm

experience with a thing is necessary for full understanding. experience gets rid of false assumptions, and gives someone a chance to learn about the thing as an entirety. how many times do we see people against "assault weapons" who've never held a gun? would you accept someone else's opinion on the status of geological study who's not only not been to a conference, but never even taken a class in the subject? probably not. it's not a question of an argument from authority, it's a question of credibility

I find the opinions of people talking about things they haven't experienced to be less credible than that of those who have.

being called killers tells me more about the people leveling the epithet than their other words.

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In general, I agree. However, we have to be careful to take experienced people at their word on controversial subjects because they often have a view that can use flawed ideas/stats to support it and their mind will never be changed.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by SailDesign »

curtism1234 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:45 pm
In general, I agree. However, we have to be careful to take experienced people at their word on controversial subjects because they often have a view that can use flawed ideas/stats to support it and their mind will never be changed.
Better than that, in anything that is a subjective idea (like "Trophy Hunting") there is and can be no hard-and-fast moral or philosophical "Defense" for it. Some people like it - some don't.

Arguing the point merely exposes you as someone who cannot bear to have others disagree with your opinions.

Live with it - some don't like it, some do. End of story.

I now return you to your regularly-scheduled bitch-session..... :smart:
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by YankeeTarheel »

I might have missed it, although I doubt it, but I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread attack or condemn hunting for food, "varmint" hunt (pest control), or population control.
It has been solely for hunting so you can take a picture of yourself next to to a dead lion, elephant, leopard, tiger, rhino, whatsoever.

If that's your jollies and it's legal, I cannot stop you, But that doesn't mean i need to or must hold back judgement.

Here's the weakest part of the argument, again "If you've never done it, you don't know...." To which I say 2 things 1) Educate us (you haven't) why you enjoy that last part: Ending some magnificent creature's life for no damn good reason other than you get off on it, and 2) If you cannot explain it, it means you don't understand it yourself!
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:59 pm
I might have missed it, although I doubt it, but I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread attack or condemn hunting for food, "varmint" hunt (pest control), or population control.
It has been solely for hunting so you can take a picture of yourself next to to a dead lion, elephant, leopard, tiger, rhino, whatsoever.

If that's your jollies and it's legal, I cannot stop you, But that doesn't mean i need to or must hold back judgement.

Here's the weakest part of the argument, again "If you've never done it, you don't know...." To which I say 2 things 1) Educate us (you haven't) why you enjoy that last part: Ending some magnificent creature's life for no damn good reason other than you get off on it, and 2) If you cannot explain it, it means you don't understand it yourself!
Generically:

There are some things I have done and would never do again.

There are also some things I haven't done, and no one can convince me they are OK.

I guess you can fill in your own blanks for yourself.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by Marlene »

TEXGunny wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:39 pm
I've offered my defense of trophy hunting several times, and every time i have the side opposite (looking at you marlene) strawmans by saying "well I guess you just like killing".
Friend, reading is, as they say, motherfucking fundamental. I have not once in this thread said that I guess you just like killing. On the contrary, I have raised the question as to whether anyone was going to offer a framing of trophy hunting that countered such an argument, but have not answered it myself in the negative nor in the affirmative. Don't mistake my disdain for the "arguments" (lol) made for trophy hunting, in this thread, as disdain for the sport. I am undecided, just as I was when you started your longwinded lack of contribution here.

It's pretty funny that you think I'm your adversary on this subject and that I'm setting up strawmen while arguing against you. I am doing none of those things. I'm just making fun of you for being upset that you've convinced nobody of anything and seem to have no idea why we aren't all agreeing with you after your first round of word salad. That's probably cruel of me, but you named me and I am, as they say, just exactly that bitch.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Marlene wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:29 pm
I have not once in this thread said that I guess you just like killing.
I have, however, and, until I see a reason, any reason besides that why you do it, I will keep it as my working hypothesis.
Saying "No! It's not!" isn't anything but a schoolyard answer.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by curtism1234 »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:59 pm
I might have missed it, although I doubt it, but I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread attack or condemn hunting for food, "varmint" hunt (pest control), or population control.
It has been solely for hunting so you can take a picture of yourself next to to a dead lion, elephant, leopard, tiger, rhino, whatsoever.
Clarification question for those against "trophy hunting"

Are you against the trophy hunting of very large / semi-endangered (ie elephant, rhino, lion) animals and somewhat open to the trophy hunting of very common species (ie impala, zebra) OR are you opposed to all trophy hunting in general?

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by YankeeTarheel »

curtism1234 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:01 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:59 pm
I might have missed it, although I doubt it, but I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread attack or condemn hunting for food, "varmint" hunt (pest control), or population control.
It has been solely for hunting so you can take a picture of yourself next to to a dead lion, elephant, leopard, tiger, rhino, whatsoever.
Clarification question for those against "trophy hunting"

Are you against the trophy hunting of very large / semi-endangered (ie elephant, rhino, lion) animals and somewhat open to the trophy hunting of very common species (ie impala, zebra) OR are you opposed to all trophy hunting in general?
Me? If you ain't eatin' it, and it ain't a pest, and it ain't part of keeping the herds from overpopulation (and other health-of-the-hear measures), then I don't see any point in trophy hunting, endangered or not--it just seems fatuously cruel...but anyone who wants to trophy hunt an endangered species deserves a special place in the Hell I don't believe in.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

curtism1234 wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:01 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:59 pm
I might have missed it, although I doubt it, but I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread attack or condemn hunting for food, "varmint" hunt (pest control), or population control.
It has been solely for hunting so you can take a picture of yourself next to to a dead lion, elephant, leopard, tiger, rhino, whatsoever.
Clarification question for those against "trophy hunting"

Are you against the trophy hunting of very large / semi-endangered (ie elephant, rhino, lion) animals and somewhat open to the trophy hunting of very common species (ie impala, zebra) OR are you opposed to all trophy hunting in general?
Personally? I think it is really weird to put a deer head in your house. Most people in my family did it or do it. I think it is creepy. That is just my opinion.

Regarding lions and such: If you claim that this sport-killing is worthwhile because it feeds the poor, then spend the money to actually feed the poor and help them out with their needs. Don't pretend to do it because it is helping anyone else. Again, that is just my opinion.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by CDFingers »

TEXGunny wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:39 pm
"divide and conquer. cute. pay more attention to your own "look", thrill-killers."

that was from lurker. I have a couple other examples but I'm on mobile. I've offered my defense of trophy hunting several times, and every time i have the side opposite (looking at you marlene) strawmans by saying "well I guess you just like killing". as far as I'm concerned, unless someone can show me how I'm not arguing with a (rude) brick wall, I've said my peace
How can this not be "liking killing?" The thrill killer likes to kill. The meat eater kills to eat. How can this not be obvious?

The current slice of orange does this all the time also. Says a thing then denies it means what it means. Why is this an acceptable thing?

Fascinating.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by CHWolff »

The meat hunter doesn't kill to eat. The grocery is where the meat hunter gets most food and he/she hunts for reasons beyond subsistence. Hunting's a connection to the past, the outdoors, it's a totally different way to be in nature than hiking trails and it gives an appreciation for animals that non-hunters don't get. There are many reasons to hunt but doing it for food in 2019 USA isn't one of them.

People think it's righteous to "eat what you kill". Eating an elk steak or deer sausage makes hunting OK but that's simply not true. For one thing, hunting doesn't need absolution. The guilt they are trying to assuage is artificial. For another thing most hunters don't eat much of the animal. They'll take the quarters and backstrap. Maybe some other pieces depending on how far it is to carry and how convenient. Lots of this gets ground up and mixed with pig to make burger. They leave ribs, brains, tongue, cheek, stomach contents, lungs, heart, kidney, liver and bone marrow among other things. They often leave the hide or big parts of it. I'm good with them leaving lots of animal where the animal died and even prefer it. I'm not OK with them pretending to be virtuous because they make some steaks and shit.

I've eaten about everything that a deer has to give including toe cartilage, skin, guts, gut contents (great survival food) even fetus from a pregnant doe killed on the highway and I guarantee that nobody in this country eats the whole animal. We just don't do it. We take enough that society says it's O.K. in some sort of commonly agreed, feel good, pat on the back sanctimony. It's bullshit. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny and it's the epitome of human arrogance.

Hunt! Get out there and trophy hunt if you wish. Learn the animals, get in the bush, get close to them and if you're lucky take a shot. The skills you build will serve you well and you will learn something about yourself, about the animal people and about nature. Always remember that nothing goes to waste in the wild. Leaving the animal where it lived gives back to the wild place that raised it and is the best conservation you can do. Way better than hauling it to a town, processing it and flushing many useful calories down some sort of drain.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

This topic has become a garbled jumble of something resembling a defense of hunting and trophy hunting. Not sure where we are going with this after 7 pages.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by YankeeTarheel »

K9s wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:53 am
This topic has become a garbled jumble of something resembling a defense of hunting and trophy hunting. Not sure where we are going with this after 7 pages.
Yeah, time to focus on other threads.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by lurker »

K9s wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:53 am
This topic has become a garbled jumble of something resembling a defense of hunting and trophy hunting. Not sure where we are going with this after 7 pages.
this thread was done when the OP wrote the "title". look at it, intended to stir controversy. if it was my forum (thank Dog it's not) i'd have locked it in mid-page 1, and the OP? gone.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by TEXGunny »

K9s wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:53 am
This topic has become a garbled jumble of something resembling a defense of hunting and trophy hunting. Not sure where we are going with this after 7 pages.
Trophy hunting = Hunting

Just like a snickers = candy, separating the two artificially and trying to claim one as absolute evil and the other as OK just isn't consistent. Unless you can specify a feature of trophy hunting that makes it different than "normal" US conservation-oriented hunting (and spoiler, you can't), they are equivalent. The only non-substantive difference is that one has animals in the Lion King and the other Bambi

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by lurker »

TEXGunny wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:42 am
K9s wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:53 am
This topic has become a garbled jumble of something resembling a defense of hunting and trophy hunting. Not sure where we are going with this after 7 pages.
Trophy hunting = Hunting

Just like a snickers = candy, separating the two artificially and trying to claim one as absolute evil and the other as OK just isn't consistent. Unless you can specify a feature of trophy hunting that makes it different than "normal" US conservation-oriented hunting (and spoiler, you can't), they are equivalent. The only non-substantive difference is that one has animals in the Lion King and the other Bambi
i rest my case.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by TEXGunny »

If you're trying to make the "case" that hunting is wrong you have about 100,000 years of human evolution to fight against. Good luck

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by lurker »

:roflmao:

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

Seriously?
Last edited by K9s on Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by TEXGunny »

K9s wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:37 pm
Seriously?
Sarcasm typically doesn't convince other people that you're right.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by K9s »

It was a question, not sarcasm.

I have nothing against you, TEX, but that "defend all hunting" bait sounds like a Rep Jim Jordan argument.

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Re: In defense of “trophy hunting”

Post by max129 »

Tex,

You are leaving zero room for people who do subsistence hunting and those who hunt soley for trophies. I personally know many people in the Rocky Mountains who do the former and do not like the latter.

I do not advocate in any way that trophy hunting be made illegal. You are right in one sense, one really cannot distinguish trophy hunting from hunting.

I am a hunting advocate, but I personally choose not to do any trophy hunting. I do not look down on trophy hunters; but it is not something I will do, ever.

These nuances are in human nature. I am not sure what you want here in this thread. I certainly do not agree that "Trophy Hunting = Hunting".

It is true that all Trophy Hunting is Hunting; the inverse is not true.
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