What's the worst you really think would happen?

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Bisbee
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Bisbee »

Well, in accordance to wisdom and rationality I never claimed any tactic to be absolute nor meant to invalidate being a refugee. And generally agreeing with K9s thoughts above, I would also add the importance of Timing into the mix. Picking up roots (to rift on Max's fascinating article) entails giving up a lot of what is emotionally meaningful for us as humans for a chance at setting roots once again. So I'm sure most everyone would agree that running should be the option of last resort.

The sentiment that Maccabee expressed is one PRIOR to selling our homes and possessions to flee as a basic act of survival. To fight for what you believe in your heart is the basis of all human progress; folks like us inherently know this in our hearts. Fighting out of reactionary fear of The Other is the the hallmark of a regressive policy, the antithesis of what we believe in, yet also carries a shade of "survival" in it. So it is always important to be mindful of why we are fighting.

Yet I do believe it is important to plan to fight before making plans to retreat since inherent in the strategy to regroup is the idea to engage in another battle sometime in the future. So to state the obvious, engaging in and facing our challenges with courage is ultimately what life is all about.

And with regard to the Jews in Europe before WWII, we as HS students in America learned the one's who fled Germany before and after Kristalinacht were the one's who avoided the concentration camps and gas chambers. Some of us also learned of the SS St. Louis in 1939 which was a stain of shame for humanity but for the Jews merely underscored how even running can be futile. But along the lines of Timing being the key issue, we all learned that during a limited window of opportunity at the beginning of an evil regime if enough people/countries stood up against the Nazi policy of hatred and persecution of minorities, the holocaust could have been averted. So once again, standing up in defense of what you believe in while you have the time and opportunity should supplant running as the option of last resort when you must give up everything you've worked to achieve in the world
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by K9s »

Good points, Bisbee. I agree.

I had a few acquaintances who decided to live in other countries because it was cheaper to live there on a pension. Some chose Mexico and couldn't be happier. One chose a country that is now embroiled in civil war - he fled back to the US. Timing, resources, abilities, family situation, race/creed/color/religion/etc are all factors in your choice. LUCK is also an important component.

I still think we have a generation timeframe to vote ourselves out of this predicament. We have to try something - "for the children". I will probably be one of those who stays to defend. It would suck, but it would be my free choice. I look to some European countries as the new beacon of hope.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by SailDesign »

K9s wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:20 pm
There is no right answer. Your solution depends on your age, health, resources, geography, skills, and a host of other factors. Run, hide, fight, or whatever works best for you.
Yup. Not able to run (far) and unwilling to fight unless I'm in danger - MY definition of danger, not yours.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Eris »

I'm no warrior. If things actually came down to a shooting fight in the US I'd head for the border. That's what my guns are for - getting me to safety.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by K9s »

Eris wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I'm no warrior. If things actually came down to a shooting fight in the US I'd head for the border. That's what my guns are for - getting me to safety.
Where is the "like" button? :thumbup:

Canada has its own mini-Trump on the rise, so maybe head south until you are sure....
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

What's the worst that can happen? Trump starts a nuclear war that gets out of control and kills all life on Earth.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by lurker »

stay and fight. what have us old guys to lose, a couple of years in a nursing home? maybe i'll get lucky and take a jackbooted thug or two to hell with me. come and take it!

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:16 pm
What's the worst that can happen? Trump starts a nuclear war that gets out of control and kills all life on Earth.
Honestly I can think of many worse outcomes.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Marlene wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:32 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:16 pm
What's the worst that can happen? Trump starts a nuclear war that gets out of control and kills all life on Earth.
Honestly I can think of many worse outcomes.
Not me. Destroying a process that took at least 2 billion years, and leaves our planet as a barren desert, like the moon, seems about as bad as it can get. Even the sun going Supernova and ending the solar system isn't much worse. The End of Everything.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

I can think of worse suffering. I don't actually think the existence of humans on the whole is very important.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by VodoundaVinci »

I have been a member/moderator of a Flight Sim forum based in the UK for over a decade. All of my closest friends are in Europe and the UK. I spend more time talking to these folks than my Family. England, Scotland, France, Holland, Germany...I have ex patriot friends in Portugal, Spain, Scotland, and Canada.

I talk to these people in depth about how much a car costs and what kind of gas mileage it gets...how much does yer house cost? How much do you make and what do you do? Utilities? Rent? Food?

Folks, we are being fed a line of Shit that the US is all that and several bags of chips. I have a job lined up, a place to live, and all of the minute details. My people (Scots, Irish, Germans and Belgians) fled here for opportunity and Life. Well...to be fair, the Scots were deported after Culloden as indentured servants (slaves) but, you know, I can rent a cottage and live there now again. My Scots friends (I am a formal member of the Scottish Mafia!) are calling me and my Wife, Daughter of a Scottish Farmer, home again.

Again, I have no party...The Republicans want to be Fascists and the Democrats are owned/operated by the same Oligarchy but want to disarm me so they can stop US from taking the country back. My Mom is 86 and when she's gone there is little keeping me here.Bernie can fix it but he insists on being a Democrat and that's the end of that...they'll fuck him and US again this time like they did the last time.

No...I have a friend in England that shoots at a better range than I do in the US. I can take my precision rifle, my dogs, my Wife, my savings and what SS I get and go live in the UK and work a job for as long as I can to make ends meet. 'cause I'm sick of The Oligarchy and the liquidation of the middle class. When Mom's gone, I'm out. Maybe Bernie and the Social Democrats will actually prevail but that's a long shot.

The worst that can happen?

Nothing.

I'd stay and fight but I don't wanna hurt anyone (except Billionaires) and I'm too old for that shit now. America seems to have earned an ass kicking and I'm pretty sure we are gonna get that. Look me up when you get out...I'll help if I can.

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by AndyH »

Eris wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I'm no warrior. If things actually came down to a shooting fight in the US I'd head for the border. That's what my guns are for - getting me to safety.
So, like, Taco Bell has been relaying the plan all along? :fun:

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by max129 »

VodoundaVinci

America seems to have earned an ass kicking and I'm pretty sure we are gonna get that.
Yep. In 1900, the richest Country in the world was England. In 1955 they had food rationing after WINNING 2 World Wars. The United States misplayed our hand after the Soviet collapse in 1989. We are going to pay a serious price one day.

And Marlene, I can agree with the potential extermination of Homo Sapiens, (we have earned it), but I have seen some extremely beautiful life other than humans. My problem with the "nucular" option is that it is not selective.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Bisbee »

You said "nucular"...
:w00t:

Has anyone ever considered "fighting the good fight" can actually entail becoming a teacher in the community? Picking up a hoe to work a community garden in the inner city to encourage food security? Writing and performing poetry or music at a slam to engage hearts and minds? Who said fighting only involves armed resistance (as if there is ever a clear target to aim for). "Rage Against the Machine" is happening all around you (among the younger generations) but you just don't recognize it because you may have unconsciously discounted it as frivolous or weak in the face of overwhelming odds. That is merely your limited perspective.
Last edited by Bisbee on Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Eris »

AndyH wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:43 pm
Eris wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:49 pm
I'm no warrior. If things actually came down to a shooting fight in the US I'd head for the border. That's what my guns are for - getting me to safety.
So, like, Taco Bell has been relaying the plan all along? :fun:
Yes, we use Taco Bell for our communications because we know that Real MAGAmuricans (tm) are averse to anything Mexican.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by BlueHunsaker »

Bisbee wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:44 pm
Has anyone ever considered "fighting the good fight" can actually entail becoming a teacher in the community? . . . "Rage Against the Machine" is happening all around you . . .
Well said, Sister/Brother.

But this thread has become a hell of a bargain. I can’t usually get so much dismal-hip shade without paying seven bucks for a cortado brevé. :love:

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

Bisbee wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:44 pm
Has anyone ever considered "fighting the good fight" can actually entail becoming a teacher in the community? Picking up a hoe to work a community garden in the inner city to encourage food security? Writing and performing poetry or music at a slam to engage hearts and minds? Who said fighting only involves armed resistance (as if there is ever a clear target to aim for). "Rage Against the Machine" is happening all around you (among the younger generations) but you just don't recognize it because you may have unconsciously discounted it as frivolous or weak in the face of overwhelming odds. That is merely your limited perspective.
I wish more of y'all would.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Bacchus »

Bisbee wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:44 pm
...
Has anyone ever considered "fighting the good fight" can actually entail ...
:love:
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Marlene wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:38 pm
I can think of worse suffering. I don't actually think the existence of humans on the whole is very important.
I dunno. I think extinguishing all life on the only place in the universe we know it exists seems like the only thing worse would be the end of the universe itself.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

Why?
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Marlene wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:08 pm
Why?
Sorry that you feel the need to even ask that question.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

What outside of earth is improved by the current inhabitants of earth? Is there some other inherent good that our presence serves? Why do you think the answer should be obvious? What cosmological assumptions that make it obvious to you are you not saying aloud because you think everyone thinks as you do?

Nothing to be sorry for. I just don't know what you're getting at because you haven't said it.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by K9s »

Marlene wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:13 pm
What outside of earth is improved by the current inhabitants of earth? Is there some other inherent good that our presence serves? Why do you think the answer should be obvious? What cosmological assumptions that make it obvious to you are you not saying aloud because you think everyone thinks as you do?

Nothing to be sorry for. I just don't know what you're getting at because you haven't said it.
Personally, I want to live. That's just me being selfish, I guess. However, I still want to live. I also want a lot of other creatures to live (family, friends, and lots of other mammals I know and love). I think you should live, Marlene. I enjoy your comments and input.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by Marlene »

Reading is motherfucking fundamental.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Marlene wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:13 pm
What outside of earth is improved by the current inhabitants of earth? Is there some other inherent good that our presence serves? Why do you think the answer should be obvious? What cosmological assumptions that make it obvious to you are you not saying aloud because you think everyone thinks as you do?

Nothing to be sorry for. I just don't know what you're getting at because you haven't said it.
As Jean-Paul Sartre put it, death is the absolute contradiction of reason. We are all going to do it, but why embrace it and try to hasten it if you're not terminally ill and in agony? Life is its own purpose, otherwise all life is nothing but, as "Nomad" in "Star Trek" put it, a "biological infestation".
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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