Mine are staying in the racks. I bug out to my bedroom. I believe that if someone isn't living in their fortress today, they will not establish a fortress after a national disaster. I see huge holes in even the best "bug-out" plans. Some people confuse fantasies with plans.
But in the spirit of the post, my first choice of defensive firearm is an SKS. Flexibility is the strong point when you have your entire arsenal and a reasonable supply ammo at your finger tips. I can choose, as the situation dictates, any number of rifles, shotguns or handguns for home defense. I have a pantry full of food, a good roof over my head, and an intimate knowledge of the land surrounding me. I would be repelling people that are "heading for the mountains" not joining, or competing with them.
Of course, the best all round SHFT scenario is to keep it from happening in the first place. The most powerful weapon for that is to vote.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
52Usually, I agree. However, it's hard to stay put when a fire is consuming your fortress or an earthquake has leveled it. California requires no small part of the emergency contingency planning being on bug out.damnitman wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:40 am Mine are staying in the racks. I bug out to my bedroom. I believe that if someone isn't living in their fortress today, they will not establish a fortress after a national disaster. I see huge holes in even the best "bug-out" plans. Some people confuse fantasies with plans.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
53If society breaks down temporarily, my defense will come from the group I form with my relatives, friends, and neighbors. I go with rifles and pistols with the most common ammo, namely 5.56 and 9mm. Following the theme of commonality, I’d bring my AR pistol and my G19. If any of the parts break, finding a replacement would be easier. Their magazines are also very common.
Bugging out (except temporarily) doesn’t seem realistic when an entire state of millions suddenly decide to do the same. All edible animals will be hunted down and consumed within days. Your biggest worry would be 2-legged predators with guns.
Bugging out (except temporarily) doesn’t seem realistic when an entire state of millions suddenly decide to do the same. All edible animals will be hunted down and consumed within days. Your biggest worry would be 2-legged predators with guns.
Glad that federal government is boring again.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
54What all the SHTF slash zombie apocalypse scenarios forget is that most disasters don't turn into a complete and utter breakdown of society. People remember the Superbowl shitshow, but not the years of people coming together to rebuild their homes and neighborhoods. Even after Hiroshima and Nagasaki got nuked, the survivors pulled together.
Most people are fundamentally decent. What they are not is well prepared. Food, water, medicine. Lines of communication.
Guns have limited utility in real life disasters. Defense is always a consideration, but you don't want someone stealing what you have. Secure anything you aren't using - sometimes that means they go in your BOB if you're in the path of a wildfire, as Featureless has laid out. But keep them secure.
For most purposes, your carry weapon and a good knife or machete will serve. The long guns are more useful for hunting if necessary, but for search and rescue, medical evac, things like that? You won't need 'em.
If it comes to war, that's a different story.
Most people are fundamentally decent. What they are not is well prepared. Food, water, medicine. Lines of communication.
Guns have limited utility in real life disasters. Defense is always a consideration, but you don't want someone stealing what you have. Secure anything you aren't using - sometimes that means they go in your BOB if you're in the path of a wildfire, as Featureless has laid out. But keep them secure.
For most purposes, your carry weapon and a good knife or machete will serve. The long guns are more useful for hunting if necessary, but for search and rescue, medical evac, things like that? You won't need 'em.
If it comes to war, that's a different story.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
55Back to the original question (now 3 years ago), I own all three, and still have the same Q's so, good luck.
My best answer is to anyone is to take the one you feel most comfortable with.
I love my (wife's) 16" M92 .357. Good for PD, even at close quarters, common caliber(s), small enough to fit in a pack without disassembly, light, can reload on the run, powerful enough for med-sized game, big enough to intimidate, small enough not to intimidate (there are even mini-shotshells available). Plus, It's still less expensive than most pistols.
I have a chinese Savage 37 12 ga.. Super heavy, so it sucks up recoil, so I wouldn't want to pack it all day. But damn, 12 ga...
It usually lives in Binky, my van.
If I could grab only one on my way out the door, it would probably be the 92.
Plus, the ammo matches my K-frame.
My best answer is to anyone is to take the one you feel most comfortable with.
I love my (wife's) 16" M92 .357. Good for PD, even at close quarters, common caliber(s), small enough to fit in a pack without disassembly, light, can reload on the run, powerful enough for med-sized game, big enough to intimidate, small enough not to intimidate (there are even mini-shotshells available). Plus, It's still less expensive than most pistols.
I have a chinese Savage 37 12 ga.. Super heavy, so it sucks up recoil, so I wouldn't want to pack it all day. But damn, 12 ga...
It usually lives in Binky, my van.
If I could grab only one on my way out the door, it would probably be the 92.
Plus, the ammo matches my K-frame.
"I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality" - George Washington
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
569mm's for personal protection, hunting rifle and AR is all I have. May add a shotgun down the road. But the first 4 I'd take. My AR is 5.56 and then the 9's are most common ammo, so banking on resupplying will be easier. I did plan on bugging out(getting out of the city), so considering that as well. Next year, I'll be living in the sticks and that has a built in water source and game around if necessary. Agree with someone earlier though that most 4 legged things will be dead within a few weeks.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
57Since I am going nowhere, I don't have to choose. If I were limited to one firearm, I would pick my Soviet SKS. Limited to one shotgun, it would be an 870, limited to one pistol it would be a 1911. With those choices, I have enough spare parts to last several lifetimes, and enough ammo for a respectable war.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
58If I were going to pick one gat for the Zed ending of the world I would probably go with a suppressed carbine. The Ruger PCC would be a good choice or maybe a spruced up M1 (my understanding that although .30 carbine is a great round the recent offerings from Inland leave something to be desired) But i think that any pistol caliber carbine which can be suppressed would make a great Zed killer. Especially if you get something that can handle glock happy sticks.
BUT
For RL? My go kit assumes that I am taking my regular carry pistol and my Mossberg MVP patrol rifle. I could probably switch that rifle out for my Savage Scout but I have WAY more .223 than I do .308. The wife would carry the smaller Star 9mm her 10/22 (slung on the side of her pack) and the Mossberg 12g.
BUT
For RL? My go kit assumes that I am taking my regular carry pistol and my Mossberg MVP patrol rifle. I could probably switch that rifle out for my Savage Scout but I have WAY more .223 than I do .308. The wife would carry the smaller Star 9mm her 10/22 (slung on the side of her pack) and the Mossberg 12g.
Never smile too big, the gods may mistake it for hubris.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
59Skimming through this interesting older thread. Lots of discussion on this for many years over at gunboards.com Survival sub-forum.
Best survival rifle IMO if out in the sticks is a .410 or 20ga/.22mag over under. Specially for hunting game. Shotgun is best for not blowing game to pieces. A .22 mag could take out deer with a well placed shot. But then you have all that meat to deal with.
As for bugging out thats not going to happen at my house. We're on a hill in the sticks and have tactical high ground with lots of ex military around in the hood. Looters ain't gettin in. The worst place to be is in a metro area. Its going to be a mess down there.
As for prep, lots of freeze dried MH and enough 20 year buckets of food to feed an small unit. Multiple kinds of water filters with a decent size swimming pool that has a cover. Solar power for pump, chlorine. Back up generator and solar battery chargers.
Money, bills, coins are better like silver and gold for barter is needed, or ammo. Ammo will be the new currency. Crypto will be a nothing burger.
A still for alcohol! You can get a nice little counter top still. You can get a pretty decent one for 100 to 300 bucks. Alcohol will be great to barter with.
Been prepping for several years.
Best survival rifle IMO if out in the sticks is a .410 or 20ga/.22mag over under. Specially for hunting game. Shotgun is best for not blowing game to pieces. A .22 mag could take out deer with a well placed shot. But then you have all that meat to deal with.
As for bugging out thats not going to happen at my house. We're on a hill in the sticks and have tactical high ground with lots of ex military around in the hood. Looters ain't gettin in. The worst place to be is in a metro area. Its going to be a mess down there.
As for prep, lots of freeze dried MH and enough 20 year buckets of food to feed an small unit. Multiple kinds of water filters with a decent size swimming pool that has a cover. Solar power for pump, chlorine. Back up generator and solar battery chargers.
Money, bills, coins are better like silver and gold for barter is needed, or ammo. Ammo will be the new currency. Crypto will be a nothing burger.
A still for alcohol! You can get a nice little counter top still. You can get a pretty decent one for 100 to 300 bucks. Alcohol will be great to barter with.
Been prepping for several years.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
60EVery one of them. Bug -in whenever practical. If it gets bad enough (say an electrical grid hack, that takes the whole grid down) and my property is no longer viable or defensible by me and my wife , I am loading up my truck with kids, dogs, food stores, weapons and Ammo and consolidating with my brother, who had a hobby farm and more defensible property, in a less densely populated area. The only “hole” in my SHTF fan battery is a Semi-auto .50, NVGs & armor. Hard hitting anti-material rifles & NVGs would be a game changer, force multiplier, as every pickup truck full of red-neck, good old boys, bent on taking and raping has ARs.
But honestly, I think it’s a fantasy- I see an authoritarian regime taking out weapons away (1933) and slowly then the rest of our rights. I think we came too close for comfort in Jan 6th.
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But honestly, I think it’s a fantasy- I see an authoritarian regime taking out weapons away (1933) and slowly then the rest of our rights. I think we came too close for comfort in Jan 6th.
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Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
61Has or had a hobby farm?INVICTVS138 wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 5:57 pm EVery one of them. Bug -in whenever practical. If it gets bad enough (say an electrical grid hack, that takes the whole grid down) and my property is no longer viable or defensible by me and my wife , I am loading up my truck with kids, dogs, food stores, weapons and Ammo and consolidating with my brother, who had a hobby farm and more defensible property, in a less densely populated area. The only “hole” in my SHTF fan battery is a Semi-auto .50, NVGs & armor. Hard hitting anti-material rifles & NVGs would be a game changer, force multiplier, as every pickup truck full of red-neck, good old boys, bent on taking and raping has ARs.
But honestly, I think it’s a fantasy- I see an authoritarian regime taking out weapons away (1933) and slowly then the rest of our rights. I think we came too close for comfort in Jan 6th.
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What you want to be is one gas tank or two away from the unban centers. Why? Because every mother and their brother is going to be headed for the hills. And being out there with no real shelter is gonna be a problem. It will be a shit show. I say fortify your space. Solar, batteries, fuel, food etc. Learn to live off the land if need be and know your edible plants, have a garden, edible animals. No rats.
I'm taking as many with me as I can before I split my home.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
62You literally can't get one gas tank away from a city in the contiguous 48. Remember that the average car has 300-400 miles on a tank. The furthest you can get from a road is 21.7 miles. For each state, the average "most-remote" location is less than 7 miles from a public road.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canad ... nd%20back.
Look to history for the worst examples of shtf. Sherman's march. San Francisco, 1906. Hurricanes Harvey, Katrina, Sandy. 9/11. All of 2020. Stocking up for 6 weeks is probably over the top for anything in the past century. Six months is probably excessive for anything since the Revolution. The worst case scenario isn't grid down zombie apocalypse. It's Jan 6th done by competent fascists.
You don't resist fascism by bunkering down. You resist it by organizing to rise up.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canad ... nd%20back.
Look to history for the worst examples of shtf. Sherman's march. San Francisco, 1906. Hurricanes Harvey, Katrina, Sandy. 9/11. All of 2020. Stocking up for 6 weeks is probably over the top for anything in the past century. Six months is probably excessive for anything since the Revolution. The worst case scenario isn't grid down zombie apocalypse. It's Jan 6th done by competent fascists.
You don't resist fascism by bunkering down. You resist it by organizing to rise up.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
63Ok but considering gridlock even from a natural disaster people get stuck on freeways and run out of gas before getting out of town. Even fuel supply trucks get stuck.
I'm just saying bugging out is a bad option. God bless those EV people. Good luck getting a charge when the grid is down. This isn't going to be some 18 or 19th century SHTF. There will be roving bands of shit heads everywhere.
Hunkering down in some fascist takeover is better than running. Stand your ground sort of speak, And absolutely organize your neighborhood. You should already be part of some organization. Being complacent just because Biden won POTUS is not a smart idea.
I'm just saying bugging out is a bad option. God bless those EV people. Good luck getting a charge when the grid is down. This isn't going to be some 18 or 19th century SHTF. There will be roving bands of shit heads everywhere.
Hunkering down in some fascist takeover is better than running. Stand your ground sort of speak, And absolutely organize your neighborhood. You should already be part of some organization. Being complacent just because Biden won POTUS is not a smart idea.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
64It depends on one’s location. I’m totally surrounded by Trumpers. They would be organizing to purge us. I can either wait to get reported and taken in by the gestapo, or move to a safer location.
Why the majority of The left has penchant to disarm itself is beyond me.
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Why the majority of The left has penchant to disarm itself is beyond me.
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Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
65"I don't like guns!"INVICTVS138 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm
Why the majority of The left has penchant to disarm itself is beyond me.
Need I say more?
Frankly, I had hoped to live my life out never owning a gun. Then TFG was elected and my worst fears started coming true.
While I appreciate the various designs, clever solutions, exquisite fit and finish, and the joy of hitting the bullseye, I never, EVER forget that from the very first, guns were designed to kill people, and almost every gun design began as a "Weapon of War", from the harquebus, to the 16" guns on the USS Missouri, to the latest and greatest assault rifles used by foot soldiers were created to kill other people. Secondarily, they are for killing animals, either game for food, or pest control.
My older son describes my Kel-Tec Sub2K as "a toy" but I don't think of it that way, but rather as an option for a very particular contingency. Every single one of my firearms was selected for its own contingency.
But that doesn't mean I don't understand the fear, both rational and irrational. Guns kill. That is their primary purpose.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
66true enough and if we lived in an ideal world, we would have no need of such things.
but we don't. the government is not always there to protect us, in fact sometimes (especially if you're a POC or a woman or since 2016) the government IS the threat.
every living thing has a right to defend itself, by whatever means available. use your rights, or lose them.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
67The sad truth.lurker wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:52 pmtrue enough and if we lived in an ideal world, we would have no need of such things.
but we don't. the government is not always there to protect us, in fact sometimes (especially if you're a POC or a woman or since 2016) the government IS the threat.
every living thing has a right to defend itself, by whatever means available. use your rights, or lose them.
We've been killing each other with fists, sticks and stones for as long as we've existed. We can pretend it's the guns, but it isn't.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
68Oh, I clearly and fully agree. But understanding your opponents and their thinking has been acknowledged as critical to strategy since at least Sun-Tzu 2,500 years ago.lurker wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:52 pmtrue enough and if we lived in an ideal world, we would have no need of such things.
but we don't. the government is not always there to protect us, in fact sometimes (especially if you're a POC or a woman or since 2016) the government IS the threat.
every living thing has a right to defend itself, by whatever means available. use your rights, or lose them.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
69IMO the primary threat is roving bands of right wing militia's, not the government or criminals as much. Heck, even Homeland Security agrees with that # 1 is white supremacist organizations. Ain't the Ruskies anymore.
I love my Sub2K, fits great in my Go Go bag. I can take it in any back pack with a couple happy sticks and I'm good. It does look and feel toy ish.YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:37 pm My older son describes my Kel-Tec Sub2K as "a toy" but I don't think of it that way, but rather as an option for a very particular contingency. Every single one of my firearms was selected for its own contingency.
But that doesn't mean I don't understand the fear, both rational and irrational. Guns kill. That is their primary purpose.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
70I've been doing more work with rimfire rifles . I have centerfire rifles and shotguns. However much of my focus has been on setting up several rimfire rifles for use to harvest small game, pest removal, and defense against other human beings. Two of the rimfire rifles I had purchased years ago(Marlin Model 795 and Smith&Wesson 15-22) . The last was a Rossi RS22 (of which I just may pick up a 2nd and possibly a 3rd that can be used by family members). Plus .22LR is still more available and affordable in my area .
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
71Me too...INVICTVS138 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:39 pm It depends on one’s location. I’m totally surrounded by Trumpers. They would be organizing to purge us. I can either wait to get reported and taken in by the gestapo, or move to a safer location.
Why the majority of The left has penchant to disarm itself is beyond me.
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I have dozens of guns, but they're not going to help me when I'm the only non-republican for miles. If the SHTF, I will very quickly become a refugee seeking refuge in states that are sane.
I just need to get my son through one more year of high school and then I can move the fuck out of redneck heaven, back to somewhere sane. Been eyeballing western Oregon, perhaps Colorado...maybe even back to California.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
72From what I've seen the majority of those on the right (including "All-in" Trumpsters) aren't the threat many would like to think. The people around my way would rather stick close to their home turf. What I observed during the 2020 riots were people sitting back, watching and waiting for the rioters to leave the cities to bring that same chaos to the small towns and rural communities. They made no mention nor did I see/hear of any plans to go on the offensive. The people around me were very much of the mindset of digging in and protecting each other.
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
73I have one pistol under a pillow and this in my night stand.
I had to fire off a round in my house long time ago and I'll tell ya - a 12 ga round with double ought buckshot makes a real f'ing mess. Gets the job done but messy. So just say no to firing shotguns in the house.
I had to fire off a round in my house long time ago and I'll tell ya - a 12 ga round with double ought buckshot makes a real f'ing mess. Gets the job done but messy. So just say no to firing shotguns in the house.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
74Anymore I'm only into "old" guns and don't do "new" or truly "modern" guns anymore, but OMG the Sub2K is just SO cool!!
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”
Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?
75Yup, mine takes glock mags and happy sticks!! I keep think 0 man I really should buy a glock to go with it. But nah, no likeyFrontSight wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:40 pm Anymore I'm only into "old" guns and don't do "new" or truly "modern" guns anymore, but OMG the Sub2K is just SO cool!!
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”