Case separation question

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shinzen
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Re: Case separation question

Post by shinzen »

dandad wrote:
shinzen wrote:Not a traditional borescope from Prudence, but a neat gadget none the less:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HG ... UTF8&psc=1

I dig that it hooks up the smartphone, is waterproof, and has lights on it. I'm sure I'll find some other uses for it as well. And for $20.....
Damn, i put that in my wish list. Been wanting one for years.

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Well don't get that specific one. Mine arrived and tested it over lunch- function is fine, but it's too big to even go into a 30 cal. Fits into the chamber, but not into the bore. Which sucks, but I have other purposes for it and now it's got some cleaning goop on it, so meh.
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Re: Case separation question

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"I was asking my dad about this. And i think it has been covered already but heres his idea.. He said some 06 to 308 conversions used inserts. So if the insert came out the 2 rounds might fire quickly if the first one fired off and was shoved up the chamber, and the second one followed right away, which might destroy the cartridge. "

But one would think there would be more shards from one or both .


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Re: Case separation question

Post by dandad »

shinzen wrote:
dandad wrote:
shinzen wrote:Not a traditional borescope from Prudence, but a neat gadget none the less:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HG ... UTF8&psc=1

I dig that it hooks up the smartphone, is waterproof, and has lights on it. I'm sure I'll find some other uses for it as well. And for $20.....
Damn, i put that in my wish list. Been wanting one for years.

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Well don't get that specific one. Mine arrived and tested it over lunch- function is fine, but it's too big to even go into a 30 cal. Fits into the chamber, but not into the bore. Which sucks, but I have other purposes for it and now it's got some cleaning goop on it, so meh.
Well for 20 bucks to inspect the chamber would be worth it in Fingers case. I would think.

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shinzen
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Re: Case separation question

Post by shinzen »

It does do that pretty well.
161228_141137.jpg
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Re: Case separation question

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Cool

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Re: Case separation question

Post by shinzen »

Looks like this might be a better option- 5.5mm so it should fit in 22 barrels even, and has adjustable LED's.

https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-eBerry ... B01M22CWOL
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Re: Case separation question

Post by dandad »

shinzen wrote:Looks like this might be a better option- 5.5mm so it should fit in 22 barrels even, and has adjustable LED's.

https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-eBerry ... B01M22CWOL
Ordering right after I get my transmission fixed.

With this I could do my own colonoscopy and save on the copay too ! Lol

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Re: Case separation question

Post by shinzen »

:roflmao: Nice.
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DwnRange
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Re: Case separation question

Post by DwnRange »

Glad you are having this checked out - your picture is excellent and looks good, but it appears "too far" into the chamber to tell IF this barrel has an insert in it. I can see the point where the taper begins and the neck all looks fine to me, but you need to measure the broken piece of brass, as to the distance back from where to the taper to the neck of the brass begins to the rupture point - that is where to be looking for signs that Fulton short-cutted the actual chambering process, had a worn fluted reamer cutting tool and/or used an insert.

My experience with Fulton Armory came from the fact I always wanted a "Tanker" Garand, chambered in the "original" 30-06 caliber. I bought one from a Houston cop (consignment at LGS who knew I wanted one in 30-06) and he had un-knowingly replaced the stock with a nicer one meant for the full sized Garand. He apparently shot the rifle, bent the op-rod as the Tanker stock is inletted differently than that an original M1 Garand stock and in doing so he cause this issue.

I bought the rifle he had messed up without a clue it was that way and it only took me one shot to tell me there was a problem with it. Not being an expert on the M1 stock/op-rod issue I sent the rifle to a Garand expert I knew at Smith Enterprise, Inc in AZ. and paid them to go through the whole rifle at a substantial cost. I had had dealing with Smith Ent on a PolyTech M14 they tweaked for me years before - they are the best with military rifles there is IMHO, probably why the US Military used "their" M14s in the sand box.

The rifle, turns out, was built at Fulton and the barrel was total FUBAR and should have never been installed in the first place (tech at Smith said it had a bulge in it like a squib load might have caused at one time as it was a GI barrel takeoff apparently no one checked before using it) - they sent the barrel back to FA and as the contacts knew each other and I had paid to have the work done RIGHT, Smith obtained a MATCH grade barrel from FA and installed it for me on my Tanker. I have yet to ever have any issues with my Tanker since. The thing is perfect.

Given I cannot see where I want to see in your picture I have no further comment other than to say let someone you know and trust, a bonified M1 Garand expert take a look to verify the rifle is safe and that your safety is paramount here. Gun shows and dealers and wannabe M1 Garand experts are rampantly passing around JUNK for sale all the time and folks like us get caught in these situations all the time - even the good folks at FA are not infallible to bad workers, cutting corners for profit and mistakes at times. Hope this is some help and wish you the best. I love my Garands they are fine rifles, I just have never been a big fan of conversions and prefer the '06 caliber.

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Re: Case separation question

Post by CDFingers »

I appreciate the concern. I did the paper clip and did not feel a seam. When I look in, I don't see a seam. Still, it always pays to have someone look at it. When a moment presents itself, I'll have someone look.

Now, since it ran fine will all ammo but this one round, I'm not inclined to panic. I'll see if I can scare up someone else's bore scope and get a pic or at least a view.

I think I'll shoot some single rounds of known good ammo and check the brass. That way the only problem will be what I already experienced with that separation. If I shoot single rounds, I won't get that second round into the chamber if it as a piece of brass in it. I don't think the thing has a chance to explode and injure me.

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Re: Case separation question

Post by Marlene »

Sounds like a plan
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DwnRange
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Re: Case separation question

Post by DwnRange »

Damaged brass is "always" a possibility as mentioned above, as this 9mm ammo here I shot one day proves:

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According to Fioccho one of their machines cause these - shot thru one of my Glocks without ever knowing it until I picked up the brass.

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Re: Case separation question

Post by dandad »

DwnRange wrote:Damaged brass is "always" a possibility as mentioned above, as this 9mm ammo here I shot one day proves:

Image

According to Fioccho one of their machines cause these - shot thru one of my Glocks without ever knowing it until I picked up the brass.
Holly smokes. Did they happen to replace the faulty products? Or just say..Oops..

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Re: Case separation question

Post by CDFingers »

Apropos this issue, I thought I knew some stuff. Turns out I saved it to my hard drive, read it, and there it sits. So I was digging in my Garand folder and found an article I'd snagged. It says not to shoot .308Win in 7.62x51 NATO guns. Has pressures and SAMMIs and all kinds of data. Naturally I did not save the actual link, only the stuff I had planned to forget :oops: , so I searched a bit with some specific strings and found the link. Here is a telling quote:
The "PSI" value cited in the TM for 7.62x51mm is very close to the CUP value published by SAAMI for .308, suggesting that .308 is perhaps a mere 2,000 CUP hotter than 7.62x51mm. What's more convincing, though, is the fact that .30-06 is listed at 50,000 PSI in the Technical Manual, which matches perfectly with its pressure in CUP according to SAAMI. The TM lists 5.56x45mm as having a pressure of 55,000 PSI which, given the time it was introduced, could be either PSI or CUP, given how closely its numbers match with SAAMI figures for .223. .30 Carbine is one of those examples of a situation where CUP and PSI match up and render the difference irrelevant.

What these numbers suggest to me is that .308 Winchester and 7.62x51mm NATO operate at nearly identical pressures, and the belief that they differ by 10,000 PSI stems from mislabeling. Taken in conjunction with the ballistics of commercial ammunition compared to military ammo, it makes a fairly convincing circumstantial evidence. I'm convinced, at least. [go to link; took out stuff here]... Safe chamber headspace for the .308 Winchester cartidge is between 1.6300 and 1.6340 inches. The equivalent minimum and maximum values for 7.62x51mm NATO chambers are 1.6355 and 1.6405 inches. ...
Whether you believe it's headspace or pressure that distinguishes .308 Winchester and 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges, you can never go wrong by avoiding the use of commercial .308 ammo in a 7.62x51mm rifle.
link:

http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

As I'd writ, I separated the box it came in from the actual ammo, having stuffed them in enblocs at home and stored the boxes.

This is shaping up to appear more as operator error, first, or weak brass/bolt-action powder, second. Or a combo there of. So when I test the Garand again, I'll be sure to use my NATO ammo in singles, then move to more than one.

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Re: Case separation question

Post by DwnRange »

dandad wrote:Holly smokes. Did they happen to replace the faulty products? Or just say..Oops..

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They said I should not have waited 6 years to shoot it and didn't do squat but then luckily it was shot in Glock 17 (an original '86 import with close to 12K thru it) which has seen worse and was undamaged. Don't no how things might have gone in any of my other nines, (Colt, HiPwr, CZs, HK, KelTecs, DWM luger, Springfield Armory) but I have had several of these situations with Glocks, even got a singed hand once from a blown out case due to a bad primer in a G19 and never had so much as a hic-cup with any of my Glocks. It's one of the reasons I own them, they go bang ever time, are tougher than woodpecker lips and eat anything.

But don't get the wrong idea here, my daily carry piece is a Detonics Combat Master 45 and 1911s are my favs in several calibers (9mm, Super 38, 45acp).

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dandad
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Re: Case separation question

Post by dandad »

DwnRange wrote:
dandad wrote:Holly smokes. Did they happen to replace the faulty products? Or just say..Oops..

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They said I should not have waited 6 years to shoot it and didn't do squat but then luckily it was shot in Glock 17 (an original '86 import with close to 12K thru it) which has seen worse and was undamaged. Don't no how things might have gone in any of my other nines, (Colt, HiPwr, CZs, HK, KelTecs, DWM luger, Springfield Armory) but I have had several of these situations with Glocks, even got a singed hand once from a blown out case due to a bad primer in a G19 and never had so much as a hic-cup with any of my Glocks. It's one of the reasons I own them, they go bang ever time, are tougher than woodpecker lips and eat anything.

But don't get the wrong idea here, my daily carry piece is a Detonics Combat Master 45 and 1911s are my favs in several calibers (9mm, Super 38, 45acp).
That's insane. Did you ask them where the expire or use by date is on their ammo? Im not impressed with their customer service.

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Re: Case separation question

Post by Buck13 »

dandad wrote: With this I could do my own colonoscopy and save on the copay too ! Lol
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