Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

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Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#1 Post by polymath » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:12 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hs-US.html

Only related to guns inasmuch as it's an illegal thing that kills people, but perhaps useful to stash in your gun control files.

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#2 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:15 pm

And heart disease killed over 800,000 Americans in 2017.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#3 Post by featureless » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:15 pm
And heart disease killed over 800,000 Americans in 2017.
Yes, but gluttony and sloth are not controlled substances. ;)

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#4 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:27 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:15 pm
And heart disease killed over 800,000 Americans in 2017.
Yes, but gluttony and sloth are not controlled substances. ;)
Um, remember New York's former mayor? (not the Trump hand puppet) :no:
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#5 Post by highdesert » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:21 pm

That's a 2016 article about 2015 data the focus is right though, it overtook gun deaths from all causes (homicide, suicide, accidental etc.). And drug overdose deaths may have been underestimated, this is from a 2017 article.
Another report earlier this week in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine found that the number of drug overdoses involving opioids between 2008-2014 was likely underestimated by 24%. When looking at overdose deaths involving heroin, the percent of overdose deaths were underestimated by 22%. These differences are likely attributed to the growing use of synthetic opioids like street fentanyl that medical examiners and health departments may not have included initially on death certificates. Experts have previously said the reported numbers of deaths were underestimated, but this is the first study to quantify just how much.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/health/d ... 1528820035

That picture says it all, "Which is more deadly?". I blame the media for obsessing on firearms and not on the bigger killer drugs.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#6 Post by senorgrand » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:25 pm

The War on Drugs has failed. But gun prohibitionists want to bring the same mentality to reducing violence...
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#7 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:45 pm

Massachusetts is suing Perdue Pharmaceuticals and several other opioid manufacturers for false advertising, withholding vital information from doctors and patients, and for the costs to the state of treating their victims.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#8 Post by SwampGrouch » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:58 pm

Prohibitions create black markets. One feature of any black market is inconsistent quality. Addicts don't OD deliberately (when you're dead you can't get high, and they want to get high again), they OD when the stuff they shoot has only been stepped on once or twice instead of four or five times.

Fuck the drug war and the prohibition. Treat addiction as the public health problem it really is and give addicts legal access to a clean supply. Then watch the bottom drop out of associated crime. There'll still be problems around addiction, but they'll be one Hellofalot more manageable.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#9 Post by featureless » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Well said, Swampgrouch.

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#10 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:51 pm

SwampGrouch wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:58 pm
Prohibitions create black markets. One feature of any black market is inconsistent quality. Addicts don't OD deliberately (when you're dead you can't get high, and they want to get high again), they OD when the stuff they shoot has only been stepped on once or twice instead of four or five times.

Fuck the drug war and the prohibition. Treat addiction as the public health problem it really is and give addicts legal access to a clean supply. Then watch the bottom drop out of associated crime. There'll still be problems around addiction, but they'll be one Hellofalot more manageable.
I agree with you.

:sarcasm: what is the Drug Industrial Complex going to do if we handle drug addiction as you describe. I mean think of all the unemployed DEA agents and other drug enforcement officers. Along with the budget cuts the police departments will face when they can’t get funds from Asset Forfeiture. The big hit is the drug companies. They might have to do research into drugs that cure disease. Drug reps may have to find honest work. :sarcasm:
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#11 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm

BTW it’s not just the heroin, but the Fentanyl the dealers are cutting the heroin before selling it. Fentanyl is mass produced by drug companies just like the other opioids, OxyContin, Vicodin, and others. These are first usually used as a prescription and then evolve into addiction.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#12 Post by highdesert » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:37 pm

dupe pls remove
Last edited by highdesert on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#13 Post by highdesert » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:41 pm

highdesert wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:37 pm
SwampGrouch wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:58 pm
Prohibitions create black markets. One feature of any black market is inconsistent quality. Addicts don't OD deliberately (when you're dead you can't get high, and they want to get high again), they OD when the stuff they shoot has only been stepped on once or twice instead of four or five times.

Fuck the drug war and the prohibition. Treat addiction as the public health problem it really is and give addicts legal access to a clean supply. Then watch the bottom drop out of associated crime. There'll still be problems around addiction, but they'll be one Hellofalot more manageable.
:thumbup:

It affects many more families than guns and it crosses class lines.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#14 Post by CDFingers » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 am

Drugs, both legal and illegal: public health issue. Obviously, making heroin illegal does just what SwampGrouch said: creates a black market where quality is dubious.

America must manage this issue better.

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#15 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:59 am

Now we also see how the Turnip is even killing the idea of people getting treatment for the opioid addiction.
Once again, the Trump administration’s efforts to undermine the Affordable Care Act (ACA) are threatening to reverse progress made toward addressing the nation’s opioid woes.

Last week, the administration announced it would not defend the ACA against a lawsuit filed by conservative states, and the Justice Department filed a brief asking a federal court in Texas to throw out the individual mandate to buy insurance, along with popular provisions preventing insurers from denying or charging more for coverage based on pre-existing medical conditions, including opioid use disorders.

About 130 million Americans who are too young to qualify for Medicare have a pre-existing condition, including an estimated 1.9 million living with an opioid use disorder. Despite efforts by Congress public health leaders to expand access to treatment in response to an epidemic of deadly overdoses, only a fraction of people living with an opioid disorder receive treatment for the disease.

The Trump administration’s decision not to defend a law on the federal books is rare and clearly politically motivated, even as polls show that the ACA’s pre-existing conditions provision is popular among voters. Republicans in Congress threw out the individual mandate penalty with their recent tax overhaul, giving Texas and 19 other states the green light to file a lawsuit claiming that the ACA is unconstitutional.

The Affordable Care Act required insurance plans to start covering specific types of addiction treatment and prevents insurers from denying coverage because a patient has received treatment for opioid dependence in the past. That means both people who are seeking treatment for opioid disorders and those who have successfully completed treatment could be denied health coverage if the White House and its allies are successful in their campaign to dismantle key parts of the ACA.

Only 21 percent of people covered by private insurance and living with opioid dependence received treatment in 2016, according to a recent survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation. People living with opioid disorders and covered by the Medicaid program, which was greatly expanded across the country under the Affordable Act, were twice as likely to receive treatment.
https://truthout.org/articles/trumps-at ... disorders/

And making matters even worse many states have or are looking to make work a requirement to receive Medicaid. Talk about a Catch-22, your required to work to get Medicaid to treat your opioid addiction, but due to you addiction you can’t pass a drug test to work. I’m sure the Oligarchy Reptilians are just proud as punch to have dreamed that one up. Actually it was Aldous Huxley, in his novel Brave New World that had the masses subdued by a form of TV Sex and Drugs (Soma). Take your drugs, watch Reality TV/Faux News and all is right with the world.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#16 Post by SwampGrouch » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:53 am

TrueTexan wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm
BTW it’s not just the heroin, but the Fentanyl the dealers are cutting the heroin before selling it. Fentanyl is mass produced by drug companies just like the other opioids, OxyContin, Vicodin, and others. These are first usually used as a prescription and then evolve into addiction.
True about Fentanyl. I'm told the bulk of it used in the illegal drug trade is veterinary stuff made in China and diverted or sold outright into black market channels. I'm not clear on why they don't cut it and sell it under its own name. (I know first hand that it's mercy in IV form when you have a kidney stone the size of a largish almond and you're telling God, "Just kill me so I can go to Hell and be done with it.")
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#17 Post by TrueTexan » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 am

This shows how good the US is at stopping the Opium trade.
Between 2002 and 2017, the U.S. government has allocated roughly $8.62 billion to fight narcotics in Afghanistan. But the drug trade remains entrenched. Opium is Afghanistan’s largest cash crop, reaching an export value of $1.5 billion to $3 billion in recent years. In 2017 alone, poppy cultivation was thought to support 590,000 full-time jobs — which is more people than are employed by Afghanistan’s military and security forces.
https://taskandpurpose.com/afghanistan- ... ar-report/

Wouldn’t be cheaper just to buy all the opium crop each year? We could charge it to the DoD and DEA budget for the War On Drugs.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#18 Post by highdesert » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:46 pm

Capitalism extends into illegal drugs, if there is a need someone will fill it. The Volstad Act taught us that making liquor illegal didn't work, the same is true for drugs but legislators are still moralizing. An older but good PT article.
A major misconception involving addiction is the idea that certain substances are, all by themselves, addicting. That a drug can captivate an unwary victim is an idea popularized in the 1936 film Reefer Madness. In that movie, it took just a few puffs of marijuana to turn a gentleman into a slobbering dope fiend; his health shattered; his life ruined. While such heavy-handed propaganda might be met with less credulity today, the fact remains that most Americans still believe the basic message - Just Say No or you'll wind up hooked. What makes this truly odd is that, according to numerous national surveys, most Americans have tried marijuana and didn't become dope fiends. Indeed, several years ago, a group of US congressmen attempted to come forward, admit their prior pot use and put an end to a draconian system that confiscates property and puts people in prison for years. But the electorate clearly wasn't ready for any such reappraisal of the drug laws and the movement quickly died.

But how is it, you ask, that all those congressmen that were candid about their drug use didn't get hooked Reefer Madness style? The reason is because addiction depends, first and foremost, upon having an addictive personality. Such people, estimated at perhaps 10%-15% of the population, simply don't know when to stop. Do you enjoy a glass or two of wine with dinner? If so, why not have ten or twenty? Did you ever buy a lottery ticket on your birthday? If so, why not sell your house and buy 100,000? How about going to church on Sunday? Does it make you feel good? If so, why not go every day twice a day? The point here is simple: Too much of a good thing can be bad. And yet people with addictive personalities will get hooked on alcohol and gambling and religion. Believe it or not, being addicted is nothing more than an out-of-control habit. The difference between that 10%-15% and everyone else is the difference between using and abusing.

During the Vietnam War, drug use was endemic among troops serving in Southeast Asia. And yet, returning veterans suffered addiction rates that were no higher than those found in the general population. It would be difficult to think of a more perfectly designed experiment to show, once and for all, that dependence is mostly a matter of personality. And yet, when it comes to winning hearts and minds, the War in Vietnam was as nothing when compared to the War on Drugs. Although this second battle has completely failed in reducing illegal drug use, it has succeeded brilliantly in convincing Americans that they need to be saved from themselves. It's a belief that was sold so well that hardly anyone noticed that Drug Czar Bill Bennett was an addictive personality hooked on both food and gambling.

Look At It This Way
The problem with the War on Drugs is that it creates far more harm than it eliminates. If drugs can't be kept out of prisons, how can you possibly keep them out of a mostly free society? The "War" won't go away because by now it's become a major industry. It creates jobs on one side of the law and provides the opportunity for huge financial rewards on the other. But, like Prohibition before, making a law that can't be enforced does little more than erode the public's respect for the law. When alcohol was illegal, the upper classes had theirs imported while the common folk drank it from bathtubs. No one so inclined went without. And nothing has changed. Bush turned (supposedly) from drugs and alcohol to religion, thus substituting one addiction for another. Clinton told us, with a straight face, that he never inhaled. So here's a simple question: Would either of these gentlemen be better off today if they had been sentenced to long prison terms? If so, why not provide them with a belated opportunity to serve time? If not, then why should the kid down the street be put away for doing the same thing?

Asking such simple questions should make it plain to anyone with any common sense that the truth regarding drugs and addiction is concealed behind so many layers of ignorance and emotion, deception and special interests that it will remain a major problem for a long time to come.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ersonality

The addictive personality - religion and food are ok, drugs are not.

Drug availability and occupational stress help explain why ''physicians have the highest rate of opiate addiction of any group,'' according to Dr. O'Brien. He also notes that physicians have high rates of abuse of alcohol and mood-altering prescription drugs. Charles Winick, a sociologist at the City College of New York, has also linked availability and stress to high rates of drug dependence among physicians, particularly psychiatrists and surgeons.
https://www.nytimes.com/1983/01/18/scie ... found.html
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#19 Post by senorgrand » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:42 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 am
This shows how good the US is at stopping the Opium trade.
Between 2002 and 2017, the U.S. government has allocated roughly $8.62 billion to fight narcotics in Afghanistan. But the drug trade remains entrenched. Opium is Afghanistan’s largest cash crop, reaching an export value of $1.5 billion to $3 billion in recent years. In 2017 alone, poppy cultivation was thought to support 590,000 full-time jobs — which is more people than are employed by Afghanistan’s military and security forces.
https://taskandpurpose.com/afghanistan- ... ar-report/

Wouldn’t be cheaper just to buy all the opium crop each year? We could charge it to the DoD and DEA budget for the War On Drugs.
These numbers are insane.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#20 Post by TrueTexan » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:53 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:42 pm
TrueTexan wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:24 am
This shows how good the US is at stopping the Opium trade.
Between 2002 and 2017, the U.S. government has allocated roughly $8.62 billion to fight narcotics in Afghanistan. But the drug trade remains entrenched. Opium is Afghanistan’s largest cash crop, reaching an export value of $1.5 billion to $3 billion in recent years. In 2017 alone, poppy cultivation was thought to support 590,000 full-time jobs — which is more people than are employed by Afghanistan’s military and security forces.
https://taskandpurpose.com/afghanistan- ... ar-report/

Wouldn’t be cheaper just to buy all the opium crop each year? We could charge it to the DoD and DEA budget for the War On Drugs.
These numbers are insane.
They are insane. Think about the the amount of money we could spend on helping people with addiction issues. Also if we just leagalized the drugs taxed them like we do cigarettes and alcohol and used at least half of the tax revenue for true real education on the effects of the drugs along with tobacco and alcohol with their side effects especially long term use. We could save a ton of money on healthcare cost and crime prevention. Also save money from no longer needing the DEA here or abroad. Help Mexico and other countries by collapsing the drug cartels.

But it won’t happen because there are to many fingers in the anti-drug pie making big profits here and overseas including Big Pharm and Law enforcements agencies, private prisons, drug rehab centers, etc.
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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#21 Post by eelj » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:16 am

Universally heroin is an illegal commodity so it is a cash only enterprise. Food is a legal one so it can be bought on credit.

Universally more money is spent on heroin alone than food. The cartels don't keep all of that money in safes they send it to banks to be laundered, the banks love the illegal drug trade so the laws will stay the same.

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#22 Post by Mikeinmich » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:03 am

I call bullshit on the "addictive personality" garbage. That's not how actual drug/alcohol addiction works. Nice way to go back to the "addicts are just weak" crap.

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Re: Heroin now kills more people than guns: Drugs overdoses claimed 50,000 lives in the US last year

#23 Post by Wino » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:45 am

Adding another cause of death that exceeds gun deaths adds absolutely nada to the discussion. It means NOTHING, convinces no one that guns are better than other death contributors. Pure mental masturbation at it's finest.

Did accomplish a decent discussion on drugs and the stupid drug war, though. LOL
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