Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

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Eris
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Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#1 Post by Eris » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:15 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... ns-n871066
Reinstating the federal assault weapons ban that was in effect from 1994 to 2004 would prohibit manufacture and sales, but it would not affect weapons already possessed. This would leave millions of assault weapons in our communities for decades to come.

Instead, we should ban possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, we should buy back such weapons from all who choose to abide by the law, and we should criminally prosecute any who choose to defy it by keeping their weapons. The ban would not apply to law enforcement agencies or shooting clubs.
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#2 Post by featureless » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:22 pm

With all due respect, Swalwell can fuck right off. We could ban swimming pools and save more lives without infringement of a constitutional right.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#3 Post by Eris » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:22 pm
With all due respect, Swalwell can fuck right off. We could ban swimming pools and save more lives without infringement of a constitutional right.
Human right. It's protected by the Constitution, but fundamentally it's a human right and nations that deny it, like Australia and the UK are engaged in human rights violations.
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#4 Post by featureless » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:30 pm

I don't disagree with the human right part. Just noting that it was enumerated in the Constitution as well. :)

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#5 Post by SubRosa » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:35 pm

Make law, enforce same, and voila!

Instant American bloodbath.

This isn't the Empire :no:

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#6 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:42 pm

99% of the time I agree with Eric Swalwell, but not on this. Every semi-automatic rifle can be can "defined" as an "Assault weapon". Then again, so can a baseball bat or a crow bar.
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#7 Post by featureless » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:20 pm

Here is the thing, we had a 10 year ban on AWs and the CDC studied it's efficacy. Conclusion: no statistically significant reduction in AW deaths. I speculate that it is because it less than 300 per year for all rifles. And that most folk follow laws. And that criminals don't. And that murderers are innovative and have little difficulty killing people without an AW. But, best to fuck us all for the agenda, eh?

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#8 Post by khlavkalash » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:05 am

"forcing existing owners to sell their weapons or face prosecution"
This is the same guy who threatened to nuke gun owners.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#9 Post by Bisbee » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 am

But... Rep Swalwell did make an exemption for cops and shooting clubs. We’re a club. Hell it’s right there in our name! Amiright?
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#10 Post by shinzen » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:24 am

Yeah. This would get ugly really quick.
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#11 Post by CDFingers » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 am

Bisbee wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 am
But... Rep Swalwell did make an exemption for cops and shooting clubs. We’re a club. Hell it’s right there in our name! Amiright?
Yeah--this thread is pretty hilarious. To be fair, it's "military style assault weapons." And do not even think it's going to fly. Sheesh.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#12 Post by Eris » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:38 am

CDFingers wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 am
Bisbee wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 am
But... Rep Swalwell did make an exemption for cops and shooting clubs. We’re a club. Hell it’s right there in our name! Amiright?
Yeah--this thread is pretty hilarious. To be fair, it's "military style assault weapons." And do not even think it's going to fly. Sheesh.

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It's all about pushing the envelope. If they push for this then they can turn around and present the original AWB as a "compromise".
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#13 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:53 am

CDFingers wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 am
Bisbee wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 am
But... Rep Swalwell did make an exemption for cops and shooting clubs. We’re a club. Hell it’s right there in our name! Amiright?
Yeah--this thread is pretty hilarious. To be fair, it's "military style assault weapons." And do not even think it's going to fly. Sheesh.

CDFingers
As a fellow Californian, you know it doesn't stop there. We now see that the Justice Department/ATF can redefine terms unilaterally. There's no real functional difference between a "military-style assault weapon" and a Mini 14 or BAR, unlike a trigger and a bump stock. Hair's not on fire, just watching the progressively boiling frogs while we should be focused on something that can be accomplished, makes a real difference to the human condition and doesn't result in Dems getting kicked out of office come next election.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#14 Post by highdesert » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:08 pm

featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:53 am
CDFingers wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 am
Bisbee wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:48 am
But... Rep Swalwell did make an exemption for cops and shooting clubs. We’re a club. Hell it’s right there in our name! Amiright?
Yeah--this thread is pretty hilarious. To be fair, it's "military style assault weapons." And do not even think it's going to fly. Sheesh.

CDFingers
As a fellow Californian, you know it doesn't stop there. We now see that the Justice Department/ATF can redefine terms unilaterally. There's no real functional difference between a "military-style assault weapon" and a Mini 14 or BAR, unlike a trigger and a bump stock. Hair's not on fire, just watching the progressively boiling frogs while we should be focused on something that can be accomplished, makes a real difference to the human condition and doesn't result in Dems getting kicked out of office come next election.
You're right, the details are in the Rule Making (regulation writing by ATF), IIRC there is a SCOTUS case challenging federal agencies rule making. Swalwell satisfied his base, it may pass the House but unlikely to pass the Senate so he can say he did something. In many European countries to purchase a firearm you have to belong to a gun club and actively participate. Yes, come 2020 a lot of these new congress members may be history especially in purple districts.
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#15 Post by SubRosa » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:21 pm

Perhaps it will result in a new dictum from the reptilians:

"If you don't like living around guns, move to another country".

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#16 Post by VodoundaVinci » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:45 pm

So no grandfathering - if the law passes folks will have to "get rid" of their semi auto firearms? If they don't? Then what...we go door to door and arrest them/confiscate their property?

Are these people not thinking or wanting to literally start a shooting revolution? This is a terrorist act, disarming folks and confiscating property they have purchased. Are these folks nuts?

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#17 Post by sikacz » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:37 pm

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:45 pm
So no grandfathering - if the law passes folks will have to "get rid" of their semi auto firearms? If they don't? Then what...we go door to door and arrest them/confiscate their property?

Are these people not thinking or wanting to literally start a shooting revolution? This is a terrorist act, disarming folks and confiscating property they have purchased. Are these folks nuts?

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#18 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:04 pm

The idea of banning assault weapons is as stupid as the idea to ban alcohol in the 1920s. Anytime you ban something that has been available you make it more attractive to want to have it. The other problem with the assault weapon ban is they banners have never really defined what is an assault weapon. It is like the Supreme Court justice being asked what is porn and replied “I just know it when I see it”. The M1 Garland wa a great assault weapon of WWII, just ask any veteran fron Omaha Beach. Patton called it the rifle that won the war. The Banning Crowd seems to think wooden stocks make the weapon okay. Take an M1a1 with a 20 or 30 round magazine and that is okay except for the magazine size. But assemble the same weapon with a plastic stock and a pistol grip, then it is the most deadly horrible thing in the world.

In the 1930s we didn’t ban full automatic weapons we just made them very expensive to own. Had they said you can’t have one, there would be a large group wanting them no matter what use they had for them.

The same could be said for the “assault” weapon. The anti crowd has made it an attraction to want one. Had they not gone kicking and screaming to ban them there would not be the desire to have one and it would be a non issue. BTW I own a Yugoslav Underfolder in 7.62X39.

I would like to see all gun laws and regulations handled on a national level under the second amendment and keep the states and local governments out of it. All expel should have the same gun rights no matter where they live.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#19 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 pm

Nice rant, TrueTexan. Not only is it a silly concept from the "aesthetics" point of view, it misses the mark on effectiveness. If the stated goal is to reduce gun homicides, this just doesn't cut it. FBI says there were less than 400 homicides from all rifles in 2016. Assault weapons, however defined, are only a percentage of this 400 and likely a small percentage (I've seen estimates of less than 5 percent but don't recall the source). Over 10,000 people are murdered every year with handguns... So we are attempting to ban something based on its appearance in an effort to save less than 400 people per year in clear violation of an enumerated right. Banning things doesn't stop criminals. Murder is and has been illegal for, well, forever. But criminals still do it. We would be far better off and reduce unnecessary deaths far more by focusing on nutrition, healthcare and drug addiction--but those things take actual work and a commitment to a better world, neither of which seem to interest politicians.

What if the Dems push to ban anal sex to stop gay men from spreading HIV, essentially just as deadly as a 5.56 or .308 but at a much higher cost from a treatment perspective? "According to the latest estimates from the CDC, an estimated 38,500 people became newly infected with HIV in the United States in 2015. Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men bear the greatest burden by risk group, representing an estimated 26,200 of these new HIV infections." And no, I am absolutely not suggesting this as a good idea, just using it to show the outrage that would occur on constitutional grounds. Muh rights!!! Except for guns. Instead, we rightfully treat HIV as a medical health issue (which it is) and pursue root cause mitigation (condoms, education, treatment, etc.).
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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#20 Post by DispositionMatrix » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:10 pm

featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 pm
Instead, we rightfully treat HIV as a medical health issue (which it is) and pursue root cause mitigation (condoms, education, treatment, etc.).
To be clear, firearm prohibitionists have been hard at work pushing the idea that what they call "gun violence" is a public health issue but with gun ownership portrayed as the root cause to be eradicated.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#21 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:14 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:10 pm
featureless wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 pm
Instead, we rightfully treat HIV as a medical health issue (which it is) and pursue root cause mitigation (condoms, education, treatment, etc.).
To be clear, firearm prohibitionists have been hard at work pushing the idea that what they call "gun violence" is a public health issue but with gun ownership portrayed as the root cause to be eradicated.
And just like anal sex, murder, alcohol abuse and intravenous drug use, it will remain "uneradicated" when prohibited.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#22 Post by khlavkalash » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:15 pm

Even if a good amount of those 400 murders were AR-15, so what? It's one of the most popular guns. I'll wager that a significant number of road fatalities are F-150s or Camrys.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#23 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:18 pm

khlavkalash wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:15 pm
Even if a good amount of those 400 murders were AR-15, so what? It's one of the most popular guns.
Don't disagree. Just trying to add some numbers to the hand waving to show the miss fit of the goal/means.

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#24 Post by khlavkalash » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:33 pm

featureless wrote:
khlavkalash wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:15 pm
Even if a good amount of those 400 murders were AR-15, so what? It's one of the most popular guns.
Don't disagree. Just trying to add some numbers to the hand waving to show the miss fit of the goal/means.
No, I was just adding to your post. Not contradicting!

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Re: Rep Swalwell (D-CA) - ban semi automatic guns with no grandfathering

#25 Post by featureless » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:18 pm

khlavkalash wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:33 pm
featureless wrote:
khlavkalash wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:15 pm
Even if a good amount of those 400 murders were AR-15, so what? It's one of the most popular guns.
Don't disagree. Just trying to add some numbers to the hand waving to show the miss fit of the goal/means.
No, I was just adding to your post. Not contradicting!
Oh, I didn't think you were contradicting. I just get so tired of my/our Democratic representatives holier than thou boot stomping 2A rights while proclaiming all others to be sacred that I like to throw out numbers to comfort myself. I'll be over in my corner self soothing... :fun:

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