Vermont Dems, Republican gov impose mag ban, EBCs, ERPOs, purchase age restriction, bump stock ban

1
The bill was originally about the disposition of "unlawful and abandoned firearms."

https://legislature.vermont.gov/bill/status/2018/S.55

ETA: Upated title. Original: "Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill"
Last edited by DispositionMatrix on Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Hope it dies in one of the chambers or the governor vetoes it. Vermont has always been logical on guns. The opposition campaign should go after Everytown, Bloomberg and the imports waging this campaign. This law is trying to impose NY gun laws on Vermont and that should be the rallying cry - "No New York Gun Laws in Vermont".
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

7
Passed the House. The Senate passed its own bill.

House (85 Y, 59 N, 6 NA):
  • Yea: 74 D, 7 P, 3 R, 1 I
  • Nay: 7 D, 0 P, 46 R, 6 I
  • Not voting/Absent: 3 D, 3 R
Senate (17 Y, 14 N):
  • Yea: 15 D, 2 P
  • Nay: 6 D, 7 R
The bill was originally to regulate drug sales. It was hollowed out to by amendment to be about the disposition of abandoned firearms. It was then further amended to include the mag ban and 10-day wait. This is going to be a huge PR victory for the gun prohibition lobby since Vermont got along just fine without these laws for 227 years and they do not address a need demonstrated in the state.

Gun Restrictions Expected to Advance in Vermont

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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I mean it wouldn't likely affect me much. I don't have a want for a big scary rifle, heck the only reason I bought the 15 round and 25 round magazines I bought was for convenience but to be frank personally I can take the convenience or leave it.

I'm not even particularly hung up on the constitutional end of the argument as something that really gets me. And by that I mean, If society came together in sufficient numbers as to alter the constitution in such a way to reflect their wishes, if I were to disagree who am I to stand in the way of society in such high numbers? I'd disagree but could at least swallow the idea of such a large majority being on the same page.

What's really bothering me is the route to get there. The opposition to this position is arguing based largely on perception, emotion, and suppression of countering ideas.

I could not so easily stomach society coming to such an agreement if it came at the expense of free expression of all viewpoints.

With Emma Gonzalez, the media will completely control the counter points to paint them, and us as all crazy and nothing else. They know kids will emotionally attach themselves to celebrity status so, they will paint her that way. But when media reports those who counter her, they will only post things like these.

http://www.newser.com/story/257052/fake ... vivor.html

The butthole who made the GIF of her tearing up the constitution

http://www.newser.com/story/257055/he-s ... -kids.html

The butthole from Eagles of Death Metal.

The opposition they will report will only be of this type of stuff, so as to paint a picture that the whole of those who disagree, are like these buttholes.

That's my biggest problem with this stuff. Not that people don't see stuff my way, but that they don't get the whole story.

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Vermont House Gives Final Approval to Landmark Gun Bill
Reps. Corey Parent (R-St. Albans) and Eileen Dickinson (R-St. Albans) argued that without such an exemption, the bill would jeopardize hundreds of jobs at Century International Arms, a global firearms dealer with a factory in Franklin County.

“It seems hypocritical to me,” countered Rep. Brian Cina (P-Burlington). “Why would we ban something and then allow it to be made here?”

The House voted 123-21 to allow Vermont gunmakers to manufacture and export high-capacity magazines.

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Gun Control Opponents Pack Vermont Statehouse Ahead of Vote
MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — Scores of hunter-orange wearing gun control opponents are packing the Vermont Statehouse as the House prepares to debate gun restrictions.
The opponents include a number of Vermont police officers who have banded together in a group called Vermont Law Enforcement Officers Against Gun Control.
Weirdest thing I've heard this week^.
Separately, lawmakers are expected to give final approval this week to legislation that would make it easier to take guns from suicidal people and perpetrators of domestic violence.

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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DougMasters wrote:I mean it wouldn't likely affect me much. I don't have a want for a big scary rifle, heck the only reason I bought the 15 round and 25 round magazines I bought was for convenience but to be frank personally I can take the convenience or leave it.

I'm not even particularly hung up on the constitutional end of the argument as something that really gets me. And by that I mean, If society came together in sufficient numbers as to alter the constitution in such a way to reflect their wishes, if I were to disagree who am I to stand in the way of society in such high numbers? I'd disagree but could at least swallow the idea of such a large majority being on the same page.

What's really bothering me is the route to get there. The opposition to this position is arguing based largely on perception, emotion, and suppression of countering ideas.

I could not so easily stomach society coming to such an agreement if it came at the expense of free expression of all viewpoints.

With Emma Gonzalez, the media will completely control the counter points to paint them, and us as all crazy and nothing else. They know kids will emotionally attach themselves to celebrity status so, they will paint her that way. But when media reports those who counter her, they will only post things like these.

http://www.newser.com/story/257052/fake ... vivor.html

The butthole who made the GIF of her tearing up the constitution

http://www.newser.com/story/257055/he-s ... -kids.html

The butthole from Eagles of Death Metal.

The opposition they will report will only be of this type of stuff, so as to paint a picture that the whole of those who disagree, are like these buttholes.

That's my biggest problem with this stuff. Not that people don't see stuff my way, but that they don't get the whole story.
May I quote your post to another forum I am part of?
"The feeling of partisan loyalty is an obstacle to rational thought." -Randall Parker

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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darrenf wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:12 pm
DougMasters wrote:I mean it wouldn't likely affect me much. I don't have a want for a big scary rifle, heck the only reason I bought the 15 round and 25 round magazines I bought was for convenience but to be frank personally I can take the convenience or leave it.

I'm not even particularly hung up on the constitutional end of the argument as something that really gets me. And by that I mean, If society came together in sufficient numbers as to alter the constitution in such a way to reflect their wishes, if I were to disagree who am I to stand in the way of society in such high numbers? I'd disagree but could at least swallow the idea of such a large majority being on the same page.

What's really bothering me is the route to get there. The opposition to this position is arguing based largely on perception, emotion, and suppression of countering ideas.

I could not so easily stomach society coming to such an agreement if it came at the expense of free expression of all viewpoints.

With Emma Gonzalez, the media will completely control the counter points to paint them, and us as all crazy and nothing else. They know kids will emotionally attach themselves to celebrity status so, they will paint her that way. But when media reports those who counter her, they will only post things like these.

http://www.newser.com/story/257052/fake ... vivor.html

The butthole who made the GIF of her tearing up the constitution

http://www.newser.com/story/257055/he-s ... -kids.html

The butthole from Eagles of Death Metal.

The opposition they will report will only be of this type of stuff, so as to paint a picture that the whole of those who disagree, are like these buttholes.

That's my biggest problem with this stuff. Not that people don't see stuff my way, but that they don't get the whole story.
May I quote your post to another forum I am part of?
Sure,

aint no copyright on my ramblings ;)

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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DougMasters wrote:
darrenf wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:12 pm
DougMasters wrote:I mean it wouldn't likely affect me much. I don't have a want for a big scary rifle, heck the only reason I bought the 15 round and 25 round magazines I bought was for convenience but to be frank personally I can take the convenience or leave it.

I'm not even particularly hung up on the constitutional end of the argument as something that really gets me. And by that I mean, If society came together in sufficient numbers as to alter the constitution in such a way to reflect their wishes, if I were to disagree who am I to stand in the way of society in such high numbers? I'd disagree but could at least swallow the idea of such a large majority being on the same page.

What's really bothering me is the route to get there. The opposition to this position is arguing based largely on perception, emotion, and suppression of countering ideas.

I could not so easily stomach society coming to such an agreement if it came at the expense of free expression of all viewpoints.

With Emma Gonzalez, the media will completely control the counter points to paint them, and us as all crazy and nothing else. They know kids will emotionally attach themselves to celebrity status so, they will paint her that way. But when media reports those who counter her, they will only post things like these.

http://www.newser.com/story/257052/fake ... vivor.html

The butthole who made the GIF of her tearing up the constitution

http://www.newser.com/story/257055/he-s ... -kids.html

The butthole from Eagles of Death Metal.

The opposition they will report will only be of this type of stuff, so as to paint a picture that the whole of those who disagree, are like these buttholes.

That's my biggest problem with this stuff. Not that people don't see stuff my way, but that they don't get the whole story.
May I quote your post to another forum I am part of?
Sure,

aint no copyright on my ramblings ;)
I always prefer to ask first. Thanks.
"The feeling of partisan loyalty is an obstacle to rational thought." -Randall Parker

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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In final chapter of gun debate, Senate narrowly passes expansive restrictions
A landmark bill that would make a series of changes to the state’s gun laws has received final approval from the General Assembly.
Gov. Phil Scott, a Republican, says he intends to sign the three bills that introduce new restrictions on gun use and ownership.
The historic legislation was the subject of intense debate over the past seven days in the Democratically controlled Legislature. The House held two marathon sessions and the Senate engaged in contentious committee hearings and spirited floor debate.
227 years and all it took was a Democratically-controlled legislature and a governor afraid of student activists.

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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FacetiousMarmot wrote:Magpul might have an opinion. http://www.recoilweb.com/free-pmags-to- ... 36138.html
GunsenseVT will probably show up to protest or take delivery of pmags so they can destroy them. They are the group RKBA supporters used to mock for making their rallies appear much bigger than they were, but I guess they get the last laugh. I could see them getting children to show up.

Magpul did something similar to this "airlift" when Colorado passed its ban.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Vermonter here. I can say that I am pretty frustrated with this bill. I don't understand why my legislators decided to back some of these measures. Universal background checks I'm for, but the 10-round limit and age restrictions just seem like a bunch of overkill for a state that has a pretty low crime rate. Mind you, I don't personally believe those magazine limits and age restrictions for adults work. It almost feels like it came out of the blue, but at the same time, given the way that the policy discussions have gone over the past month or so, I was worried it might come to this. Apologies for venting. New Hampshire is looking better every day.
"People say satire is dead. It's not dead - it's alive and kicking in the White House." Robin Williams
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting." Sun Tzu

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Mntnrunner516 wrote:Vermonter here. I can say that I am pretty frustrated with this bill. I don't understand why my legislators decided to back some of these measures.
Really? You don't know?
Mntnrunner516 wrote:Universal background checks I'm for, but the 10-round limit and age restrictions just seem like a bunch of overkill for a state that has a pretty low crime rate.
When you get gun prohibition you get gun prohibition. That's the problem. The mag ban certainly isn't going to saves lives, but that is not it's purpose. It is a foothold for the equally-ridiculous restrictions to come that will target hardware.

What is next for Vermont as Democrats work to impact the ownership of guns or gun parts? Adding forced surrender to the new ban? A suppressor ban? An "assault weapon" ban?
Mntnrunner516 wrote:Mind you, I don't personally believe those magazine limits and age restrictions for adults work.
Restrictions are not nor ever have been about the measures working.
Mntnrunner516 wrote:It almost feels like it came out of the blue,...
Heh. I see what you did there.
Mntnrunner516 wrote:New Hampshire is looking better every day.
New Hampshire could suffer the kind of defeat Vermont is enduring at any time. If you are <=50, you probably will live to see New Hampshire and Maine succumb to the prohibitions of the civilian disarmament lobby.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
(béɟ) 59-pɯɐ

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

23
It would be humorous were politicians not now deferring to minors with regard to public policy.
13-year-old gubernatorial candidate supports tougher gun laws
Sonneborn was one of about 2,500 people who participated in the March for our Lives in Montpelier.

He said he would like to see an assault-weapons ban added to Vermont's current bill.
My guess is this will help in the effort to clobber Phil Scott for not supporting an AWB for the state. Feeling political winds, he threw gun owners under the bus to secure his place for 2018. Now he is going to be hit from _both_ sides.
"The bill is a good building block but it doesn’t have the kind of progressive gun reform Vermont needs," Sonneborn said.
"Needs" based on what data?

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:10 pm It would be humorous were politicians not now deferring to minors with regard to public policy.
So now kids don't have to go to school, can opt out of classes that they don't like, can use social media during class time, can ditch PE...Vermont Republicans would be smart to dump Scott or vote against him.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Vermont Democrat adds AWB, mag ban, 10-day wait to state bill

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Vermont lawmakers send gun control package to governor
A bill mandating magazine capacity restrictions, installing a ban on bump stocks and raising the age to buy guns in Vermont is headed to Gov. Phil Scott.

The measure, S.55, has been controversial and needed 16 of 30 state Senators to approve changes made by the House last week. In the end, the gun control proposal picked up 17 “yes” votes, though lost one of its prior supporters along the way.
As for Scott, he said he is ready to sign the bill into law as well as two others that are still pending in the legislature.

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