Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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CDFingers wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 am
so I've never felt that panic. I would suppose it's as real as a teen aged couple installing their first condom together.

CDFingers
Yes, but less exciting.

Word is county council has found gun shops are essential services and may remain open.

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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CDFingers wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 am
featureless wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:54 pm
Not sure I agree that first time buyers are so dangerous. All of us were at one time. I didn't get any training for years and could somehow manage to follow the four rules (without even knowing them).

Perhaps we should poopoo first time gas oven buyers and the heightened risk of blowing up their house. Seems kind of elitist along the lines of "guns for me but not for thee." I'm all for training but...

Edited: sorry, this sounds a little harsh. Feeling a little wrung out and defensive of those trying to do what they think is best for their families in face of all this. Actually spent part of my morning helping an associate figure out CA gun laws. She's retired military but not a current gun owner.
I didn't take it as harsh. I might have headed it off if I'd've said first time buyers in a panic situation. I've had guns since I was eight, so I've never felt that panic. I would suppose it's as real as a teen aged couple installing their first condom together.

CDFingers
I wouldn't say all first time buyers are dangerous, but because of the "panic buying" some could be. We know that some people go through the NICS background check but never go through with a purchase. And now that gun shops are being shuttered statewide and with the CA 10 day waiting period, many might not get access to their purchases until the crises is close to the end.
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Is a sheriff allowed to make these decisions? I didn't realize they had law making authority.

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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DougB1946 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:13 am
Is a sheriff allowed to make these decisions? I didn't realize they had law making authority.
It appears from the LA Times article that the sheriff is enforcing the public health order issued by the LA County health officer. State governments give health officers sweeping powers, in Ohio the state health officer over ruled a judge to close down the state primary election.
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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featureless wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:50 am
Word is county council has found gun shops are essential services and may remain open.
highdesert wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:28 am
DougB1946 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:13 am
Is a sheriff allowed to make these decisions? I didn't realize they had law making authority.
It appears from the LA Times article that the sheriff is enforcing the public health order issued by the LA County health officer. State governments give health officers sweeping powers, in Ohio the state health officer over ruled a judge to close down the state primary election.
Sheriff suspends efforts to close L.A. gun stores amid coronavirus restrictions
Sheriff Alex Villanueva confirmed the development on Twitter early Wednesday morning, writing that department “efforts to close nonessential businesses have been suspended” and that Gov. Gavin Newsom would “determine what qualifies” as one.

Villanueva didn’t explain the rationale for the about-face in his post but linked to a Fox 11 news segment in which reporter Bill Melugin said the sheriff told him in a phone call that “the county’s top lawyer put out a legal opinion that she believes gun stores are essential businesses and should remain open.”

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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“the county’s top lawyer put out a legal opinion that she believes gun stores are essential businesses and should remain open.”
Turner's and other gun stores would be happy if they're allowed to reopen.
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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The LA County Sheriff and the LA County Board of Supervisors haven't gotten along since Villanueva was elected.
The L.A. County Board of Supervisors is taking steps to remove Sheriff Alex Villanueva as the head of the county’s emergency operations center during the coronavirus outbreak, a move he called a “pure power grab at the worst time possible.”

Three supervisors reached late Wednesday said the proposed change is months in the making and stems from the need to centralize disaster operations after a fragmented response during the deadly Woolsey fire, which killed three people and burned nearly 97,000 acres in Los Angeles and Ventura counties in 2018.

But Villanueva said the timing suggests retaliation for his decision to close gun shops during the pandemic, viewing them as nonessential businesses.

“This is pretty much a silent coup, what they’re trying to orchestrate,” Villanueva said. “We should be worried about masks, about test kits, and I have [Supervisor] Kathryn Barger worried about guns and ammunition.”
Ron Hernandez, president of the Assn. for Los Angeles Deputy Sheriffs, said the public and deputies are “sick and tired” of the political tussles between the sheriff and the board. “I believe the community is focused on keeping their families safe during this pandemic, and our deputies share that sentiment. These petty squabbles over power during a crisis are exactly what we don’t need,” he said. “To the sheriff and the Board of Supervisors, we say: Try acting like adults and focus on the emergency.”

After Villanueva announced this week that gun shops needed to close their doors, he said he learned that the county’s legal counsel had issued an opinion that such stores were essential businesses. Early Wednesday, Villanueva tweeted that the Sheriff’s Department’s “efforts to close nonessential businesses have been suspended” and that Gov. Gavin Newsom would “determine what qualifies” as one. When asked about the back-and-forth during a news conference later Wednesday, Newsom said he would defer to the sheriff on the issue.

Villanueva said he had sought to minimize the threat posed by first-time gun buyers panic-purchasing weapons at a time when homes are crowded, raising the possibility of suicides and domestic violence. “We’ll have to mop up the mess left behind,” he said.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... oronavirus
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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A coalition of gun owner groups filed a federal lawsuit Friday against the Los Angeles County Sheriff, Gov. Gavin Newsom and state and county health officials seeking to block the closure of gun shops during the coronavirus shutdown. Sheriff Alex Villaneuva closed gun stores in L.A. County Thursday to everyone except police and licensed security company employees after the governor deemed that firearms sellers are considered nonessential businesses during California’s shutdown of commerce in an effort to limit and slow the spread of the coronavirus.

Villanueva took the action after county lawyers early this week had stalled an effort to close the gun stores. Then Newsom gave the OK for Villaneuva to decide what happened to local gun stores in the county during the ordered statewide stay-at-home order. In the lawsuit filed in federal court in Los Angeles on Friday seeking declaratory relief, the gun owner groups characterized the closure as a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

“California’s attack on fundamental rights in times of emergency must be stopped in its tracks,” said Alan Gottlieb, executive vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation. The groups accused Newsom and the sheriff of using the ongoing crisis to promote a gun control agenda. “California’s state and local governments cannot simply suspend the Constitution,” Firearms Policy Coalition President Brandon Combs said. The lawsuit charges that California is closing the only lawful means to buy firearms and therefore “shutters the Constitutional right to bear arms.” “Such a de facto prohibition on the right to keep and bear arms is categorically unconstitutional under the 2nd Amendment.” The novel coronavirus pandemic, the attorneys for the group argue, is a situation that requires people to maintain safety, and guns and ammunition are the “most essential business function possible” at such a time.

The suit’s plaintiffs include the owners of Gun World in Burbank and it also names both the state and Los Angeles County public health officer who created the state and county orders. It also challenges the state action under the 14th Amendment, which bars states from making or enforcing any law that abridges the privileges or immunities of citizens. The suit notes the San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore deemed firearms stores “a valuable public service” and warned people would turn to the black market if they closed.

Villanueva, a gun owner, in announcing his move to close gun stores to the general public but not to police and security guards, said he supports the 2nd Amendment but added that given the spread of the coronavirus in Los Angeles County, only essential businesses should be open. “It’s not an issue of banning the sales of guns, which the 2nd Amendment is about,” he said. The sheriff said long lines and crowds at firearms stores went against the efforts to maintain social distancing, and that new guns on hand when people were staying inside for lengthy periods could lead to trouble. But the sheriff said the issue would be up to individual police chiefs in L.A. County cities that are outside his patrol territories.

Amid the pandemic, officials have strengthened rules ordering all nonessential businesses to cease in-person operations and close to the public. Exceptions include food and medical services, transportation and social services.

Villanueva sought to implement the closure earlier this week but was told by county lawyers that gun shops could be considered essential under county and state measures to encourage social distancing and cut the spread of the virus. The opinion forced the sheriff to backtrack and suspended the closure. But then Gov. Gavin Newsom’s office said sheriffs do have the authority to make such closures. The cities of Pasadena and Los Angeles have also closed their gun stores.

Gun shops, according to the sheriff, were one of several types of nonessential businesses that continued to be open and garnered complaints. He said those who don’t comply would be cited and could lose their business license. Some owners had already closed or were scheduling appointments. Gun sales are surging in many U.S. states, especially in those hit hardest by the coronavirus, such as California. Among the factors fueling the increase are concerns from first-time gun buyers who fear an unraveling of the social order and those who worry that the government might use its emergency powers to restrict gun purchases.

“Twenty-eight years ago, the LAPD had to withdraw their officers to protect their safety,” said California Gun Rights Foundation Chairman Gene Hoffman. “We hope that the stay-home orders will mean that our public servants will not become infected in this pandemic, but the Constitution guarantees that everyone has a right to acquire arms and defend themselves should law enforcement not be able to respond before it’s too late.”
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... -amendment
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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What a shock.
LA Gun Store Closures Upheld By Federal Judge
In his decision, Birotte declared that Los Angeles County and the state of California were within their emergency powers to close gun stores, ruling that the orders should be viewed under an intermediate standard of judicial scrutiny. That muddy middle legal ground allows for judges like Birotte to sign off on almost any gun control law that doesn’t amount to a complete and permanent ban on entire classes of firearms. As the judge wrote in his order denying the temporary injunction:
In applying intermediate scrutiny to the County and City Orders, the Court must consider (1) whether the government’s stated objective is significant, substantial, or important, and (2) whether there is a reasonable fit between the challenged regulation and the asserted objective. See Chovan, 735 F.3d at 1139. The City’s and County’s stated objective—reducing the spread of COVID-19, a highly dangerous and infectious disease—undoubtedly constitutes an important government objective. Moreover, because this disease spreads where “[a]n infected person coughs, sneezes, or otherwise expels aerosolized droplets containing the virus,” (Dkt. No. 21) the closure of non-essential businesses, including firearms and ammunition retailers, reasonably fits the City’s and County’s stated objectives of reducing the spread of this disease. Accordingly, Plaintiffs fail to demonstrate a likelihood of success on the merits of the Second Amendment claim against the County and City Orders.
The ruling by the Obama-appointed judge isn’t all that surprising, honestly. Courts around the country have been relying on intermediate scrutiny for years in order to uphold gun control laws, which is one reason why gun owners are hopeful that the U.S. Supreme Court’s upcoming decision in NYSRPA v NYC will declare that strict scrutiny, or the highest level of judicial review, is warranted when it comes to laws dealing with our right to keep and bear arms.

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Birotte’s ruling doesn’t put an end to the litigation, which will undoubtably be appealed to the 9th Circuit.
The ball is in Villanueva's court.
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Because 'not being able to buy guns or ammo certainly doesn't directly conflict with the 2a under Heller" goes the logic... It's lucky these judges are not scientists or the world would indeed be described as flat.

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

Post by CDFingers »

The argument can be made that it is a temporary hiatus, not a change in normal things. "You should already have your guns and ammo. They are not banned. Buy one when this is over." Not much consolation for the frightened folks who want a gun. Lord willing they'll survive to become folks who visit the range every couple weeks.

You know, bright side and all.

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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:)

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Turners has this on their website:
UPDATE TO OUR CUSTOMERS
April 7, 2020

IN REGARDS TO SOME DELAYS WE'VE BEEN SEEING IN SOME DELIVERY OF FIREARMS.

Please be patient as everyone is running short staffed during this pandemic. Under Penal Code section 28220(f)(4), the Department of Justice (DOJ) has up to 30 days to complete background checks on purchasers of firearms and ammunition. Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, DOJ typically completed these checks within Penal Code Section 26815(a)'s 10-day waiting period. COVID-19 protective measures have impacted the ability to increase the personnel resources in the DROS [Dealer Record of Sale] unit to address the recent sustained increase in firearms and ammunitions transactions without compromising the health and safety of our employees and the community. As a result, firearms and ammunition dealers and purchasers should know that as DOJ employees continue to perform the statutorily required background checks throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, circumstances may compel that background checks are completed after the expiration of the 10-day waiting period. DOJ will continue to strive to provide the best service and complete these checks in the shortest time possible.
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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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Turner's v. Garcetti
Application to stay enforcement:
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf

Support:
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf
The arbitrariness of the City’s Order is
highlighted by the fact that Respondents allow Petitioner Traders to remain open to service clients
for other needs but will not allow it to sell firearms. (Taylor Decl., ¶ 8.) As if its customers are
somehow less susceptible to contracting or spreading COVID-19 when visiting Traders for any
purpose other than purchasing a firearm. Respondents have no legitimate reason why people
should be allowed to engage in a whole host of non-essential activities while not having access to
their constitutional right to self-defense, particularly during a time of dubious social stability.
Declarations of support:
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf
https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/up ... ential.pdf

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Re: Democratic L.A. County Sheriff orders firearm dealers to close

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12. As of the date of this declaration, Turner’s Reseda location [in the City of Los Angeles] has approximately 147 DROS [dealer record of sale] transactions involving a firearm pending with DES [state transaction website]. Many of these transactions have already been “approved” and can legally be delivered to their respective customers. But because the City of Los Angeles has ordered Turner’s Reseda location to cease all operations, these transactions cannot be completed.

13. Once a transaction has been “approved” in DES, the customer must complete the
transaction within 30 days. Failure to complete the transaction will require the customer to complete a new ATF 4473 Form and require Turner’s to submit a new DROS transaction through DES, effectively requiring the entire transfer process to start over.

14. On April 6, 2020, [CA] DOJ issued a notice in DES which states that DOJ employees will continue to process firearm and ammunition transactions submitted through DES.
The City of LA is an outlier, hope they lose this one.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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