Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

51
I am with rolandson on this: I have no problem with licensing gun owner, but I do have a problem with licensing guns. If I need to get a license to use a gun, that's fine by me. I really would like to see some sort of universal training for all guns owners. But at the same time I do *not* want the government to know what guns I have. They don't need to know.
106+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

52
Are we going to support requiring a license to express free speech, or to use a computer or cell phone? What other bill of rights amendments are going to need a license? When we do this to a right, it has just become a privilege. I can’t go along with that at all. I fully support education but licensing is a different matter all together. I’m a licensed professional and do not have the right to practice my profession without it. Once I stop maintaining the annual requirements my privilege is revoked. That concept is contradictory to any amendment in the bill of rights.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

53
There's a stronger constitutional case behind registration than licensing, for the reasons enumerated above.

Registration is another game entirely. Commerce clause, for one. Taxation, for another. Many states tax property, including cars. If a state were to impose property taxes on firearms, registration would be an essential mechanism towards that end. This would allow the wealthy to maintain collections and stockpiles while potentially pricing the poors out of their rights.

But wait. They aren't doing that. Even in California or New Jersey. Hmm. Wonder what's up with that?

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

54
That kind of taxation would impose a burden on the poor and could eventually lead to only the privileged elites being able to afford to protect themselves and their families. It is exactly the kind of thing bloomie and crew would push. The privileged will always have the resources to afford a gun not so much the disadvantaged. We don’t do poll taxes for the same reasoning why would we want it on any right, especially an amendment in the bill of rights. Making the right to defend oneself a commodity is not a good idea unless you’re privileged.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

55
Eris wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:09 pm I am with rolandson on this: I have no problem with licensing gun owner, but I do have a problem with licensing guns. If I need to get a license to use a gun, that's fine by me. I really would like to see some sort of universal training for all guns owners. But at the same time I do *not* want the government to know what guns I have. They don't need to know.
Nothing good can ever come of the Government having a list of who I am and what firearms I possess. I'm willing to be vetted/licensed to take them certain places under certain circumstances but possession can never be allowed to be licensed.

I am unable to comply.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

56
VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:04 am
Eris wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:09 pm I am with rolandson on this: I have no problem with licensing gun owner, but I do have a problem with licensing guns. If I need to get a license to use a gun, that's fine by me. I really would like to see some sort of universal training for all guns owners. But at the same time I do *not* want the government to know what guns I have. They don't need to know.
Nothing good can ever come of the Government having a list of who I am and what firearms I possess. I'm willing to be vetted/licensed to take them certain places under certain circumstances but possession can never be allowed to be licensed.

I am unable to comply.

VooDoo
Yes. The same for a tax/registration, it requires a list and that can lead to eventual confiscation (bans are as good as confiscation). A list gives them knowledge. Registration and licensing leads to the same end.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

57
I fail to see the point of these perennials discussions on licensing and registration. As a group I thought we settled on advocating education, training, root cause mitigation and such. The advancement of ideas that create unequal access and hinders the ability of all people to practice a right seems counter to this group’s goals. I had hoped people here would work to advance our goals into the political arena instead of the talking points of those who would remove those rights. Yes, we do need to be in the discussion, but we need to push our ideas and not accept the illiberal ideas pushed by the current democratic party.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

58
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:24 am <snip> I had hoped people here would work to advance our goals into the political arena instead of the talking points of those who would remove those rights. Yes, we do need to be in the discussion, but we need to push our ideas and not accept the illiberal ideas pushed by the current democratic party.</snip>
<sarc> :sarcasm: That's Absurd. Just keep doing what we have been doing and the Blue Franchise will eventually yield to what The People want and we'll turn the tide. That's the way people with Power and Money operate - they listen and adapt and just because we will support them *NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO* they are not incentivized to not give US what we want. </sarc> :sarcasm:

Except maybe for the Millions of $ they are bribed with to do what they are told by the Establigarchy..I'm sure they have our best interests at heart despite what they do. :roflmao:

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

59
we have two major political parties here. one lies(bad) to us about gun control and says that no, they would never take our guns(good). the other tells the truth(good) and says they will take our guns(bad). so ultimately, on this particular issue, there's little to choose between them, and we have to rely on a conservative supreme court to rule (when they find the time) in our favor if we can only get them to attend to the relevant question. the rest of the bill of rights are pretty clearly threatened by one party in particular. i'm pretty sure i don't have to name names here. it seems an easy, if less than optimal choice to me.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

60
VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:04 am
Eris wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:09 pm I am with rolandson on this: I have no problem with licensing gun owner, but I do have a problem with licensing guns. If I need to get a license to use a gun, that's fine by me. I really would like to see some sort of universal training for all guns owners. But at the same time I do *not* want the government to know what guns I have. They don't need to know.
Nothing good can ever come of the Government having a list of who I am and what firearms I possess. I'm willing to be vetted/licensed to take them certain places under certain circumstances but possession can never be allowed to be licensed.

I am unable to comply.

VooDoo
Possession is already licensed in Massachusetts for both long guns and handguns.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

62
sig230 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:33 pm The US is the only developed nation that does NOT have a list of who is a citizen.
So. I still don’t want that list to include who owns guns. I’m also a dual citizen of a country with very accurate lists of who is a citizen. They also have lists of every gun owner and every gun is licensed. However, you can only buy a gun with a license for sporting purposes and hunting. There is no such thing as a gun for self defense. They do not have a second amendment. Comparing other countries to us is pointless. I prefer the right to self defense.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

63
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:13 pm
sig230 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:33 pm The US is the only developed nation that does NOT have a list of who is a citizen.
So. I still don’t want that list to include who owns guns. I’m also a dual citizen of a country with very accurate lists of who is a citizen. They also have lists of every gun owner and every gun is licensed. However, you can only buy a gun with a license for sporting purposes and hunting. There is no such thing as a gun for self defense. They do not have a second amendment. Comparing other countries to us is pointless. I prefer the right to self defense.
I see everyone chewin' on this by looking to make a law about it. I really see that as a fail, as no law will be made.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

64
CDFingers wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:48 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:13 pm
sig230 wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:33 pm The US is the only developed nation that does NOT have a list of who is a citizen.
So. I still don’t want that list to include who owns guns. I’m also a dual citizen of a country with very accurate lists of who is a citizen. They also have lists of every gun owner and every gun is licensed. However, you can only buy a gun with a license for sporting purposes and hunting. There is no such thing as a gun for self defense. They do not have a second amendment. Comparing other countries to us is pointless. I prefer the right to self defense.
I see everyone chewin' on this by looking to make a law about it. I really see that as a fail, as no law will be made.

CDFingers
And in that case there should be a push to address the actual issue at hand, violence and it’s underlying causes instead of wasting time and losing votes during a critical election. Frankly any politician or person pushing restricting rights and bans at this point is guilty of the devastation that follows this upcoming election.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

65
This is a public forum. There are multiple government agencies that may have archived copies of everything published here, from the NSA to the Library of Congress. It would be gratuitously easy for them to assemble a list of firearms associated with any given profile. Depending on how you take your pictures, they may have serial numbers.

The last forum I worked with, we had ISP monitoring tools available to track any given user, and I'm sure the alphabet soup agencies can do better. If you're using a cell phone to access the forum, they almost certainly know who you are. If they don't, they can find out.

If you're worried about the government knowing who you are and what guns you own, you might've considered that before joining any public organization whose theme involved guns. Just a thought.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

67
Cower and beg, Bitches. We know who you are and we are coming for yer guns. Pathetic. I'm right here...come get my guns, Robert Francis "Beto" O'Rourke, or any alphabet agencies under the jurisdiction of the next President or the current one. I am oath bound to defend the Constitution of the US...I have never broken the law, never cheated lied nor not paid my taxes. Married to the same girlie I lived in a car with 41 years ago and I am the ideal Citizen.

Make a law that makes me a criminal and come get my guns and throw me in jail or kill us all in a no knock raid. But I'm not kneeling...you'll have to beat me to my knees. Strangely I am not afraid as I took the oath willingly and with open eyes. And I will not support, in words or in votes, a person who has peed on his oath of office and seeks to subjugate the Constitution after taking millions from the most corrupt, Oligarchy owned Corporation in the World, Burisma. Come get 'em.

Bitches. But I'm not begging and I'm not kneeling for the bullet or the train trip. Not Skeered of Bitches.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

68
VodoundaVinci wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:30 pm Cower and beg, Bitches. We know who you are and we are coming for yer guns. Pathetic. I'm right here...come get my guns, Robert Francis "Beto" O'Rourke, or any alphabet agencies under the jurisdiction of the next President or the current one. I am oath bound to defend the Constitution of the US...I have never broken the law, never cheated lied nor not paid my taxes. Married to the same girlie I lived in a car with 41 years ago and I am the ideal Citizen.

Make a law that makes me a criminal and come get my guns and throw me in jail or kill us all in a no knock raid. But I'm not kneeling...you'll have to beat me to my knees. Strangely I am not afraid as I took the oath willingly and with open eyes. And I will not support, in words or in votes, a person who has peed on his oath of office and seeks to subjugate the Constitution after taking millions from the most corrupt, Oligarchy owned Corporation in the World, Burisma. Come get 'em.

Bitches. But I'm not begging and I'm not kneeling for the bullet or the train trip. Not Skeered of Bitches.

VooDoo
Aside from the colorful references, agree with the sentiment.

Just because they know wings and you know is still no reason for me to approve of their positions by voting for authoritarian corporatist assholes.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

69
VodoundaVinci wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:15 am Leave the guns - fix the Health Care issue ie. Medicare for all. You want Democrats elected and to kill the Republican Party?

Give us Medicare for All and Democrats will rule.

Guns? It'll only alienate millions of potential Democrat voters.

VooDoo
The Dems can't do that, because the DNC is in the pocket of big business. They don't want universal health care because it will kill their profits.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

70
I certainly don't approve of 'em tracking us like that. But that goes back to PATRIOT Act days.

Even if they didn't, even if they were not allowed to by law, and even if they followed those laws, there are open-source operations that would do the lifting privately, Bloomberg probably bankrolls one already. My understanding is that the NRA worked very hard to put together their own private list. Funny how that kind of information gets into federal hands.

Y'all have an outdated, yet curiously modern, take on privacy rights. In small town Revolutionary America, odds were everyone in your community knew who owned what guns, who was sleeping with who, and what their financials were like. People have eyeballs and gossip is faster than light. The concept of anonymity is a post-industrial and urban concept. It only works in communities too large for everyone to keep tabs on each other, so it's possible to fade into the background. Those of us who live in small communities have never had that luxury. Big Data just made the world a little more like a village. One with an eidetic memory.

The barn door is open.

Re: US Democrats' "Handgun Licensing and Registration Act"

71
Look at all the trouble folks are having making laws. I think we should take the feminist approach. You look at the goal and find a way to reach consensus. Men usually want to take the authoritarian approach and make laws and apply punishments. Just this one tiny thread shows it--not to mention but I will every online discussion on this topic.

The feminist approach would be to agree on a goal--that we have: safety--then devise a non law way to achieve it because the law way leads to failure.

In creating a consensus, nearly everyone has to have a buy in. So in our society, non gun owners need a say in gun safety, and the feminist way says that if you can't accept that others own guns you can't figure in the solution.

See what we do there? In order to reach consensus, non gun people have to be taught that no matter which laws you make, some guy with a lathe is going to make a gun. Maybe two, and sell one. You have to accept that guns will always be in America. That's what they have to give up, that they will never be able to eradicate and prevent guns.

Once they accept that, they can begin to come to terms on what means gun safety--four rules--and it's easy stuff. Then they have to accept that people need to be taught how to be safe with guns. Where do we learn stuff? School. Once you accept that the kid is going to get behind the wheel of a car, you instill Driver's Ed and Driver's Training. Thus is born out of agreement Gunner's Ed and Gunner's Training. And air rifle competition among schools.

Now, what do they get for such a compromise--accepting that guns exist and training their own kids how to be safe with them? Technically they should get reduced accidents for sure, and hopefully reduced bad-gun use due to peer pressure. They would also get--after a generation--a societal sense of comfort around guns so that if someone brings one around, it's like someone brought in a basketball: "Headed to the range?" "Yeah. Bullseye practice."

Huge societal buy-in on this, kids, yeah. We know no laws will be made that will be successful. We have to go all feminist on they ass. I don't think the path to the goal includes laws.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests