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Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:49 am
by YankeeTarheel
All cats are degenerates! Having had 7(?) cats over nearly 40 years--including the stinkin' rotten orange little shit...and the one he beats up daily, I can affirm they are, indeed, degenerates.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:51 pm
by UnderNoPretext
lurker wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:24 am ...i've never seen an armed otter...
And now you have...
E73CBEFC-965D-459B-901D-34D6A954A155.jpeg

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm
by ElectricSailboats
I am the OP and have stayed off this as the reactions I got were different than what I expected. But I want to bring it back to the original topic with some caveats so that everything is crystal, crystal clear.

1. I do not expect any veteran poster here to be overly kind, I just request you not be immediately dismissive

2. I do not want violence after the election nor do I want to prepare for it. I do want liberals with guns to be organized so as to give conservatives pause so they do NOT resort to violence after the election - something I fear. An opportunist, like Trump, basically does things not based on right or wrong, but if one can get away with it or not. I want the opportunist conservatives out there to think twice about initiating violence.

3. Of note, I have heard something interesting that gives me greater confidence in post-election stability. My cousin is about as Republican as they get but he is voting for Biden. The reason is that he has a number of friends at the Colonel/equivalent ranks and up levels in the military who have told him that despite the upper echelons of the military being mostly Republican, they are mostly voting for Biden because Trump is such a threat to national security as commander and chief. That gave my cousin great pause and he is going against his conservative roots to vote for a Democrat for the first time. But, it is the analysis of the upper military levels that gives me more faith that even if there are calls to violence by Republicans or right-wing militias, the military will not be a puppet of Trump's to undermine democracy and stay in the White House despite an electoral win by Biden.

4. I view liberal militia organization as both a discipline (for myself in staying on top of my accuracy, etc), organization for our country in line with the US Constitution, a social outlet (and the value of this is important) and a vehicle for helping liberals understand guns and not see gun ownership as a conservative only thing. It also would help conservatives see gun owners who advocate for waiting periods and background checks but who do not want to take everyone's guns away as many conservatives falsely believe.

I realize my reach out about liberal militias won't go anywhere as they don't exist, but I also think some of the veteran posters on here should see it's worth organizationally and not as a call to violence.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:29 pm
by Bisbee
Right now “lib” gun militias seem pretty limited to the Black Lives Matter camp who decided to gun up, some choosing to march in unison and wear leathers (a nod to the Black Panthers?). While those groups definitely are political in nature, I see most others are organically grown and actively attempting to provide neighborhood security after the police have abandoned them during this time of civil unrest. So they are filling a need for Self Defense more than training for some possible outcome.

This indicates to me that Left leaning folks do not naturally gravitate to organized militias but can do so quickly in times of need.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:25 pm
by sikacz
I don’t know how little or much left leaning or truly left gravitate or don’t to militias. I know they exist. I suspect they simply do not broadcast their existence within a society that is generally hostile to them.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:34 pm
by damnitman
In most states it is illegal to organize and train an (unofficial) armed body. Most of the "militias" that are so visible and that we are concerned about are already illegal, they are just not prosecuted. Maybe that is something we can change going forward.

I don't know of any liberal militaristic training groups, and wouldn't want to be involved with one if it existed. We, as liberals, should not have to fight the illegal militias, that is what we hire so many law enforcement organizations. The cops are paid and are trained to do the job, they just need to be motivated.

If, as an individual, you want to learn to use firearms, there are plenty of places to do that, but you are going to need to keep your politics to yourself if you want to take advantage of the training, otherwise you will be treated like shit. That is just the way they roll.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm
by sikacz
damnitman wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:34 pm In most states it is illegal to organize and train an (unofficial) armed body. Most of the "militias" that are so visible and that we are concerned about are already illegal, they are just not prosecuted. Maybe that is something we can change going forward.

I don't know of any liberal militaristic training groups, and wouldn't want to be involved with one if it existed. We, as liberals, should not have to fight the illegal militias, that is what we hire so many law enforcement organizations. The cops are paid and are trained to do the job, they just need to be motivated.

If, as an individual, you want to learn to use firearms, there are plenty of places to do that, but you are going to need to keep your politics to yourself if you want to take advantage of the training, otherwise you will be treated like shit. That is just the way they roll.
Perhaps the left is smarter.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:59 pm
by CDFingers
ElectricSailboats wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm I am the OP and have stayed off this as the reactions I got were different than what I expected.

--snp--

I realize my reach out about liberal militias won't go anywhere as they don't exist, but I also think some of the veteran posters on here should see it's worth organizationally and not as a call to violence.
I apologize if I frisked you with photons. Turns out you're not a troll. I prefer to question first and discuss shooting later.

We have a cool prepping forum down below. The consensus seems to be to get to know all your neighbors and develop things locally. Being prepared is never a mistake.

CDFingers

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:06 pm
by sikacz
CDFingers wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:59 pm
ElectricSailboats wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm I am the OP and have stayed off this as the reactions I got were different than what I expected.

--snp--

I realize my reach out about liberal militias won't go anywhere as they don't exist, but I also think some of the veteran posters on here should see it's worth organizationally and not as a call to violence.
I apologize if I frisked you with photons. Turns out you're not a troll. I prefer to question first and discuss shooting later.

We have a cool prepping forum down below. The consensus seems to be to get to know all your neighbors and develop things locally. Being prepared is never a mistake.

CDFingers
This. As I said get to know your locals.

Many of try to stay within what is legal and refrain from discussions that may incriminate. So I say again, get to know your locals. Some may even be vets.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:28 pm
by wings
ElectricSailboats wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm I am the OP and have stayed off this as the reactions I got were different than what I expected.
No worries. As we've noted, there are legal concerns of all sorts.

While there is a long and storied history of government infiltration of protest groups, I'd personally worry more about right-wing agitators trolling. Think the Planned Parenthood videos from a few years back. It's a point of pride here that we're more level-headed and better behaved than some of the sorts who might prefer a "conservative gun club." There are those who would like to make the case otherwise.

Never meant to imply ill intent on your part. Not everyone comes here with good will though, and it's wise for us to remember that.

The First Amendment, hallowed be its name, protects the right to peacefully assemble. Even for Communists, Black Panthers, Antifa. The issue with informal militias is not having friends who shoot. It's groups that plan and train to take up arms against the lawfully elected governments of their states and the USA, or operate without accountability to the civil authorities.

Remember, the Founders were traitors to the British Crown. Justifiably so, but traitors nonetheless.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm
by ZenArcade
My neighbors? I'm f'd then. :think:

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:33 pm
by CDFingers
"I am the OP" is one of the top ten top bumper stickers evah. I'll give y'all two days before I trademark it.

A member of the top seven quotes found on the Liberal Gun Club forum about posting for the first time: "...the reactions I got were different than what I expected".

:yahoo:

ZenArcade wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm My neighbors? I'm f'd then. :think:

Peace and security through superior firepower and deceit.

CDFingers

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:40 pm
by sikacz
ZenArcade wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm My neighbors? I'm f'd then. :think:
Local could mean your state, perspective. I know my neighbors, none of them would be good in a really bad emergency.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:05 pm
by Wino
sikacz wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:40 pm
ZenArcade wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm My neighbors? I'm f'd then. :think:
Local could mean your state, perspective. I know my neighbors, none of them would be good in a really bad emergency.
:laugh: With few exceptions in my close neighbors, we're all good prospects for future soylent green rather than ninjas/militia. :roflmao:

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:31 am
by ElectricSailboats
Thanks for all the responses and I guess I didn't realize that CDFingers and others are understandably worried about right wing trolls. There is such a distorted view of reality and ethics sometimes on the right that is used to justify actions that are not justifiable such as editing videos to misrepresent or embarrass liberal politicians, spreading false information knowingly, renacting police brutality, and destabilizing groups such as a liberal gun club, that threaten their misconstrued view that all liberals hate guns. They would rather deny reality than grapple with the grey zones that reflect reality much more than us good them bad simple view points.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:02 pm
by CDFingers
Since you're still standing, we can talk guns, eh.

CDFingers

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:30 pm
by DispositionMatrix
ElectricSailboats wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:11 pm I am the OP and have stayed off this as the reactions I got were different than what I expected. But I want to bring it back to the original topic with some caveats so that everything is crystal, crystal clear.

1. I do not expect any veteran poster here to be overly kind, I just request you not be immediately dismissive

2. I do not want violence after the election nor do I want to prepare for it. I do want liberals with guns to be organized so as to give conservatives pause so they do NOT resort to violence after the election - something I fear. An opportunist, like Trump, basically does things not based on right or wrong, but if one can get away with it or not. I want the opportunist conservatives out there to think twice about initiating violence.

3. Of note, I have heard something interesting that gives me greater confidence in post-election stability. My cousin is about as Republican as they get but he is voting for Biden. The reason is that he has a number of friends at the Colonel/equivalent ranks and up levels in the military who have told him that despite the upper echelons of the military being mostly Republican, they are mostly voting for Biden because Trump is such a threat to national security as commander and chief. That gave my cousin great pause and he is going against his conservative roots to vote for a Democrat for the first time. But, it is the analysis of the upper military levels that gives me more faith that even if there are calls to violence by Republicans or right-wing militias, the military will not be a puppet of Trump's to undermine democracy and stay in the White House despite an electoral win by Biden.

4. I view liberal militia organization as both a discipline (for myself in staying on top of my accuracy, etc), organization for our country in line with the US Constitution, a social outlet (and the value of this is important) and a vehicle for helping liberals understand guns and not see gun ownership as a conservative only thing. It also would help conservatives see gun owners who advocate for waiting periods and background checks but who do not want to take everyone's guns away as many conservatives falsely believe.

I realize my reach out about liberal militias won't go anywhere as they don't exist, but I also think some of the veteran posters on here should see it's worth organizationally and not as a call to violence.
The benefit I see of a militia is, at a minimum, it would motivate participants to maintain some of their skills. The Democratic/media bloc would have us believe "militia" is _equivalent_ to a group of seething rednecks bent on taking over the government when in reality the collection of militias in the US merely _include_ groups of seething rednecks bent on taking over the government.

But government, by its nature, seeks to control. Thus, any militia you were to join that leveled-up to a point that would enable them to knock over a gumball machine would likely end up with an informer or a federal agent. So if you're participating on the basis of making what you see as a positive contribution, be aware that the member next to you in training might be
a) a kook who just wants to kill people he/she dislikes;
b) an informer or federal agent who has an army of people dissecting your life without your knowledge;
c) an informer or federal agent who has an army of people dissecting your life without your knowledge and is trying to set up a canned hunt;
d) an informer or federal agent who has an army of people dissecting your life without your knowledge, is trying to set up a canned hunt, and is happy to serve you up to please his/her superiors even if you have nothing to do with anything illegal.

Here is a straw man opinion piece written by a policy wonk that know-nothings on the Internet are using as their evidence that even belonging to a militia is illegal in all 50 states.
The Plot Against Gretchen Whitmer Shows the Danger of Private Militias
In the swirls of disinformation that now pollute our political discourse, one is particularly dangerous: that private militias are constitutionally protected.

Although these vigilante groups often cite the Second Amendment’s mention of a “well regulated militia” for their authority, history and Supreme Court precedent make clear that the phrase was not intended to — and does not — authorize private militias outside of government control.

Indeed, these armed groups have no authority to call themselves forth into militia service; the Second Amendment does not protect such activity; and all 50 states prohibit it.
Here are the state sources cited. Note the context is the presence of militias at polling places, which is not the topic I am addressing.
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our ... ct-sheets/

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:56 pm
by wings
If you read through some of the Georgetown links, you get a sense of the variability of state laws concerning militias. There's some thought crime there. It's not illegal to belong to a militia, or to train at arms, but training "with intent" concerning civil unrest? Well, there's your huckleberry.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:44 pm
by ElectricSailboats
CDFingers wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:02 pm Since you're still standing, we can talk guns, eh.

CDFingers
barely standing :) yeah, talking guns sounds good. :shh:

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:49 pm
by Outpost716
lurker wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:24 am
Outpost716 wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:28 pm
lurker wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:08 pm armed bears are harder to get pictures of.
Is this some sort of stump the new guy thread?
Are y'all talking about wildlife-wildlife or human 'wild life'?
Should I be asking whether or not armed otters and wolves are also difficult to photograph?
:newhere: :w00t: :roflmao: :sorry:
we're mostly just playing. or it could be a form of mental illness, looseness of association, psychosis.. you can play along or play it straight or choose not to play at all. since i've never seen an armed otter, i would guess that yes, they're harder to photograph, but nowhere near as hard as a snake, which has no arms at all. but then there are octopi, which have eight arms, and squid which have ten, so an armed squid might be easy if your camera is waterproof. see? it all makes perfect sense, if your mind can handle the abrupt twists and turns.

:yes: Clear as mud. Perfect.

And while I'm here, I'll just throw out that armed boar or elk or deer would be quite a sight... although, that would make hunting season a bit more interesting.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:55 pm
by Outpost716
UnderNoPretext wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:51 pm
lurker wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:24 am ...i've never seen an armed otter...
And now you have...

E73CBEFC-965D-459B-901D-34D6A954A155.jpeg
*slacked jaw*
:blink:
I would have never, in a million years...
:blink:
The internet has everything.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:07 pm
by Outpost716
CDFingers wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:33 pm "I am the OP" is one of the top ten top bumper stickers evah. I'll give y'all two days before I trademark it.

A member of the top seven quotes found on the Liberal Gun Club forum about posting for the first time: "...the reactions I got were different than what I expected".
How's that definition go? Oh, right. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result every time.
ZenArcade wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:30 pm My neighbors? I'm f'd then. :think:
Now wouldn't be a bad time to ease into some good old fashioned prepping.
CDFingers wrote: Peace and security through superior firepower and deceit.
Agreed.
Deception and moral flexibility are viable options for survival.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:35 pm
by CDFingers
Czarist era rifle with Finnish barrel. He's retired now.
Finn.m91.bore.jpg
My brain demanded I go total recurve left handed. Now that compound just hangs in the closet. Lesser challenge than the recurve.
gripangle.JPG
CDFingers

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:53 pm
by Dreamsinger
The reason you don't see liberal militias is because organizing liberals and engineers is the functional equivalent of herding cats.

Re: Western liberal militia?

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:55 pm
by CDFingers
Dreamsinger wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:53 pm The reason you don't see liberal militias is because organizing liberals and engineers is the functional equivalent of herding cats.
Plus half of the hardest half to herd has friggin' bows and arrows, pshaw.

CDFingers