Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place?

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JerseyDog
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Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place?

#1 Post by JerseyDog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:19 am

Disclaimer: I'm asking this question straight out. If this was a right wing forum I'd approach it sideways couching ever sentence in assurances that I'm not some crazy liberal coming to take er gunz. I'm hoping I can ask this plainly here and just get an honest response without invective.

So why would any law abiding sportsman, gun enthusiast, or home defender for that matter want a suppressor? Look I love guns, I love shooting, I have no problem living in a country with a robust 2nd ammendment. But working in law enforcement the idea of people wanting to hide their shot makes my blood run cold. Guns are loud, really loud. That works great as warning, deterrent, and yes as evidence. You should never have any need to hide the fact you just operated a deadly weapon. In my mind that's just part and parcel of responsible gun ownership.

Anyways you get my point. I want to stress again I'm not here to judge. If I thought you guys were a collection of gang bangers and cartel assassins I wouldn't be here to begin with. I really do not understand at all what the attraction is.

Anyone out there want to try to explain it to me?

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#2 Post by hoosier8 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:24 am

You don't hide a shot with a suppressor, you suppress it. Suppressors used to be very popular with sportsman before they were banned. It doesn't scare the game as much, or people afraid of guns. Besides, it is easier on the ears.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#3 Post by gendoikari » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:29 am

Mostly noise pollution and hearing protection. In some places in Europe they're actually required for hunting.
But working in law enforcement the idea of people wanting to hide their shot makes my blood run cold. Guns are loud, really loud. That works great as warning, deterrent, and yes as evidence.
If I wanted to hide a shot i'd use a knife, or more likely a poison. Both of which are more easily slipped past security.

To me something like this screams "murder weapon" more than silencer, but good luck getting knives banned.

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or hell

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#4 Post by Fukshot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:32 am

Because whenever I think about it, like right now, I notice that my ears are always ringing.

We legally require noise reduction on just about everything that makes as much noise as a gun, except a gun. If I could own suppressors without enormous difficulty and expense, I wouldn't speak so irritatingly loudly and have to leave restaurants with too much background noise because they interfere with my ability to have a conversation.

It's a safety device, not a secrecy device. Just like the legally mandated muffler on your car. You aren't planning on sneaking up on people and hitting them with your car, are you?

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#5 Post by Catalyst » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:35 am

gendoikari wrote:Mostly noise pollution and hearing protection. In some places in Europe they're actually required for hunting.
This. Plus...from a home defense standpoint having to fire inside a confined space usually makes the noise worse.

And I take issue with how framed your question and how you stated it.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#6 Post by SwampGrouch » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:44 am

gendoikari wrote: or hell

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What the Hell is that, a piece of obsidian? Or maybe an alien turd from some movie I haven't seen?
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#7 Post by gendoikari » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:48 am

SwampGrouch wrote:
gendoikari wrote: or hell

Image
What the Hell is that, a piece of obsidian? Or maybe an alien turd from some movie I haven't seen?
obsidian shard. Sharper than a surgeons scalpel.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#8 Post by JerseyDog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:49 am

Hadn't thought of the noise pollution angle. Fair enough. I honestly wasn't thinking rifles here. I spent the weekend out at a farm with a friend who happened to have a suppressed Glock 17. You can call it suppressed all you want but firing subsonic ammo from that thing an untrained civillian would never identify it as a gunshot by sound alone. When I drove up I didn't even know he was shooting until I got around to his side of the house. I thought he was just working on a machine.

But again I see the usefulness hearing protection. I can understand that.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#9 Post by begemot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:51 am

gendoikari wrote:
SwampGrouch wrote:
gendoikari wrote: or hell

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What the Hell is that, a piece of obsidian? Or maybe an alien turd from some movie I haven't seen?
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#10 Post by particleman » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:52 am

Basically, I want suppressors for two reasons:

I want to hunt without hearing protection.
I want to legally target shoot and sight in some of my guns on my property without annoying my very nice neighbors.

Discharging a firearm is not illegal where I live, as long as the discharge is "in a safe direction". From my back porch, the property goes down and then up creating a natural berm and I've identified a spot far from the garden where I will dig in some railroad ties to act as a backstop. But if I was to fire an unsuppressed gun, even in that safe direction down into the hillside into a prepared target area, I would scare the living bejesus out of all of my neighbors within several hundred yards. Not my goal. I just want to shoot.

They're legal to buy in my state (WA) and I will go through the legal process to buy them. As I understand it, the only NFA weapons to be used in crimes were used by cops, so these aren't the tools of assassins as seen in the movies.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#11 Post by JerseyDog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:55 am

gendoikari wrote:Mostly noise pollution and hearing protection. In some places in Europe they're actually required for hunting.
But working in law enforcement the idea of people wanting to hide their shot makes my blood run cold. Guns are loud, really loud. That works great as warning, deterrent, and yes as evidence.
If I wanted to hide a shot i'd use a knife, or more likely a poison. Both of which are more easily slipped past security.

To me something like this screams "murder weapon" more than silencer, but good luck getting knives banned.

Image

or hell

Image
I'm not denying that other things can be used to kill silently. And again I'm not trying to get anything banned. You can mail order anything these days so bans really don't work. However I understood why people carry knives, I didn't understand why you'd carry a silencer. So I asked, no need for snark.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#12 Post by begemot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:56 am

JerseyDog wrote:Hadn't thought of the noise pollution angle. Fair enough. I honestly wasn't thinking rifles here. I spent the weekend out at a farm with a friend who happened to have a suppressed Glock 17. You can call it suppressed all you want but firing subsonic ammo from that thing an untrained civillian would never identify it as a gunshot by sound alone. When I drove up I didn't even know he was shooting until I got around to his side of the house. I thought he was just working on a machine.

But again I see the usefulness hearing protection. I can understand that.
Would an untrained civilian correctly identify an unsuppressed gunshot? Is it really that useful for law enforcement?

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#13 Post by JerseyDog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:58 am

Catalyst wrote:And I take issue with how framed your question and how you stated it.
Sorry to offend. I figured I'd try addressing the inevitable confrontation in advance. Didn't work out this way either really. But at least no one has called me Bloomberg yet.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#14 Post by gendoikari » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:58 am

JerseyDog wrote:
gendoikari wrote:Mostly noise pollution and hearing protection. In some places in Europe they're actually required for hunting.
But working in law enforcement the idea of people wanting to hide their shot makes my blood run cold. Guns are loud, really loud. That works great as warning, deterrent, and yes as evidence.
If I wanted to hide a shot i'd use a knife, or more likely a poison. Both of which are more easily slipped past security.

To me something like this screams "murder weapon" more than silencer, but good luck getting knives banned.


or hell


I'm not denying that other things can be used to kill silently. And again I'm not trying to get anything banned. You can mail order anything these days so bans really don't work. However I understood why people carry knives, I didn't understand why you'd carry a silencer. So I asked, no need for snark.
Not snark, just pointing out that it's pointless to get worked up over them. Kind of like people getting worked up over assault weapons. You can get rid of them, but it won't do a thing. So why care?
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#15 Post by JerseyDog » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:02 am

Would an untrained civilian correctly identify an unsuppressed gunshot? Is it really that useful for law enforcement?
In nice neighborhoods people over report if anything. In the hood people know what a gun shot sounds like. I doubt almost anyone even in mobbed up NJ could recognize a this www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBofwiYwGho from around a corner.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#16 Post by JinxRemoving » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:15 am

Much like firearms themselves, it is equally valid to approach their utility both from the practical, "intended use" standpoint, but recognize that there are the "not for deliberate misuse or inhalation" potentials exist as well. I'm sure from a LEO standpoint, one is probably trained to seek out the one over the other. It's a fair question. I would love to own a suppressor, as I'm not in love with ear muffs or anything that interferes with my awareness, but as a crappy, but loud, guitar player, I've made my peace with them :)
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#17 Post by begemot » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:22 am

JerseyDog wrote:
Would an untrained civilian correctly identify an unsuppressed gunshot? Is it really that useful for law enforcement?
In nice neighborhoods people over report if anything. In the hood people know what a gun shot sounds like. I doubt almost anyone even in mobbed up NJ could recognize a this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBofwiYwGho from around a corner.
Yeah, I've seen this one. "Thunk". Fair enough. I rarely think about these things from a LE perspective.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#18 Post by rolandson » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:27 am

To make the damn thing quieter silly!

Hell in France and Germany they're considered polite and neighborly. They are also much cheaper.

Now then, imagine the need to discharge in a confined space without hearing protection...wouldn't anyone want to minimize the potential hearing loss that might accompany something like that?

The local police do...their entry 'teams' all use suppressed weapons, both hand gun and full auto types...I think it's because they want to be able to hear during and after.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#19 Post by ErikO » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:22 am

Home defense. ANY gunshot indoors, even a 'subsonic' is REALLY freaking loud. If either myself or my wife need to defend ourselves or our son, I'd prefer to NOT create a potential for tinitus to set in, especially in the 11 year old.

They require us to muffle our cars, trucks and motorcycles. They require hearing protection if we work in noisy environments. They call suppressors 'tools of poachers or assassins'.

A plus would be that MO and several other states allow them to be used for lawful hunting. Not having to wear hearing protection while in the woods sounds great to me and not having a missed shot necessarily spook a deer is not a bad thing to me.

They don't work like they do in the movies, necessarily. If your 'can' is designed for your caliber and has enough baffles it can reduce the noise of the shot significantly. I'd be happy for one that would keep my ears from bleeding in a home defense situation.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#20 Post by shinzen » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:26 am

ErikO wrote:Home defense. ANY gunshot indoors, even a 'subsonic' is REALLY freaking loud. If either myself or my wife need to defend ourselves or our son, I'd prefer to NOT create a potential for tinitus to set in, especially in the 11 year old.

They require us to muffle our cars, trucks and motorcycles. They require hearing protection if we work in noisy environments. They call suppressors 'tools of poachers or assassins'.

A plus would be that MO and several other states allow them to be used for lawful hunting. Not having to wear hearing protection while in the woods sounds great to me and not having a missed shot necessarily spook a deer is not a bad thing to me.

They don't work like they do in the movies, necessarily. If your 'can' is designed for your caliber and has enough baffles it can reduce the noise of the shot significantly. I'd be happy for one that would keep my ears from bleeding in a home defense situation.
Hits it right on the head here. In a self defense case, I won't be grabbing my ear protection for myself, the wife, and fur kid. Sure would be nice to not have to worry about hearing loss when protecting the family.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#21 Post by don1960lp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:46 am

So, do you home defense folks keep a suppressor on your #1 at all times?

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#22 Post by particleman » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:51 am

My go-to home defense gun is either the CCW revolver that's on me most of the time (no suppressor) or a 12 gauge pump (no suppressor). Also, I can just imagine the prosecutor going to town with me defending my home with an "assassin's weapon".

Yes, it sucks that my HD gun may damage hearing, which is why I have active muffs on top of the safes. Ayoob says that part of bunkering against an intruder would be putting hearing protection on.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#23 Post by don1960lp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:56 am

Re: Hunting

I think if I was out in the dense woods I'd want to know if there were others close by shooting. And I'd want others to hear me shooting too.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#24 Post by ErikO » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:04 am

don1960lp wrote:Re: Hunting

I think if I was out in the dense woods I'd want to know if there were others close by shooting. And I'd want others to hear me shooting too.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#25 Post by ErikO » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:05 am

particleman wrote:My go-to home defense gun is either the CCW revolver that's on me most of the time (no suppressor) or a 12 gauge pump (no suppressor). Also, I can just imagine the prosecutor going to town with me defending my home with an "assassin's weapon".

Yes, it sucks that my HD gun may damage hearing, which is why I have active muffs on top of the safes. Ayoob says that part of bunkering against an intruder would be putting hearing protection on.
Well, just call anyone else BUT the guy the Daily show had on as an expert witness. ;)

Sucks that his company makes good mufflers yet he wasn't cohearant enough to make a good arguement for them.
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