A thought experiment

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KVoimakas
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A thought experiment

#1 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:28 am

Let's say I was planning on my next NFA purchase. Since I'm not rich, select fire is right out the window. So are DDs. Michigan hasn't legalized SBRs or SBSs (and I don't really see use for one at the moment) so that leaves me with another can OR a 12 gauge pistol style AOW.

Pros:
AOW: cost of AOW, cost of stamp ($5)
.45 can: would get used a lot more; would be a useful teaching aide

Cons:
AOW: 12 gauge handgun. what do you use this for?
.45 can: at least TWICE as expensive as the AOW


What do you think? Anything to add to either list?
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Re: A thought experiment

#2 Post by AmirMortal » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:36 am

A pistol with a vfg is also an AOW...
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Re: A thought experiment

#3 Post by STLWaffles » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:43 am

Skip all that jazz and build a "ghost gun" like me :)
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Re: A thought experiment

#4 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:53 am

AmirMortal wrote:A pistol with a vfg is also an AOW...
Yeah, but I see that as being even less useful...

I'll go back and edit the post though.
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Re: A thought experiment

#5 Post by M4Builder » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:33 am

Just get the can. You'll use it.
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Re: A thought experiment

#6 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:39 am

M4Builder wrote:Just get the can. You'll use it.
Yeah, the problem is the cost...

AOW:
Firearm: $500-700
Tax stamp: $5
FFL III fee for the guy in my area: $100
Total: $605 to $805

Can:
Osprey 45: $800
Tax Stamp: $200
FFL III fee for the guy in my area: $100
Barrel for 1911: $264
Total: $1,364

That can is double with the AOW on the cheap side and over 50% more with a more expensive AOW... though yes, I'd probably use a can more.
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Re: A thought experiment

#7 Post by ErikO » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:58 am

Why not just make an AOW out of a shot gun you have on hand? Granted, teh tax goes from $5 to $200, but if you already have the firearm, there's that. ;)
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Re: A thought experiment

#8 Post by ScorpionHunter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:00 pm

KVoimakas wrote:
Can:
Osprey 45: $800
Tax Stamp: $200
FFL III fee for the guy in my area: $100
Barrel for 1911: $264
Total: $1,364
$1,364 only if you can resist temptation. Suppressors are like potato chips, you can't have just one. Once you see how much fun they are, and how enjoyable they make shooting, you'll be dipping into retirement savings to buy more.

You know what you shoot most, and a 45 is a very versatile can. But a .22 can is much cheaper to buy and to shoot. Even expensive .22 is 1/3 the price of cheap .45, and standard velocity .22 can be cat sneeze quiet. .45 out of an Osprey is definitely hearing-safe, but you'll know a gun was fired.

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Re: A thought experiment

#9 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:09 pm

ScorpionHunter wrote:
KVoimakas wrote:
Can:
Osprey 45: $800
Tax Stamp: $200
FFL III fee for the guy in my area: $100
Barrel for 1911: $264
Total: $1,364
$1,364 only if you can resist temptation. Suppressors are like potato chips, you can't have just one. Once you see how much fun they are, and how enjoyable they make shooting, you'll be dipping into retirement savings to buy more.

You know what you shoot most, and a 45 is a very versatile can. But a .22 can is much cheaper to buy and to shoot. Even expensive .22 is 1/3 the price of cheap .45, and standard velocity .22 can be cat sneeze quiet. .45 out of an Osprey is definitely hearing-safe, but you'll know a gun was fired.

I have 127 days until my tax stamp comes through on my Silencerco SS Sparrow. That's the BEST timeframe from everything I've heard so far.

Here it is, sitting at the shop.
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Re: A thought experiment

#10 Post by rolandson » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:11 pm

I am not sure I follow and am being lazy for the moment because I have been making PDF's all morning ;)

Forgive my ignorance, by 12 Ga Pistol do you mean a pistol grip on an 18" barreled 12 Ga shotgun? Have you ever shot one of those, more than once? It hurts. It hurts a lot, for a long time...I had the misfortune to put 20 - 12 Ga (slugs and 00buck) down range once. Big mistake, huge...I couldn't turn a doorknob for several days afterward.

Get the can.
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Re: A thought experiment

#11 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:15 pm

rolandson wrote:I am not sure I follow and am being lazy for the moment because I have been making PDF's all morning ;)

Forgive my ignorance, by 12 Ga Pistol do you mean a pistol grip on an 18" barreled 12 Ga shotgun? Have you ever shot one of those, more than once? It hurts. It hurts a lot, for a long time...I had the misfortune to put 20 - 12 Ga (slugs and 00buck) down range once. Big mistake, huge...I couldn't turn a doorknob for several days afterward.

Get the can.
No, I mean a pistol grip on a 6" barreled pump shotgun (6" to 14" being the normal ones I've seen).

I've shot a pistol gripped shotgun before. Like a pistol (one handed). It was heavy...and the recoil wasn't THAT bad. Of course, I didn't (and wouldn't) shoot 000 buck or slugs out of it. #4 buck works though.

Here are a couple examples:

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Re: A thought experiment

#12 Post by ScorpionHunter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm

KVoimakas wrote:[


I have 127 days until my tax stamp comes through on my Silencerco SS Sparrow. That's the BEST timeframe from everything I've heard so far.
The sparrow is a great can. Did you do efile?

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Re: A thought experiment

#13 Post by KVoimakas » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:13 pm

ScorpionHunter wrote:
KVoimakas wrote:[


I have 127 days until my tax stamp comes through on my Silencerco SS Sparrow. That's the BEST timeframe from everything I've heard so far.
The sparrow is a great can. Did you do efile?
Nope. Paper.
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Re: A thought experiment

#14 Post by KVoimakas » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:25 pm

I think I've decided on the Osprey .45ACP. Then, while I'm waiting for the tax stamp, get the barrel ordered and fit on the MC Operator.

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And the put some Crimson Trace laser grips on it and it's almost done...
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Re: A thought experiment

#15 Post by AmirMortal » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:06 pm

An AR or AK pistol with a vfg is what I meant. Then you can add a can to that...
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Re: A thought experiment

#16 Post by KVoimakas » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:40 pm

AmirMortal wrote:An AR or AK pistol with a vfg is what I meant. Then you can add a can to that...
Nah, I've had my fill of ARs and AKs for the moment. The .45 Osprey is my next choice. Then get that Storm Lake barrel for the 1911 above AND get a mechtech upper (threaded; http://www.mechtechsys.com/1911.php) for the 1911.

And if I can find a Marlin Camp 45....
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Re: A thought experiment

#17 Post by ErikO » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:33 am

FWIW, eFile is only available to corporations and trusts at the moment.
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Re: A thought experiment

#18 Post by AmirMortal » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:46 am

KVoimakas wrote:
AmirMortal wrote:An AR or AK pistol with a vfg is what I meant. Then you can add a can to that...
Nah, I've had my fill of ARs and AKs for the moment. The .45 Osprey is my next choice. Then get that Storm Lake barrel for the 1911 above AND get a mechtech upper (threaded; http://www.mechtechsys.com/1911.php) for the 1911.

And if I can find a Marlin Camp 45....
That Camp 45 is pretty cool. I understand that there is a small modification that allows the Hi - Point 45 carbine to use stock 1911 magazines. I always found their proprietary magazines to be delicate and consistently the weak point of the system, which this trick solves.
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Re: A thought experiment

#19 Post by ErikO » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:48 am

AmirMortal wrote:
KVoimakas wrote:
AmirMortal wrote:An AR or AK pistol with a vfg is what I meant. Then you can add a can to that...
Nah, I've had my fill of ARs and AKs for the moment. The .45 Osprey is my next choice. Then get that Storm Lake barrel for the 1911 above AND get a mechtech upper (threaded; http://www.mechtechsys.com/1911.php) for the 1911.

And if I can find a Marlin Camp 45....
That Camp 45 is pretty cool. I understand that there is a small modification that allows the Hi - Point 45 carbine to use stock 1911 magazines. I always found their proprietary magazines to be delicate and consistently the weak point of the system, which this trick solves.
Interestingly enough, the 1911 mag mod for the 4595 is easier to do on the crappy mec-gar mags.
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Re: A thought experiment

#20 Post by DoctorB » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:39 am

The Osprey is the state of the art for .45; that unit will probably work just fine on lesser calibers too. The additional gap between .45 and 9mm and similar will make a small difference; I think with the two you'll be in great shape.
FWIW that's a great choice, and why we hate you. :laugh:
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Re: A thought experiment

#21 Post by KVoimakas » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:07 pm

DoctorB wrote:The Osprey is the state of the art for .45; that unit will probably work just fine on lesser calibers too. The additional gap between .45 and 9mm and similar will make a small difference; I think with the two you'll be in great shape.
FWIW that's a great choice, and why we hate you. :laugh:
I really only shoot .45ACP so this'll work. .45ACP is my smallest centerfire handgun cartridge....

So, a couple 1911s, a Tommy gun, and a 625 (that can't be effectively silenced).
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Re: A thought experiment

#22 Post by ScorpionHunter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:36 pm

KVoimakas wrote:I think I've decided on the Osprey .45ACP. Then, while I'm waiting for the tax stamp, get the barrel ordered and fit on the MC Operator.
You know, in honor of the new can, and factoring the cost of getting the barrel and having it fitted, you might want to treat yourself to a factory threaded 1911. I've been looking at the Remington R1 enhanced with threaded barrel and the new Para Black Ops Combat myself. The new can/new gun smell combination is intoxicating. And remember, you're worth it.

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Re: A thought experiment

#23 Post by KVoimakas » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:52 pm

ScorpionHunter wrote:
KVoimakas wrote:I think I've decided on the Osprey .45ACP. Then, while I'm waiting for the tax stamp, get the barrel ordered and fit on the MC Operator.
You know, in honor of the new can, and factoring the cost of getting the barrel and having it fitted, you might want to treat yourself to a factory threaded 1911. I've been looking at the Remington R1 enhanced with threaded barrel and the new Para Black Ops Combat myself. The new can/new gun smell combination is intoxicating. And remember, you're worth it.
I guess I could pick up an STI...if I had the money.

http://www.stiguns.com/the-sti-tactical-5-0/

I'm an STI or SA man. Not that I wouldn't buy something else, it's just my own personal primary preference.
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Re: A thought experiment

#24 Post by DoctorB » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:44 pm

Well as long as we're spending your money, let's stick that Osprey onto a Strayer Voigt Infinity, shall we? I'd love to see that picture.
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Re: A thought experiment

#25 Post by KVoimakas » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:49 pm

DoctorB wrote:Well as long as we're spending your money, let's stick that Osprey onto a Strayer Voigt Infinity, shall we? I'd love to see that picture.
Image
Heh. I'll stick with getting a threaded barrel for my SA Operator MC. It's already the bedside gun. Night sights, 10 round magazine, APL from Inforce for light. Now it just needs a can, a magwell, and a set of Crimson Trace.
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