Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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"Why can't rimfire be reliable?"

Short answer: because it's rim fire. There's no nice, soft percussion cap to hit, so the firing pin has to hit the brass rim pretty hard. That's why .22 revolvers have such stiff DA trigger pull. To hit the rim hard, it needs a stiff spring. Even so, sometimes the rim is not hit hard enough. Or the primer is not uniformly distributed in the case head. Or the filth from previous shots prevented the round from going into battery. Or it went off all right, but it was a squib round because of insufficient powered. Yeah, pricier rounds are more consistent, but they can produce their own problems. El-cheapo HV rounds are probably more reliable in a lot of semi-autos than the $20/box standard velocity stuff. So, no percussion cap plus the need to control costs means they are not completely reliable. As a result, one should not rely on rimfire for self-defense. Having said all that, decent but nowhere near top shelf, stuff like Mini-mags, Federal Gameshock, and Win. Super-X are still very reliable, just not perfectly so.
Yet she persisted.

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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Deep13 wrote:"Why can't rimfire be reliable?"

Short answer: because it's rim fire. There's no nice, soft percussion cap to hit, so the firing pin has to hit the brass rim pretty hard. That's why .22 revolvers have such stiff DA trigger pull. To hit the rim hard, it needs a stiff spring. Even so, sometimes the rim is not hit hard enough. Or the primer is not uniformly distributed in the case head. Or the filth from previous shots prevented the round from going into battery. Or it went off all right, but it was a squib round because of insufficient powered. Yeah, pricier rounds are more consistent, but they can produce their own problems. El-cheapo HV rounds are probably more reliable in a lot of semi-autos than the $20/box standard velocity stuff. So, no percussion cap plus the need to control costs means they are not completely reliable. As a result, one should not rely on rimfire for self-defense. Having said all that, decent but nowhere near top shelf, stuff like Mini-mags, Federal Gameshock, and Win. Super-X are still very reliable, just not perfectly so.
Best answer yet.


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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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I purchased a S&W M&P compact 22 about a year ago. I only shoot CCI Mini Mag RN and HP in it. I have fires at least 1500 rounds through it without a single failure to fire, feed, or eject. I ha=3 not has a single misfire or hangfire. It is an excellent gun using excellent ammo. It is a reliable 22 shooting reliable ammo.

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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I have had good luck with what I've shot, in terms of reliability. The only exception has been Remington hp golden boolits- they would regularly jam in my MK III when the nose would wedge against the feed ramp, hard enough to leave a groove. The round nose golden boolits have been fine, and have been perfectly reliable. I get a dud about 1,000 rounds, or so.

I have been shooting the Eley stuff they developed with the CMP and it has not only been perfectly reliable (so far) but also accurate and relatively inexpensive. ~ $0.07/round
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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aasoverteakettle wrote: I have this likely incorrect belief that subsonic or standard velocity is less-than-awesome (technical term). Maximum everything all the time! Plus I'm not sure my guns would perform with subsonic.
Have you tried Aguila Interceptor .22LR? It goes to eleven, but I suspect the price premium over MiniMags or Aguila SE HV is greater than the gain in velocity. I don't think I've crono-ed any, though.

Back on topic (which is really playing against type), I finally made it to the range Saturday for some plinking and to shoot the Bullseye match. Fired maybe 100 rounds of AutoMatch from MkII and K22, no failures. Fired one box of Eley Target from the K22 and had two that did not ignite on the first strike, both during the rapid fire strings! :x At least the first one happened on the first shot of the string, so that was easy to deal with. Both duds ignited on a second strike.

So, yay Federal?
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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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I honestly just expect the occasional failure in the bulk stuff. I don't have a lot of good things to say about Thunderbolts, they've been worse than federal bulk for me. The newer Remington golden bullets behave much better.

But there's also the deal that .22 firearms can be VERY peculiar about what kind of ammo they work well with. I have a Jimenez pistol that only wants to eat CCI Minimags. In fairness the manual actually SAYS only to use CCI Minimags with it.

I have a Marlin rifle that will cycle any .22lr you feed it, as long as its kept resonably clean. Some .22lr seems to be a lot dirtier than others. But it's all dirty.

Except..

I don't get a lot of build up from Aguila Super Extra. I don't use it a lot as its not as easy to find. but it works at least as well as CCI Minimags. I think Aguila uses a different primer compound as this stuff just smells odd to me. Not bad, but not like other 22 ammo.


edited to add: did rent an SR22 that had multiple FTF on Aguila Super Extra but I think the pistol had a weak spring. It would fire on a second strike in all cases.

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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I think it's mostly manufacturing tolerances.

Also the way rimfire gets fired probably causes combustion to start on one side first, around where the firing pin hits first.

Also bullet shape matters, coatings, softness of lead.

And some .22s like higher velocity and others like subsonics.

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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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Different .22 LR firearms are set up for different types of ammo. An example: I have several Ruger 10/22 rifles. When each came to me, they were new or nearly new. The Ruger 10/22 is set up to need High Speed ammunition, and has a loose chamber and throat, which are good for reliability with the most types of ammo, but bad for accuracy. High Speed imparts a lot more energy to the blow-back bolt than Standard Velocity ammo does. The problem with virtually all High Speed ammo is that it is not very accurate. There are things you can do to a semi-auto to make the mechanism soak up more or less bolt energy, such as sharpening the bottom rear of the bolt to absorb more energy, or rounding it to absorb less energy. Polishing the spring guide rod on the 10/22 rifles seemed to help a bit. Smoothing the inside of the receiver seemed to help. Lubrication in a 10/22 tends to pick up lots of grit and is therefore to be avoided, but one of my 10/22 won't function reliably without it.

Federal Automatch, shown above, is High Speed (supersonic), and has shot well for me in most .22 rifles and handguns, is less dirty than most, but is not match accurate. CCI Standard velocity is subsonic, is more accurate than you are until you reach Expert rating, and is less dirty than most. The old Wolf Match Target made in Germany by SK, and still sold by SK as Standard Plus, is only a little dirty and really accurate

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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All four of my Kidd 10/22s and my Frankenruger shoot CCI SV with essentially no failures. I ascribe this to be due in part to the quality on machining of the Kidd receivers, charging system and bolts. So smooth.

I shoot sub sonic .22 LR almost exclusively. I can go out to 100 yards without worrying about the transonic transition at about 75 yards for Minimags.
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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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As far as firing, I thing most .22 ammo is reliable. I do shoot a lot of .22 and .22 WMR. My two favorites are a NAA Mini Master 4" barrel, and a S&W 422. The S&W has more issues with feeding hollow points than anything else, but it is accurate with almost anything. It doesn't like the old Russian steel casings--- they tend to swell and not extract. The NAA will take nearly anything. Some of the reliability has to be tolerances in manufacturing. .22lr has a much wider spread than .22wmr. Magnum bullets are .224, .22lr are .223. Magnums are kept within 1/2 of a thousandth. LRs can be anywhere from .222 to .225. Most barrels are .223, but there are some .224 barrels that can cause some .22lr keyholing. That's why you have to find the one your gun likes.
Jim

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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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Some of my 22LR handguns prefer particular ammo and some even come with a range of preferred and discourage using some LR ammo. Other than that, to me it’s fine. It’s not exactly self defense ammo, so not looking for perfection every trigger pull.
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Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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I agree 22 ammo has gotten better. I mainly use CCI, Federal and Remington and rarely have a problem. Even center fire ammo has occasional problems. Many people who have physical disabilities or due to age can't handle larger cartridges and 10 rounds of 22lr if correctly targeted will likely stop an aggressor.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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highdesert wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:20 pm I agree 22 ammo has gotten better. I mainly use CCI, Federal and Remington and rarely have a problem. Even center fire ammo has occasional problems. Many people who have physical disabilities or due to age can't handle larger cartridges and 10 rounds of 22lr if correctly targeted will likely stop an aggressor.
Well yes, I did say not exactly self defense ammo. I seriously doubt anyone that saw any gun pointed at them would start pondering the effectiveness of the caliber if they were even that observant. One uses what is at hand. All of my 22LR handguns are rather massive, hard to conceal. LoL.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

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NuJudge wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:06 pm The old Wolf Match Target made in Germany by SK, and still sold by SK as Standard Plus, is only a little dirty and really accurate
I believe the new Wolf Match Target is made by Eley. I just tested it, and it was garbage. I ran it through five different firearms, all of which do well with most standard velocity, and I averaged between 15 and 20% failure to fire. Good firing pin dents on the casings.

BTW, Eley club and target are reliable in all of those firearms.

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