The .22LR and all those names

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Since I upgraded to having both a .22LR bolt rifle and a .22LR semi-automatic, ammo trips have made me ponder. I drop by my nearest sporting goods store fairly regularly to pic up .22LR and other ammo on sale. Yes I'm doing some stocking up. To my pondering then. As a round all .22LR are as the name implies .22 long rifle rounds. Some however come packaged in different varieties like pistol match, rifle match, sub-sonic, standard velocity, high velocity and so on. On occassion I've gone to the store and asked for either the rifle match or pistol match of a particular brand and gotten a disappointing answer that they didn't have one or the other. No worries usually a bulk box, another standard velocity or high velocity box will leave with me. But just how much of my disappointment and thoughts are just linked to marketing? After all the rounds are all long rifle with velocity being the major difference. I haven't tried all the different types with both my rifle and pistol but I suspect both will like some regardless of it being labeled pistol match, rifle match or whatever velocity. So my question to y'all is how much do you pay attention to what you choose to use with your rifles and pistols.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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A long time ago I came across a MKI pistol that had most of a box of old ammunition with. Part of the labeling on the box included "hi-speed" in aggressive italics to better communicate the mindbending velocities of which this ammunition would be capable. Seems like marketing potato chips as "crunchy" or bottled water as "very wet", or commenting that a Kardashian has Crisco syndrome.

Of course the bullet will be high-speed – it's a bullet.

I don't begrudge any of the manufacturers their marketing efforts, though I sometimes find their descriptions perverse. Aguila markets a standard velocity round that is supersonic out of a rifle barrel, which strikes some of us as counterintuitive.
Last edited by zukiphile on Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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In truth, there is now very little difference between high and standard velocity .22 LR. When I first got a silencer and was waiting for ATF approval, I stocked up on subsonic .22 LR ammo. When I tried the silencer on a threaded Ruger 22/45, I was very impressed that the hi velocity ammo was as quiet as the subsonic, but then the light bulb went on in my head. Neither one hit the sound barrier. I got out my chronograph and found both of them were below 1100 FPS.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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I try a few to see what works best. For accuracy in my rifles, it is either Eley Target (their cheapest, coz I haven't tried anything more expensive) in the Winchester single-shots, or Norma Match for the semi-auto 10/22. It doesn't like Federal Target (nothing I own does).

For the pistols, the SR22 Ruger loves CCI Mini-mags, and the Beretta 87 loves Federal Automatch bulk. Go figger. :)

I would buy a box of everything you can find, then shoot them off against each other. If nothing else, it's a good way to spend more time at the range.

I do have some SK Magazine that I haven't tried, and some CCI AR-Tactical (that was going cheap at MallWart) that I also haven't tried.

Single-Six likes CCI standard velocity, and in 22WMR mode dislikes everything on sale in equal measure. But it's fun so I don't care.

So, you buy one gun, but get to play with all kinds of different fun ammo. :D
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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i generally buy (a.) what's on sale, or (b.) what little they have in stock. when it was near-impossible to find any at all, i bought a box of this and a box of that, thinking some might shoot or feed better than others. it was going to be all scientific and everything, with record-keeping and numbers! :albert: i haven't shot any of them yet. :weep:
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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CDFingers wrote:I have a Ruger MKII and a bolt action .22. I've found that some off brands won't cycle the MKII, but the bolt gun shoots everything. So, if the MKII doesn't like it, I feed it to the rifle.

CDFingers
That has become my justification to buy anything on sale.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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CDFingers wrote:I have a Ruger MKII and a bolt action .22. I've found that some off brands won't cycle the MKII, but the bolt gun shoots everything. So, if the MKII doesn't like it, I feed it to the rifle.

CDFingers
I feed it to my Single Six - except Winchester M22 that has case sizes occasionally (1 in 5) that WILL NOT fit into the cylinder - the QC is that bad... Wouldn't mess up my rifles with cruddy ammo :)
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Consistency is important for accuracy, so I stick with the same brand and type for my 10/22 rifles. They were zeroed at Appleseed with Aguila high velocity, so that's the only ammo I feed them. If it was good enough to get my Rifleman patch, it's good enough for most purposes outside serious competitions. I got four bricks of the stuff, so I'm not running out anytime soon.

Now that CCI is getting on store shelves again, Aguila is feeling the pressure. They reduced their price to about 8¢ each, which is even better for me.

I have a .50 cal ammo can full of CCI standard, so in the unlikely event that I run out of the regular diet, I got enough premium ammo to tide me over.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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If accuracy is the name of the game.. then consistency is the goal...

But you can up that game a little bit, well, maybe a lot. depends

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco2.htm

and that is just the start http://www.pacotools.com/tool_discriptions

the rim check is advertised as delivering 22% smaller groups by sorting by rim thickness

No connection to the company aside from being a long time happy customer that has a very very happy 1944 Remington 513T with Redfield sights ( and an exceptionally cool US Army Ordnance bomb acceptance making it 1 of the 10,000 purchased in WW2 to train snipers) that has seen real improvement by tuning up bullet diameter with an Acu'rzr and sorting by rim thickness with a rim checker ...

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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With semiautos, I'll give up some accuracy for reliability. In general, the bullet has to be copper and not overly long.

I've tried a few different Eley and Federal Gold Match. In the end, they aren't worth the price to me. Of the more pricey options, it's hard to beat minimags for value. Prior to 2008, I used to like Winchester Super X, which was their premium option at the time. They disappeared for years (as all 22 ammo did) and I have not tried the new version of them as I was fortunate in 2007 to buy about 10k rounds of mini-mags at a good price. I still have half to go :thumbup: wish they were hollowpoints though as you lose squirrels from time to time with the solids :thumbdown:

I think much of the bulk ammo is junk in one shape or form. Thunderbolts and Wildcats don't even sound the same when they go off. When you find quality rounds, then the bullets are too long to feed properly like the Winchester 333/555.

Blazers are good for an all lead round. I have a box of Winchester m22 I have not fired; I suspect they are going to be good because they copper plated and not a truncated cone shape. Federal can put out some decent stuff but I've never been overly impressed with accuracy.

The best bulk ammo I've ever seen was Winchester Dynapoints. When everything else was 10 bucks a brick, the Dynapoints were 13 bucks. Totally worth the extra money and no one wanted to pay for them. I think I still have 2000 rounds.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Some will have 40 rounds per box instead of 50, or bricks of 325 for the math impaired.
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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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My solution to navigating the excess variety of 22LR on the market was to do a lot of research. That study led me to what I found to be considered the most reliable brand, CCI. I looked at ballistic stats for for most of the CCI higher velocity rounds. I took lots of notes and bookmarked many web pages with relate to data. The result was that I believe the best 22LR for a handgun is the CCI Mini Mag in both hollow point and round noses. They also were rated excellent for rifle.

The website brassfetcher.com has a great ballistic comparison video of 22 LR HP. It tested multiple brands an recommended only two for self defense: .CI Mini Mag and Winchester super x 40 grain. They were the only two rounds that consistently expanded in gel when fired from a hand gun. The Winchester had slightly better performance. I researched all I could on each round. The Winchester had inconsistent performance problems, particularly failure to eject or feed and occasionally failure to fire. I could not find one report of any malfunctions of the CCI. So the Mini Mag is my target and carry ammo. Round nose at the range and HP on the street.

I have shot thousands of Mini Mag RN through my M&P22 Compact with no failures to feed, eject, or fire. I trust it.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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The only way to know what works for a particular 22 is trying tons of different brands.

I wish someone would sell a trial pack...10 rounds of 10 different brands.

I shoot mostly Federal Bulk Match, which my 10/22 likes almost as much as CCI Standard Velocity.

I also have several thousand rounds of misc brands that need to be cleaned out of my ammo stash. Time for a 22 wheelgun....
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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Sarge wrote:If accuracy is the name of the game.. then consistency is the goal...

But you can up that game a little bit, well, maybe a lot. depends

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco2.htm

and that is just the start http://www.pacotools.com/tool_discriptions

the rim check is advertised as delivering 22% smaller groups by sorting by rim thickness

No connection to the company aside from being a long time happy customer that has a very very happy 1944 Remington 513T with Redfield sights ( and an exceptionally cool US Army Ordnance bomb acceptance making it 1 of the 10,000 purchased in WW2 to train snipers) that has seen real improvement by tuning up bullet diameter with an Acu'rzr and sorting by rim thickness with a rim checker ...
Interesting links. Thanks.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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senorgrand wrote:The only way to know what works for a particular 22 is trying tons of different brands.

I wish someone would sell a trial pack...10 rounds of 10 different brands.

I shoot mostly Federal Bulk Match, which my 10/22 likes almost as much as CCI Standard Velocity.

I also have several thousand rounds of misc brands that need to be cleaned out of my ammo stash. Time for a 22 wheelgun....
My .22s seem to like most ammo. So I've settled on a couple I've mentioned before.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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curtism1234 wrote:<snip!>

I have a box of Winchester m22 I have not fired; I suspect they are going to be good because they copper plated and not a truncated cone shape.

<more snip>.
I gave away my last box unopened since I could not force it by hand into the Single-Six cylinder..... Fortunately, I didn't try it in anything semi-auto or I'd have had to drive it out with a rod down the barrel.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Late to this party. My current thinking is that there is far more variation in this shooter than in what will be produced by different 22lr. That's not scientific, just a hunch. :) Therefore, I tend to get what's on sale, with free shipping. Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever bought 22lr in a real store. :hmmm: It all seems to work. In fact, I still have bricks of old Federal Value Pack in hollow point that's years old. Nice to have stock.

There is one exception. Remington golden boolits in the hollow point, plated, Value Pack! variant jam with some regularity in my MKIII. The hollow point makes the nose a tad blunt and the lead is really soft, and they get caught by the bottom of the feed ramp, leaving a groove at the tip of the boolit. This happens with a frequency of once every 30-40 rounds or so. (I'll grant that it may have something to do with cleaning. :whistle: )
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Bacchus wrote:Late to this party. My current thinking is that there is far more variation in this shooter than in what will be produced by different 22lr. That's not scientific, just a hunch. :) Therefore, I tend to get what's on sale, with free shipping. Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever bought 22lr in a real store. :hmmm: It all seems to work. In fact, I still have bricks of old Federal Value Pack in hollow point that's years old. Nice to have stock.

There is one exception. Remington golden boolits in the hollow point, plated, Value Pack! variant jam with some regularity in my MKIII. The hollow point makes the nose a tad blunt and the lead is really soft, and they get caught by the bottom of the feed ramp, leaving a groove at the tip of the boolit. This happens with a frequency of once every 30-40 rounds or so. (I'll grant that it may have something to do with cleaning. :whistle: )
I love Remington UMC, but the Golden boolits are...¡que terrible! There are literally the only 22LRs that jam my M&P22, which chews through anything else with no problem.

I'm pretty sure out a 525 Value Pack, you're going to get at least 10-15% FTF or FTE.
LGC Texas - Vice President

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Well, this is one of those neverending topics. Unfortunately, you hafta learn what's best for your guns. MOST revolvers and bolt guns will shoot anything, but some revolvers have tight chambers by design or due to worn or reworked tooling. If your revolver chambers show tooling marks, they can be polished CAREFULLY with some 400 grit paper wrapped around a piece of split dowel.

If you are lucky enough to have a revolver that loads with difficulty, but ejects with ease, you have a winner. The chamber is swaging the bullet, which improves grouping. Difficult loading and extraction just means tight chambers overall, again - By design or not, depending on finish quality.

Autos can be very accepting or very finicky. The M41 is notorious for being picky, but if the extractor is replaced with a Volquartsen extractor with a new spring, they can feed a lot more. They also like to be run wet. Hoppe's works to wet their whistle when they get balky.

Some cheap autos need to have their actions honed to get them to feed reliably. You can spot them, they are the ones that don't feed and have tooling marks on sliding bearing surfaces.

And then of course there's the ammo. Some is very reliable, like Lapua, Eley (though not Eley Sport, which is variable) and CCI. Federal can be variable.
I bought a whole case of AutoMatch that was dirty enough to totally gum up any auto in 50 rounds. Recently, Aguila, who make the Eley Club, have been selling surprisingly good ammo with their own name on the box. They also make the recent good Fiocchi bulk. But what is good can change from year to year.

CCI Standard Velocity and MiniMag solids (40gr) have been good more often than not during the last 8 years. Wolf 22lr Ammo is extremely accurate, but will need to be wiped down for long plinking sessions with an auto, because it's lubed for competition guns. Same goes for SK, because it's the same ammo.

CCI Blazer has been consistently good where it is available.

If you find a bulk ammo that performs well in all your guns, try and get a case with the same lot number.

If you've read this thread and this post this far, you are very patient.

Re: The .22LR and all those names

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atxgunguy wrote:
Bacchus wrote:Late to this party. My current thinking is that there is far more variation in this shooter than in what will be produced by different 22lr. That's not scientific, just a hunch. :) Therefore, I tend to get what's on sale, with free shipping. Thinking about it, I don't think I've ever bought 22lr in a real store. :hmmm: It all seems to work. In fact, I still have bricks of old Federal Value Pack in hollow point that's years old. Nice to have stock.

There is one exception. Remington golden boolits in the hollow point, plated, Value Pack! variant jam with some regularity in my MKIII. The hollow point makes the nose a tad blunt and the lead is really soft, and they get caught by the bottom of the feed ramp, leaving a groove at the tip of the boolit. This happens with a frequency of once every 30-40 rounds or so. (I'll grant that it may have something to do with cleaning. :whistle: )
I love Remington UMC, but the Golden boolits are...¡que terrible! There are literally the only 22LRs that jam my M&P22, which chews through anything else with no problem.

I'm pretty sure out a 525 Value Pack, you're going to get at least 10-15% FTF or FTE.
Right! I've got those 525 Federal Value Packs. :) I've had good luck with mine, though- nowhere near that FTF/FTE rate.

The non-hollow point Golden boolits have worked well- the ones in the 100 count plastic boxes - and I've shot the last couple of Bullseye matches with them. No complaints. But yeah, I wouldn't get the hollow point version again. I love the Remington UMC stuff, too, and have quite a bit in other calibers. Never a hiccup.
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: The .22LR and all those names

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Bacchus wrote:
atxgunguy wrote: Right! I've got those 525 Federal Value Packs. :) I've had good luck with mine, though- nowhere near that FTF/FTE rate.

The non-hollow point Golden boolits have worked well- the ones in the 100 count plastic boxes - and I've shot the last couple of Bullseye matches with them. No complaints. But yeah, I wouldn't get the hollow point version again. I love the Remington UMC stuff, too, and have quite a bit in other calibers. Never a hiccup.
Federal bulk has always worked for me. Lately, I've been using the Winchester 100-round Super-X since they have been on the cheap at BassPro. Nearly 100% go bang and eject without event. Good stuff.
LGC Texas - Vice President

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