Why can't rimfire be reliable?

1
I'm throwing this question out there because I shoot a lot of rimfire. I've seen all the videos from our boy Yankee Marshall, not-our boys IV8888 (and others), 22LR "How it's made" and videos regarding inherent construction issues from 22 Plinkster, and my own research. We have the information. We know the problems that cause unreliability. So I don't understand why, in this age of production technology, that we can't solve the problem of 22LR reliability. Why are no ammo manufacturers developing a round that solves the inherent problems? Any thoughts?

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

4
Marlene wrote:Am I right I’m presuming that the expensive target stuff has less reliability issues?

I’m guessing that the market’s insistence on .22LR costing less than a dime per round is the biggest factor.
I'm mentally translating "reliable" into "consistently accurate" (better groups, fewer fliers).

CCI Green Tag ($19.99) is more "reliable" than CCI Target ($9.99)
Norma Match or Eley costs more than either but is a little more accurate/consistent than Green Tag, at least in my gun.

You are paying more for more care and attention to quality and consistency in the manufacturing process. Joe Sixpack plinking with his Ruger 10/22 doesn't care about this: as long as it feeds reliably and goes down range to that milk jug on the fence post he's happy. Make it cheap and make plenty of it for him. It's a large market with many needs to be catered to. Like most things in life, if you want good stuff you gotta pay a premium. Sorta like an LGC Premium Membership and it's attendant perks.
I should really upgrade. ;)
Image
Image

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

5
It sounds like you are addressing manufacturing issues in the rounds themselves, not the function of the rounds in a given firearm.

I may have had a 22LR misfire at some point in the past, but I can't really confirm it since they are so rare for me. When I work as a volunteer range safety officer at my club, I'll pick up unfired rounds from the deck to tidy up. Again, I am not certain, but the great majority of those rounds were ejected unfired to clear the action of a firearm and not picked back up.

Hopefully some of the hardcore rimfire shooters on the forum can pick this question up with some good technical knowledge. Rimfire ammo manufacturers have been working 24/7 shifts to keep up with demand, so perhaps some QC has been less rigorous.

best of luck.

:beer2: :beer2:
Bleeding Heart Liberal with Second Amendment Benefits.
Image
Image

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

6
I haven't had as much ammo reliability issues as I have had gun issues. But the cheapest I run is usually Federal Bulk Match.

They other thing to keep in mind...22 is cheap. If you shoot x10 more of it, expect x10 duds.

I would expect 1 dud per 1,000 as acceptable, which has been my experience.
Image


"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

7
senorgrand wrote:I haven't had as much ammo reliability issues as I have had gun issues. But the cheapest I run is usually Federal Bulk Match.

They other thing to keep in mind...22 is cheap. If you shoot x10 more of it, expect x10 duds.

I would expect 1 dud per 1,000 as acceptable, which has been my experience.
Mine too. After all it's not being used in an assassination pistol, at least I'm not using it for that purpose. Center fire ammo can have problems too.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

8
Old .22, including boxes I find stashed from 30 or 40 years ago, fires reliably. Stuff made during the panic sucks.

Fair or not, truly scientific or not, my conclusion is, "Piss poor quality control."
"There never was a union of church and state which did not bring serious evils to religion."
The Right Reverend John England, first Roman Catholic Bishop of Charleston SC, 1825.

Why can't rimfire be reliable?

9
I run CCI SV, Wolf Match Target and Match Extra. My guns are always clean, particularly the chambers. I rarely fire Minimags. Sometimes I will run various Eley. I don’t use the hyper expensive stuff like Tenex. I would if I were good enough.

I would estimate that I get a failure only every 250 rounds or so with my Kidd 10/22s and 22/45. I do get more, maybe one in 50, with my Woodsman.

I gave up on the cheap stuff years ago. I got tired of the Golden Bullets popping out of their cases.

I am pretty frugal - no mag dumps from the 25 rounders, etc.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Last edited by Bucolic on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

10
I played hookey and went to the range today. Guy was shooting Tula 22 bulk. WAY overpressured. The cases were so misformed, they wouldn't sit on a flat surface. One blew his 10/22 magazine apart! His hand was all dinged-up.

I was shooting Federal Match Bulk. Had one FTF out of 200 rounds. I also get to keep all my fingers and toes!
Image


"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

12
So I actually went to the range today with a new rimfire. Federal auto match is my go-to for regular shooting. I also brought only two "good" guns, nothing old or finicky. I had 2 FTF in about 500 rounds. Maybe I'm listening to too many youtubers and my penchant for finicky guns. Is my question really relevant, or is it just a mirage?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

14
I don't shoot much .22LR but I have 3 guns in .22WRM that eat up 500 rounds a month. Failures are almost non-existent with the Armscor USA 40 gr I use. Maybe the disproportionately higher cost of the magnums makes QC more meticulous. My .308's OTOH have more duds regardless of the quality of the ammo.
"Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees" - Emiliano Zapata

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

17
the generic bulk ammo does well enough out to 50 yds, then around 75 it seems to wander off in all directions.
i have some expensive (for me) .22 i bought during the Great Drought, when it was all i could find, with the intention of seeing if it was more accurate. then i couldn't get to the range often enough to do a good comparison, but i did notice it seemed to cycle better.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

20
If you google “.22 LR transonic,” you will get a whole lot of discussion, some of which might even be accurate. As a (retired) physicist, I never studied the relevant instabilities but I do not doubt that the transition is not a smooth one. Speaking empirically, my groups at 100yards are better with subsonic rounds than with, for example, Minimags, but there could be other factors at play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

21
Bucolic wrote:If you google “.22 LR transonic,” you will get a whole lot of discussion, some of which might even be accurate. As a (retired) physicist, I never studied the relevant instabilities but I do not doubt that the transition is not a smooth one. Speaking empirically, my groups at 100yards are better with subsonic rounds than with, for example, Minimags, but there could be other factors at play.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I have this likely incorrect belief that subsonic or standard velocity is less-than-awesome (technical term). Maximum everything all the time! Plus I'm not sure my guns would perform with subsonic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

24
ncbluedot wrote:So people really buy those $10 50 round boxes of .22 ammo?!?!?
Almost: I think I paid about $75 per brick (plus shipping) for a few bricks of Eley Target during the panic when I couldn't find anything cheaper. I didn't like how oily it is, but I do like that I can see the difference in accuracy if I'm having a good day (which doesn't happen as often as I'd wish). I only use a box when I'm shooting for score, so it will be a long time before I run out. AutoMatch or Aguila SE is good enough for me when I'm not counting points. Even those are noticeably better than WWB. My revolver HATES that shit.

I would guess I get a failure to fire every 100-200 rounds, but that's a vague memory.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

Image
Image

Re: Why can't rimfire be reliable?

25
There are a couple things you can do increase 22LR accuracy

http://www.pacotools.com/tool_discriptions

check out the Rimchec' tool allows you to segregate and group your ammo by rim thickness .. thereby having a more consistent headspace which should give better accuracy


and the ACU’RZR tool which allows you to uniform your bullet diameter in two sizes 223 and 224 or the ACU~RZR 3 & 4 MAXI PRO which allows you to make all your bullets 222 or 223 or 224 or even 225 diameter whichever fits your bore best and gives the best accuracy.. the tool also gives you the option of forming the bullet as a wadcutter, or for hunting a deep dish hollowpoint , or the "scorpion" deep penetration with delayed expansion shape.

If you are totally anal and want complete control you can reload your own 2LR rimfire with this kit and some of the associated accessories http://22lrreloader.com/design-details/

recommend https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.mysh ... oducts/die

and https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.mysh ... g-compound

the repriming compound can also be used to rebuild both boxer and more importantly berdan primers, as well as recharge rimfire ammo.... something to look at if you have some of the old pistol caliber rimfire pistol like 32's

They have several videos and for the survivalists how to reload 22LR with matchheads and whatever happens to be laying around ... not my thing, when I have the proper priming compound and powders to do the job right...

Yes, I have a set.. tedious .. but nice to know you could if you had to.. more for making/ recharging berdan primers for most excellent 7.5 x55 Swiss RUAG berdan primed brass

The PACO tools will tighten up your groups

it all hinges on if you are willing to do the work instead of complain.. 22LR is not famous for super quality control .. but even more.. I can't think or any other cartridge that has to make owners of so many different brands or types of weapons ( with the associated manufacturing differences in tolerances), of so many barrel lengths, (pistol up thru long barreled rifles) and so many different type of actions ( lever , bolt ,auto, break action, pump) and feeding arrangements with a chamber that may be used for 3 different lengths of shells.. "happy" ??

You got to ask yourself .. exactly what version of all the 22 LR's ammo in the world are the standard irons sights regulated for?

Another option is to just keep trying different brands and types of 22LR until you find the one that works best .. which is what a lot of Mosin Nagant rifle owners do ( but in 7.62 x54 ) made in about 20 countries and 100 different arsenals around the world using at least 10 different powders all with slightly different rims , bullet weights, case dimensions .. .303 Brit can be like that as well, and both can be ammo that was made anywhere over a 70 year period of time.

And any ammo that has been surplused out and sold off had a problem , small or large, that some country didn't want to bet their soldiers life on.
Last edited by Sarge on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests