Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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We are entertaining the notion that the Democratic Party whose candidate shied away from acknowledging that black lives might matter at all is failing to address class because it's being good at addressing race? What planet is that true on? Can we please stop acting like the betrayal of the working class by both parties in American politics has been to the benefit of people of color? That's the fucking lie that keeps poor whites voting for the Bushes, but it really really really isn't the truth. Pretending that it is the truth is definitely not the solution. Addressing class inequity has ZERO requirement for this racist bullshit.
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Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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The title of this thread sounded good to me, something I could agree with, but that's not at all what I see from Jim Webb in the linked article.

He's not talking about uniting the working class, just using new and different language to divide it by race.

To unite the working class, you unite it in opposition to its common oppressor. Webb doesn't go there, not does any prominent Democrat other than (very tentatively) Bernie Sanders.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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Elmo wrote:The title of this thread sounded good to me, something I could agree with, but that's not at all what I see from Jim Webb in the linked article.

He's not talking about uniting the working class, just using new and different language to divide it by race.

To unite the working class, you unite it in opposition to its common oppressor. Webb doesn't go there, not does any prominent Democrat other than (very tentatively) Bernie Sanders.
This. The idea of unifying the working class is what I agree with as well.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
Jim Webb is not important here. What is important is a single minded focus against the corporations and elites with a unified working class. Just because I read something in an article doesn't mean it's the same thing the writer intended or even the subject. To me it's all about class, the shaping of the future administration cabinet is enough to reinforce my thoughts.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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Marlene wrote:This article's thesis summed up: "Jim Webb: he's like Bernie, but without meaningful economic analysis, but he makes up for it with a little racism, and racism seems to be popular these days."
This for me justifies righteous indignation. The attitude is typified by those who want to normalize, to accept, the Trump ideas out there. Trouble is, many of those ideas are not new.

Here is an article from The Atlantic showing how easy it may be to tip to internment camps.
It is wrong to judge or restrict the rights of an individual simply due to their membership in an identity group; imprisoning them on that basis is a particularly egregious abrogation of human rights; the mass imprisonment of Japanese Americans during World War II was immoral and unconstitutional. But critics went further. They argued that to air contrary opinions, to treat the targeted imprisonment of an ethnic minority as if it is open to debate in 2016, is to normalize something that ought to be stigmatized—a misstep that is particularly dangerous now, with a president-elect who has threatened to target Muslims with discriminatory policies based on their religion.

To definitively disprove that chain of logic is impossible—who can say for sure what the marginal effect of a debate will be?—and I sympathize with the people who operate as if it holds true, even if only out of an abundance of caution. Still, I worry that this logic of the risks of normalization isn’t simply unproven, but counterproductive.

Consider an alternative theory: George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Michael Bloomberg, and many others have prosecuted many policies that would’ve seemed unthinkable before 9/11. The years since the September 11 attacks have already proved that a significant percentage of Americans support targeted discrimination of some sort against Muslim Americans. Trump was elected despite plausible signs that he will go farther.

Put another way, many illiberal impulses are already normal, like it or not.
link:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... picks=true

Mass media has done its very best to erode the idea that such a thing as "the working class" exists. Mass media finds it much more profitable to have sub groups to make fun of so other groups will watch. Zero class consciousness.

The idea of "The 99%" was a pretty good one. Since the mass media does not follow it and follows, say, the idea that an election was hacked is nonsense, well, you don't get class consciousness. You get division--sweet, profitable, division.

What do we do?

Me, I still pursue that ever-elusive, hyper accurate and affordable, low recoil, recreational reloadable rifle round along with the rifle it sits in--perhaps it will fly from a skeletonized insect playing a subversive guitar. Be still, my anticipating heart. :coffee:

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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The Rainbow coalition was conceived by Jesse Jackson back in the 80s. He knew that the working class comprised people of all colors.

When asked how he expected to get his message across to white steel workers his answer was this,"I will convince the white steel worker he has more in common with black steel workers because he's a worker then his bosses because of the color of his skin".

Trump won areas that Obama carried twice so it's not race, it's class.

Howard Dean mentioned reaching out to poor whites in a way that could unify workers of all races in 2004 but the Dem establishment was having none of it.

I'm well aware of my privileged status as a white male, I've lived a good life and am not singled out by police or loan officers red lining neighborhoods, but it's a tough sell to people who are struggling to live on 16,000 a year with zero chance to send their kids to even a community college that they are privileged.

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
What ideas are on offer that aren't accurately described by my snarky summary?
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Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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Marlene wrote:
lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
What ideas are on offer that aren't accurately described by my snarky summary?
WWMD?
what would marx do?
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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Unified? The working class is hopelessly divided. Union leadership goes Democrat while a plurality (if not a majority) of the membership goes Trump. White workers vs black, union vs non-union, "skilled" vs "unskilled": they all work against each other to get the last meager scrap from the shrinking table. Back in the Gilded Age Jay Gould boasted he could "hire half the working class to kill the other half." We have come full circle and are now in a New Gilded Age.
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Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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Marlene wrote:We are entertaining the notion that the Democratic Party whose candidate shied away from acknowledging that black lives might matter at all is failing to address class because it's being good at addressing race? What planet is that true on? Can we please stop acting like the betrayal of the working class by both parties in American politics has been to the benefit of people of color? That's the fucking lie that keeps poor whites voting for the Bushes, but it really really really isn't the truth. Pretending that it is the truth is definitely not the solution. Addressing class inequity has ZERO requirement for this racist bullshit.
! this, times 365

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Last edited by dandad on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
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Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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sikacz wrote:To me a party looking after the working class will be looking after everyone. I don't really care if corporations and the elites have their feelings hurt and their wallets lightened.
Yes

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This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

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HuckleberryFun wrote:Unified? The working class is hopelessly divided. Union leadership goes Democrat while a plurality (if not a majority) of the membership goes Trump. White workers vs black, union vs non-union, "skilled" vs "unskilled": they all work against each other to get the last meager scrap from the shrinking table. Back in the Gilded Age Jay Gould boasted he could "hire half the working class to kill the other half." We have come full circle and are now in a New Gilded Age.
Ive wondered if part of the multitude levels of Us vs. Them , union vs non union, black vs, white, christian vs. Non Christian, Blue Collar vs. White collar, etc... Is just adaptations of the some peoples need to have someone to look down upon, so they can feel better about themselves? Not bases on anything really, and doesn't matter to the haters who it is they look down upon.

Then those who are looked down upon respond in kind.

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This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

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