CDFingers mentioned in another thread that he was looking at options for smaller peeps for a rifle sight to improve precision. Starting a thread to talk about peep sights rather than derail that conversation.
Smaller hole in the sight can increase precision in more ways than one. There's the obvious way, in which a smaller hole allows less room for alignment errors. Smaller errors look larger in proportion to the sighting area and are more easily detected by the eye; as one would expect.
The less obvious effect is that a smaller hole will act as a pinhole lens, which has infinite depth of field. This allows the front sight and the target to both appear in focus. This is both a comfort to aging eyes that may not be able to sight clearly without this effect, and a dramatic improvement in precision for younger eyes.
In low light, too small a hole allows too little light and clarity is lost. One must strike a balance: The smallest hole that allows enough light to see clearly is the best.
Many peep sights come with screw-in apertures. Usually there is a smaller disk with a larger hole provided and a "target" disk that is larger (to block out more of the surroundings and only see the target) and a hole that is smaller.
I have done a bit of match shooting with aperture sights. I found myself having trouble with a peep that was too small for the light available and t did terrible things to my score. Similarly, with too large a peep, I list that magical depth of field effect and I couldn't align the sights and target as well as I needed. The solution was an adjustable aperture. There are a few kinds available.
There is the Merit aperture, available in a bunch of configurations, all featuring the lovely mechanical irises that some of us remember from camera lenses or James Bond opening sequences. They make large and small disks, with threaded stems to fit most of the major sight manufacturers.
By twisting the outside of the disk, the aperture size can be adjusted.
There is also the Hadley style adjustable aperture, which selects from a bunch of different hole size choices, rotating each of them to the center of the sight disk. I shoot with one by Montana Vintage Arms. Hadley disks are mostly used on the tall tang sights seen on 19th century rifles that need tall sights with tons of elevation for lobbing big lead bullets at black powder velocities. This sight height allows Hadley disks to be made very large.
I was surprised to learn, that as long as the aperture doesn't change location, point of impact doesn't change with aperture size at all. Many iron sight shooters are well aware of varying available light changing how one sees the sights in a way that changes the point of impact. Changing aperture size does not have this effect. In fact, I change aperture size mid-string when shooting a match and a cloud moves in front of the sun. Having the best aperture size for the available light gives the best potential outcome. I can usually find a way to screw it up anyway.
Re: Aperture sights
2These are not talked about enough. I have them on my lever actions and the focus is pure magic. I'd like to find one of those select-a-peep discs.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Aperture sights
3Neat! I have trouble with peep sights and an adjustable could work for me. Thanks for posting this topic. You know what this means! I'll need to buy another rifle!
Re: Aperture sights
4This is the one I was looking at for the B7.
link:
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/166087 ... gQodQ54ILg
I have some other guns with peeps. The Marlin 336 is very good for looking at deer sized targets. Other than about 25 meters away, precision is hard. But a deer at any distance--much better than notch and blade due to elevation challenges.
The best one so far is on my VKT m39. The size is perfect for where it sits at the rear sight. Good precision is possible.
A relationship may be described among the distance between eye and rear sight, the diameter of the aperture, and the distance to the front bead. I'm sort of an experimental approach-taker here. The m39 peep is after market and offered no diameter option. Turns out it's good. But the Williams sight has other attachments. Prolly I'll end up getting all the action figures...
I do think aperatures are cool for my eyes.
CDFingers
link:
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/166087 ... gQodQ54ILg
I have some other guns with peeps. The Marlin 336 is very good for looking at deer sized targets. Other than about 25 meters away, precision is hard. But a deer at any distance--much better than notch and blade due to elevation challenges.
The best one so far is on my VKT m39. The size is perfect for where it sits at the rear sight. Good precision is possible.
A relationship may be described among the distance between eye and rear sight, the diameter of the aperture, and the distance to the front bead. I'm sort of an experimental approach-taker here. The m39 peep is after market and offered no diameter option. Turns out it's good. But the Williams sight has other attachments. Prolly I'll end up getting all the action figures...
I do think aperatures are cool for my eyes.
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Aperture sights
6The Merit #4 Hunting disc is so cool!
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Aperture sights
8If you use Tech Sights, they sell inserts to change the aperture size.
http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/
http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/
Glad that federal government is boring again.
Re: Aperture sights
9Yes, very informative thread.
I use (fixed size) aperture sights almost exclusively on my rifles, and this helps me understand some of the phenomema I have experienced, including low light effects.
It should be mentioned that there is also an relationship between aperture size and target acquisition speed, which figures into close quarter engagement in competition and otherwise.
I use (fixed size) aperture sights almost exclusively on my rifles, and this helps me understand some of the phenomema I have experienced, including low light effects.
It should be mentioned that there is also an relationship between aperture size and target acquisition speed, which figures into close quarter engagement in competition and otherwise.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Aperture sights
10The Tech Sights really transformed my SKS. I've always wanted to put a tang peep on my 1920's Marlin 39, but always seem to find something else that requires my $150+
Be sure to make good choices when you're being stupid...
Re: Aperture sights
11Yes, Tech Sights are great. I put them on my 10/22 to shoot an Appleseed clinic and would NEVER go back to the factory (leaf rear) sights.
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Aperture sights
12I had good peeps on the Winchester 94 (Williams) & SKS (TS200) that I used to have. There's a really nice peep on my Arisaka even if it's mounted further ahead on the barrel than is optimal; it still works really well. But I'm finding that on a woods rifle in various kinds of light, I really like the ghost ring type I put on my Rossi 92 even better. It works far better with my glasses as well.
I intend to get a fiber optic front sight as well.
I intend to get a fiber optic front sight as well.
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
Re: Aperture sights
13I wonder if these will go on a Garand &/or a M1917 without needing to thread the peep hole. Maybe a long shank and a nut on the backElmo wrote:Yes, Tech Sights are great. I put them on my 10/22 to shoot an Appleseed clinic and would NEVER go back to the factory (leaf rear) sights.
If it can be done to a Garand I'd guess you'd be someone who has seen it.
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Aperture sights
14well here are a selection of sizes for the Garand
http://shop.shootingsight.com/Reduced-A ... erture.htm
and the hooded one that you rotate to make a 1/2 minute adjustment up/down
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/594564 ... steel-blue
I just discovered this and I'm curious as hell!
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html
http://shop.shootingsight.com/Reduced-A ... erture.htm
and the hooded one that you rotate to make a 1/2 minute adjustment up/down
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/594564 ... steel-blue
I just discovered this and I'm curious as hell!
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html
Re: Aperture sights
15Thanks. I've seen those replacements but I was looking for I could screw in rather than seriously tinker with it. [If it was sitting right in front of me I know I would jump on the Tinker Train. ]Marlene wrote:well here are a selection of sizes for the Garand
http://shop.shootingsight.com/Reduced-A ... erture.htm
and the hooded one that you rotate to make a 1/2 minute adjustment up/down
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/594564 ... steel-blue
I just discovered this and I'm curious as hell!
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Aperture sights
17The right sized peep is magic on a rifle for those of us with poor eye sight.
One can get much of the same pinhole benefit with a pistol's iron sights with an aperture attached to one's glasses. Someone sells an expensive suction cup apparatus, but just a bit of tape with a hole in it can also work.
I have a black plastic hanging lense for this purpose, but many might find the tape solution more comfortable.
One can get much of the same pinhole benefit with a pistol's iron sights with an aperture attached to one's glasses. Someone sells an expensive suction cup apparatus, but just a bit of tape with a hole in it can also work.
I have a black plastic hanging lense for this purpose, but many might find the tape solution more comfortable.
Re: Aperture sights
18http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/
This looks like a possible fix for those double-wide peep holes on old military guns. Just pop those things in the holes. I need to do some measuring later. Maybe I'll design and sell them if they aren't a fit. Don't steal my idea, dammit!
This looks like a possible fix for those double-wide peep holes on old military guns. Just pop those things in the holes. I need to do some measuring later. Maybe I'll design and sell them if they aren't a fit. Don't steal my idea, dammit!
Puffing up is no substitute for smarts but it's a common home remedy
Re: Aperture sights
19I have quite a variety of Parker-Hale receiver sights made in England that have multi hole apertures, Some of them date to the early 20th century.
Re: Aperture sights
20Hey Joel, by any chance do you have a no-drill receiver sight for a Martini Henry you'd be willing to sell?
Re: Aperture sights
21I could use one of those for the Garand.Simmer down wrote:http://www.tech-sights.com/aperture-inserts/
This looks like a possible fix for those double-wide peep holes on old military guns. Just pop those things in the holes. I need to do some measuring later. Maybe I'll design and sell them if they aren't a fit. Don't steal my idea, dammit!
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: Aperture sights
22Not adjustable, but you can get different sizes for the Garand- $40 each
http://shop.shootingsight.com/Reduced-A ... erture.htm
http://shop.shootingsight.com/Reduced-A ... erture.htm
Re: Aperture sights
23This looks interesting for folks that might need it on the Garand or similar:
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html
Built in magnifier and replaceable diopters.
http://www.bjonessights.com/SR.html
Built in magnifier and replaceable diopters.
Re: Aperture sights
25GDI. That's what I get for reading Simmers post and not yours. Imma go over to the corner now.Marlene wrote:
Shin, read my post full of links up-thread