Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

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senorgrand
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Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#1 Post by senorgrand » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:02 pm

I live in a high density housing development with lots of anti-gun folks. Given the level of irrational fear about guns and my diminished capacity to engage in debate on the subject, I like to keep my hobby on the down low.

That means not dragging-out rifle cases. I transport all my toys in lockable tool boxes now.

I'm considering a hunting rifle for hogs and maybe deer. Calibers I am considering are .308 and 45-70 and MAYBE 30-30. Shots to be taken at between 75 and 150 yards.

Here's the rub...the gun needs to be a takedown.

Here's what I am considering:

Browning BLR Takedown
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Chiappa 45-70 Ridgerunner

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Thompson Encore .308
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I am kind of leaning towards the BLR, as it's probably the best compromise rifle among the three. The Encore is probably second. The 45-70 makes the list mostly on cool factor. I am also considering some of the Winchester 30-30 takedowns that can still be had.

What say you?
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#2 Post by FrontSight » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:29 pm

Any of those will get you going just fine. With the lever action rifles, just know that a LOT of rounds, and taking down a lot will wear the action. Personally, if I "wore out" a takedown lever rifle; I would wear that as a badge of pride:).

For hogs and deer, I would take a .357 or .44 mag Winchester 92 knock-off with a 20" barrel...just can't beat that for hogs.

With a revolver on black bear, I wasn't real impressed with the .357. But out of a 20" carbine, you get over 250fps more velocity, taking the .357 pretty close to the .30-30 range in power and performance. Plus the .357 is just a delight to shoot.
.44 mag in a light weight carbine is not all that fun to shoot, but VERY effective. A 265 grain jacketed flat point with ruin the day of most ANYTHING on 4 legs out to 150 yards.

Most of my hog kills were with handguns, anywhere from 9mm on up to .45 Colt. My rifle kills were with my .30-30 mostly, and a 150gr .30-30 just LEVEL's a large hog when you place them well.

So I would HIGHLY recommend a 20" take-down .30-30. Perfect for all species of deer, and devastating on hogs. Ammo can be had anywhere ammo is sold. Recoil is easy, those rifles are far more accurate than most give them credit. And...A take-down Winchester 94...That's just cool!!

Never saw a need for a .45-70 on hogs; just tears up too much meat. Even with a cast FP bullet, it's just messy.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#3 Post by senorgrand » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:23 pm

Thanks! Talked to some folks at the LGS...they are of the mind that 30 30 just ain't enough, but 45-70 is too much. One fella had a friend take a hog with a 7mm and it had a 30 30 slug in it's skull...
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#4 Post by leftneck » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:49 pm

Hey man,

Of those options, the one I have experience with is the BLR, albeit the non-takedown model. They are a nice gun, but can have some quirks. They actually have a rotary locking bolt, just like a bolt action rifle. They use a system of gears to translate the up and down motion of you working the lever into rotary motion to lock the bolt. They can get out of time, especially if assembled incorrectly. I dont' think it's as big an issue as The Internet would have you believe, but it's an issue.

I also think the 30-30's lack of power is no where near as bad as the The Internet would have you believe. Plenty of people kill elk with them out here.

When I lived in an apartment, I used to carry long guns in guitar and bass gig bags.

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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#5 Post by senorgrand » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:31 pm

leftneck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:49 pm
Hey man,

Of those options, the one I have experience with is the BLR, albeit the non-takedown model. They are a nice gun, but can have some quirks. They actually have a rotary locking bolt, just like a bolt action rifle. They use a system of gears to translate the up and down motion of you working the lever into rotary motion to lock the bolt. They can get out of time, especially if assembled incorrectly. I dont' think it's as big an issue as The Internet would have you believe, but it's an issue.

I also think the 30-30's lack of power is no where near as bad as the The Internet would have you believe. Plenty of people kill elk with them out here.

When I lived in an apartment, I used to carry long guns in guitar and bass gig bags.
Thanks...lots to consider here. I kind of like the idea of a BLR scout or a 30-30 carbine.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#6 Post by leftneck » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:29 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:31 pm
leftneck wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:49 pm
Hey man,

Of those options, the one I have experience with is the BLR, albeit the non-takedown model. They are a nice gun, but can have some quirks. They actually have a rotary locking bolt, just like a bolt action rifle. They use a system of gears to translate the up and down motion of you working the lever into rotary motion to lock the bolt. They can get out of time, especially if assembled incorrectly. I dont' think it's as big an issue as The Internet would have you believe, but it's an issue.

I also think the 30-30's lack of power is no where near as bad as the The Internet would have you believe. Plenty of people kill elk with them out here.

When I lived in an apartment, I used to carry long guns in guitar and bass gig bags.
Thanks...lots to consider here. I kind of like the idea of a BLR scout or a 30-30 carbine.
On thing that might drive your decision is whether you want an optic, and if so, how you want it mounted. If I understand the system correctly, the BLR scout mount attaches only to the barrel. All of the scout rails I've seen for the Winchester 94 connect both to the barrel and the receiver, so you'd be "bridging" across the take down feature, if that makes sense.

Another thing to thing to think about is logistics. I'm a a big fan of having a primary rifle that is in a common caliber. .45-70 isn't terribly UNcommon, but .30-30 and .308 tend to be much more available. Also .30-30 runs about $15 a box, .308 about $20. When I see .45-70 it is usually more. Plus I can shoot .30-30 out of a 7lb rifle all day. The .45-70 loads at Trapdoor Springfield levels (ie common RemChester loads) aren't that bad but they are a bit of a shove. The "Marlin only" loads are pretty teeth rattling.

If I were in your shoes, it would be hard for me to resist the Winchester Trail's End Take Down Model 94 in .30-30. I've always loved .30-30 lever action rifles, and if I only owned one center fire rifle, that would be it. I'd go after any game in North America with it, except brown bear. The current Winchesters made by Miroku are beautifully done, and the tang safety is well executed. As a general purpose rifle, it's hard to beat. It's accurate out to the ranges most people actually hunt, and is a dandy self defense tool as well.

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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#7 Post by Marlene » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:20 am

1) don't worry about optics because scout scopes suck and takedowns are not super accurate rifles and you're talking about pigs. Get a peep or a "ghost ring" (a bigger peep)

2) fuck that 45-70

3) fuck that contender

4) the BLR and its cartridge are probably better for your purpose

5) Miroku made Winchesters are joyful slick things of beauty, even if 30-30 will bounce off the nose of a bunnyrabbit at anything past 50 yards according to the interturd
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#8 Post by senorgrand » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:07 am

Thanks Marlene. I do like the Winchester Trapper 30-30 carbines. There's a pre-safety one on gunbroker

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/758938484

The stock could be removed to get it down to the size I need for traveling...
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#9 Post by Marlene » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:31 am

There are current takedowns by Miroku (sold as Winchester)

If you’re buying an older one, a trapper worth having will be a fortune (pre-64), but a 20” carbine, the best handling and carrying rifle ever built, can be had mechanically great and a perfect bore for $4-500
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#10 Post by Marlene » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:32 am

Basically Winchester 94s between ‘64 and end of American production are a pass
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#11 Post by senorgrand » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:43 am

What years are the Japanese ones?
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#12 Post by leftneck » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:59 am

senorgrand wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:43 am
What years are the Japanese ones?
I think production shifted to Japan in 2006.

I've owned or shot numerous post '64 Winchester 94's, and they were all perfectly functional firearms. As time went on Winchester phased out some of the 1964 changes, returning to solid pins vs roll pins, and a machined carrier instead of stamped steel, etc.

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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#13 Post by Marlene » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:37 am

Tbh, the post 64 and pre-80s gun’s are fine, just less beautiful. Angle Eject and later are my least favorite. They’re ok guns too, but no better than the current cheaper knockoffs.

Also, I could be talked out of my 1899 short magazine takedown, but new guns would be cheaper
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#14 Post by Marlene » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:40 am

If you’re looking for more power, there is an argument to be made for the Big Bore models. They were ugly, but the caliber choices (307,356,and 375) are perfect for your purpose. They are all hand load only propositions now.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#15 Post by senorgrand » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:50 am

BTW, Marlene: why do scout scopes suck? I've never had the opportunity to use one.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#16 Post by featureless » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:07 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:50 am
BTW, Marlene: why do scout scopes suck? I've never had the opportunity to use one.
You didn't ask me but... Scout scopes seem fine at 1-2X. Past that and the quick acquisition they promise at lower power is reduced. I have a 1x4 scout scope on my 308 Gunsite. It lacks in the longer range precision you'd get out of a traditional scope. Or maybe it's the shooter. ;)

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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#17 Post by FrontSight » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:12 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Thanks! Talked to some folks at the LGS...they are of the mind that 30 30 just ain't enough, but 45-70 is too much. One fella had a friend take a hog with a 7mm and it had a 30 30 slug in it's skull...
.30-30 ain't enough? WFT plant do they live on?
I have killed 400lb hogs with a 124gr 9mm! Hogs that I have killed with the .30-30 were just plain LEVELED!
Remember, hog hunting is an up-close sort of things. Shots beyond 75 yards are pretty rare unless you specifically set out for such shots.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#18 Post by FrontSight » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:18 pm

Marlene wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:20 am
1) don't worry about optics because scout scopes suck and takedowns are not super accurate rifles and you're talking about pigs. Get a peep or a "ghost ring" (a bigger peep)

2) fuck that 45-70

3) fuck that contender

4) the BLR and its cartridge are probably better for your purpose

5) Miroku made Winchesters are joyful slick things of beauty, even if 30-30 will bounce off the nose of a bunnyrabbit at anything past 50 yards according to the interturd
Now here's a man who knows what he's talking about. Although I never once felt I needed a peep sight when hog hunting, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having them. My 1927 Winchester has REALLY nice standard iron sights (they don't make them like that anymore), so I have made shots on game all the way out to 225 yards and never once felt "under-gunned".
The largest hog I have killed with my .30-30 was about 340 lbs. But my grandfather used the exact same rifle to level a charging 620lb Razorback back around 1974.

And yeah, Scout scopes suck. It's been proven time and time again that a conventionally mounted scope is faster and offers more options. The "Scout rifle" concept is a HIGHLY FLAWED rifle concept (as originally conceived).
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#19 Post by senorgrand » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:21 pm

Thanks all...much to consider.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#20 Post by leftneck » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:35 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:50 am
BTW, Marlene: why do scout scopes suck? I've never had the opportunity to use one.
Not Marlene, but...

The original proponent of the "scout scope" was Jeff Cooper. Like many of the things he proposed, they are artifacts of the times in which he was writing.

I wouldn't say that a scout scope sucks, I would just say there are currently better options. The disadvantages are: that the higher you crank up the magnification, the harder they are to use; at low sun angles they can wash out pretty bad, and they often do whacky things to the balance of the firearm. The advantages are that they are quick, and allow for snap shooting with both eyes open; they allow access to the top of the action on a bolt action rifle (which allows for use of stripper clips); and they allow for a receiver mounted peep/ghost ring sight.

The thing is, nobody uses stripper clips any more. There are plenty of bolt guns with detachable box magazines out there. The back up iron sight issue is less of A Thing now than it used to be. In the 50's and 60's when Cooper cooked up the scout scope concept, scopes routinely failed. Now, if you've a quality optic, it's much less likely. Compromising your primary sighting system so you can optimize your back up sighting system seems like a poor trade off to me. My .308 wears a regular old front sight and a mid barrel sight that stays zeroed, but I've never had to use them despite the rifle riding on many miles of bad roads and my proclivity for falling down the mountain at least once an Elk season.

On my .308 bolt gun, I have a conventionally mounted Leupold 1.75 to 5x scope. Running close range drills set on 1.75x, I can easily shoot very quickly with both eyes open. For longer shots, I can dial down to 5x. In Cooper's day, the only thing more fragile than a fixed power scope was a variable power scope. But nowadays, unless you are buying a Wal-Mart special, you can depend on it to hold zero and such.

Then there are also lots of small micro-red dots and such, which might go very well indeed on a lever action rifle. I feel that putting big optics on a lever action really takes away from its handling.

You mentioned early perhaps removing the stock to transport the rifle. There's a finite number of times you could do that before the wood will be wallowed out to the point it wouldn't hold anymore.

A 20" Winchester Model 94 or Marlin 336 is only 38" long. A 16" barreled Winchester Trapper or Marlin 336Y (the youth model) will come in at about 34". There's all sorts of innocuous looking cases that will fit rifles that size.

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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#21 Post by senorgrand » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:50 pm

Thanks...great post!
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#22 Post by FrontSight » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:04 pm

Scout scopes have been proven again and again to NOT be quicker than conventionally mounted scopes. The ONLY advantage they offer is for access to the top of the receiver, in the case of someone who wants to use stripper clips on a bolt action, or who has a pre AE Winchester 94 that ejects out the top. There is literally NO other advantage that scope set up brings to the table. Unless you call poor field of view, bungled balance, low magnification, and easily washed out objective lenses and "advantage".

Even during the time of Cooper's creation of the "Scout rifle", the whole notion was flawed. He was trying to make a sporting rifle that could double as a battle rifle. What you walked away with was a rifle that did neither very well.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#23 Post by Marlene » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:19 pm

The scout scope as a concept made sense when red dots didn't exist. The forward mount was about stripper clips. Forward mount just makes looking through the scope awkward.

Aparently, when I click on a post by frontsight, he's simultaneously complimenting me and calling me a dude, so blocked he stays.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#24 Post by FrontSight » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:37 pm

Marlene,

Not calling you anything sir... I have nothing but respect.
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Re: Pondering a takedown hunting rifle...thoughts?

#25 Post by shinzen » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:36 pm

Fronsight- why are you using sir as a moniker when addressing her?
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