Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

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Elmo
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Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#1 Post by Elmo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:17 pm

I've put up a couple of pics on the LGC Facebook page on this, but I wanted to post here as well.

CMP holds a lottery each November to see who gets to attend its very popular M1 Garand Advanced Maintenance Class throughout the next year.

I put my name in on a lark, and to my amazement, drew a late March date. I arranged for time off work and travel to lovely Anniston, AL. CMP's description of the class is here: http://thecmp.org/training-tech/advance ... nce-class/

The class was really excellent. I learned a lot, including techniques I had never attempted before and can now apply to the other M1s (and the M1A) that I own, such as trigger "cleanup" (removing second-stage creep). A big part of the class is to build your own rifle, essentially a "CMP Special" grade with the guidance of CMP armorers in part selection, assembly, and tuning. That rifle is now being shipped to me by CMP -- my first use of the FFL03 license I applied for in January and received a couple of weeks ago.

At the end of the class, we went to the amazing new CMP Marksmanship facility at Talladega (about 20 miles from Anniston) to function check and sight in our new rifles. This pic shows part of my rifle and the screen of the new automated target system, which is fantastic. Pretty good first 100-yard group on a very windy day.
My M1 my target small.jpg
In other CMP news, they are receiving crates of 1911s but will need lots of time (months at least) to sift through them and see what's there. No pricing set, either, but don't expect cheap. They want them thought of as collectors, rather than shooters. In our instructor's view, "The first time one of these gets used in a crime, that's the end of the [CMP] program."

As for M1 Garands, they are currently selling from a batch of Turkish returns, originally 15,000 rifles with about 13,000 currently left. Quality is very mixed, as expected with old rifles. They are also getting in a larger group (80,000) from the Philipines, but the percentage of serviceable rifles and parts in this group is expected to be much lower.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#2 Post by lurker » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:31 pm

EXTREMELY COOL.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#3 Post by Inquisitor » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:28 pm

Yes. Yes indeed.


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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#4 Post by Marlene » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:35 pm

I’m jealous.

So, what can I do for you in exchange for giving mine the once over? Machine work? Engraving?
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#5 Post by senorgrand » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:37 pm

That is seriously cool.
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Release the tapes!

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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#6 Post by sikacz » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:03 pm

Excellent! I really want to put my name in the hat in November. Seen your post and another persons that went. Really looked like fun. Do they always ship the rifle or can it be brought home? Does it depend on home state?
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#7 Post by AndyH » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:39 pm

Very cool - congrats, Elmo!

What ammo did you shoot, BTW?
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#8 Post by Elmo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:15 pm

Andy, the CMP instructors did the first function check and sight in on it using Greek surplus HXP 147gr. His final five shots were in a group smaller than mine. I then shot a box of Creedmoor match ammo that I bought there, 168gr I think, and that's what was shown in the pic.

Marlene, I'll be happy to share what I learned, e.g., about the trigger clean up. What little I knew about trigger work going in is mostly from reading your posts here, so this might not be new to you. I am ordering the stone we used in the class, a Norton medium India stone, 6"x1/2"x1/2". The dimensions matter, because of the technique we learned, which I'll be happy to show you. I'll be bringing it to Meet in the Middle and we can do a quick show-and-tell if you'll be there.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#9 Post by Marlene » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:44 pm

Awesome.

I was mostly interested in any other Garand mechanicking you learned. I have one that I haven't had apart yet and it's full of lithium grease. I'm uncertain if the bolt release on clip insertion is working the way it is supposed to. It's one of the old Chabot loaner guns.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#10 Post by Elmo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:16 pm

We used this device,

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10073 ... and-delrin

to check that. I just ordered one from MIdway.

The timing is determined by the interaction of two rather innocuous parts, called the accelerator and the bullet guide. Mine worked on the first try, but some didn't. For those, they swapped out the bullet guide until they found one that timed correctly. I think there is another option involving peening, but I didn't see that demonstrated.

It's great you scored one of the Chabot loaners. I wondered what happened to them.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#11 Post by Elmo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:26 pm

Adding, this is a good thread on the topic of M1 Garand timing (even though it is on an M14 forum):

http://m14forum.com/gus-fisher/127078-c ... iming.html
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#12 Post by Elmo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:32 pm

From the above thread:

"One of THE most common causes of Timing Problems is a worn or too short "nose" on the Bullet Guide. The Blue Print spec. for the height is .175" to.178". HOWEVER, that is TOO SHORT for many Garands to time correctly. In the Post WWII Era, they made the notched bullet guides with noses .180" to .184" to correct that. After checking all the parts to make sure they are good and not worn, the FIRST thing Military Armorers were taught to do to correct timing was peen the nose on the bullet guide to stretch it out higher and that corrected timing in a whole bunch rifles."
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#13 Post by Marlene » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:44 pm

Thanks!

The Chabot rifles went to Elite Armory in Castro Valley. They may even have some stuff left.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#14 Post by AndyH » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:21 pm

Elmo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:15 pm
Andy, the CMP instructors did the first function check and sight in on it using Greek surplus HXP 147gr. His final five shots were in a group smaller than mine. I then shot a box of Creedmoor match ammo that I bought there, 168gr I think, and that's what was shown in the pic.
Thank you! I don't know enough about the range of pressure the op rod can handle, so have been hand loading an M2 ball recipe. I appreciate knowing that there are more ammo options that are safe to use.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#15 Post by Marlene » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:08 pm

Maybe you can definitively answer a question for me. I have heard some places that the bolt should not release as soon as the clip hits bottom. but wait until pressure is released. I have heard other places that the bolt should release as soon as the clip locks in. The former is what led me to believe that mine could use some tinkering. Do you know what the deal is with this conflicting information?
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#16 Post by Elmo » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:14 am

AndyH wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:21 pm
Elmo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:15 pm
Andy, the CMP instructors did the first function check and sight in on it using Greek surplus HXP 147gr. His final five shots were in a group smaller than mine. I then shot a box of Creedmoor match ammo that I bought there, 168gr I think, and that's what was shown in the pic.
Thank you! I don't know enough about the range of pressure the op rod can handle, so have been hand loading an M2 ball recipe. I appreciate knowing that there are more ammo options that are safe to use.
Andy, I have used several brands of commercial .30-06 that specifically say on the box they are designed for the M1 Garand, including Prvi Partisani and Federal American Eagle. The CMP store in Anniston was selling Sellier & Bellot, also labeled Garand safe, and the Creedmoor match ammo I bought. The Creedmoor was not so labeled, so I asked our instructor about it. He said, "everything we sell is safe for the Garand."

Even though you'll find web testimonials about shooting every kind of ammo in Garands without issue, the CMP recommends sticking to M2 Ball or its commercial equivalent.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#17 Post by Elmo » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:16 am

Marlene, my understanding and experience is that the bolt moves forward when downward pressure on the clip is RELEASED. That is, as long as I keep pushing down on the bottomed-out clip, the bolt does not move. But when I release the downward pressure, the bolt starts to travel forward. That's what makes it nearly impossible to get "Garand thumb" in the process of loading a functioning rifle. You'd have to release pressure, then deliberately stick you thumb back in to get caught.

Now if you are asking if there is an intentional delay in bolt movement from when downward pressure is released, I don't think so. But it is not super quick either.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#18 Post by Elmo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:42 pm

I just received the M1 Garand I built in the class. I took it apart and put a few coats of boiled linseed oil on the wood, and back together again.

I now have three CMP Garands, enough to...

STACK 'EM!
Garands.jpg
My living room never looked better.

I've been waiting for an opportunity to use those stacking swivels ever since I got the first one in 2010.
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#19 Post by Marlene » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:43 pm

so jealous!!
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#20 Post by sikacz » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:58 pm

Linseed, you took everything off the stock?
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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#21 Post by Elmo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:10 am

I left the front stock ferrule with swivel and the handguard metal. I masked the metal with tape before applying oil.

In other words, the wood looked like this when I oiled it.

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Re: Just back from CMP Advanced Maintenance Class

#22 Post by sikacz » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:43 am

Elmo wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:10 am
I left the front stock ferrule with swivel and the handguard metal. I masked the metal with tape before applying oil.

In other words, the wood looked like this when I oiled it.

Image
Only on outside surfaces, ones that will be visible? How much did the color change?
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