Spending more time at the range.

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lsj74
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Spending more time at the range.

#1 Post by lsj74 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:47 pm

My wife got me a one year membership to a new indoor range as an early Christmas present and I have been going every Sunday for about 5 weeks. I'll spend around 3 hours there and burn through around 300-400 22LR and at least 100 9MM plus if I see something that I like in the rental case that will be at least 50 rounds through that. Last week I went through almost 700 rounds total.
I have started seeing progress in my performance, less flinching and the groups are getting better.
I really enjoy that range because of the rentals and friendly staff and I don't have to depend on the weather to go shoot.
I love getting to try different firearms when I go there but it just makes the list of guns i want longer. So far i have rented 5th gen Glock 19 and 26, CZ P-10C, S&W Airweight, Robert's Defense 1911, Walther Q5 Match and PPS and there are still a few I want to try out.
This might get to be very expensive.
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#2 Post by lurker » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm

this last range trip i got to try a pistol i've coveted for years, and discovered that while i still very much like the idea of it, i found it unpleasant to shoot, thereby saving myself several hundred dollars. disappointing, but overall a good thing.
Last edited by lurker on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#3 Post by Marlene » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm

Nice!
Shooting a lot is the best way to get good.
Eventually, I started to burn less because I run out of focus before I run out of ammo.
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#4 Post by shinzen » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:43 pm

Agreed. After several years of shooting a bunch (for me), my plan and records have tended to drop off as I shoot as much as I can handle. Which is less than it used to be, but better quality by far.
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#5 Post by shinzen » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm

Except shotgun. I still need a lot of work on shotgun. And rifle. And pistol. Hell, I still suck. But not as badly as I once did.
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#6 Post by lsj74 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm

lurker wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm
this last range trip i got to try a pistol i've coveted for years, and discovered that while i still very much like the idea of it, i found it unpleasant to shoot, thereby saving myself several hundred dollars. disappointing, but overall a good thing.
Yes that is one good thing about renting guns. The Roberts defense 1911 is a $2500 pistol and it jammed on me 4 or 5 times. I actually like my Ruger 1911 better.
Marlene wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm
Nice!
Shooting a lot is the best way to get good.
Eventually, I started to burn less because I run out of focus before I run out of ammo.
I'm finding my back starts to get sore from standing in one spot and the shoulders get sore from keeping my arms extended. I think the issue with the shoulders will just fix it self as I go on but I don't think the back will get any better.

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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#7 Post by lsj74 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:52 pm

shinzen wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm
Except shotgun. I still need a lot of work on shotgun. And rifle. And pistol. Hell, I still suck. But not as badly as I once did.
Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat.
I mostly shoot pistols.
I didn't get good at shooting. I got slightly better but I'm far from good.
When I shoot the 22 pistols I started to put one inch pasties on the target and try to hit as many as I can with 10 rounds at 21 feet. It does seem to help the focus a little bit. 6 hits is my best so far.

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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#8 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:38 am

lsj74 wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm
lurker wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm
this last range trip i got to try a pistol i've coveted for years, and discovered that while i still very much like the idea of it, i found it unpleasant to shoot, thereby saving myself several hundred dollars. disappointing, but overall a good thing.
Yes that is one good thing about renting guns. The Roberts defense 1911 is a $2500 pistol and it jammed on me 4 or 5 times. I actually like my Ruger 1911 better.
Marlene wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:51 pm
Nice!
Shooting a lot is the best way to get good.
Eventually, I started to burn less because I run out of focus before I run out of ammo.
I'm finding my back starts to get sore from standing in one spot and the shoulders get sore from keeping my arms extended. I think the issue with the shoulders will just fix it self as I go on but I don't think the back will get any better.
I agree with all of the above. Some guns seem to be just right--till you rent one and hate it. Nothing against the people who like these guns, but the M&P and the CZ75 were, for me, just about the most awful hand guns I've tried. The answer is simple--buy what works for you, and I did, mostly. I'd still like a Beretta 92fs, and a 9mm revolver, but that's tangential.

My last range shoot, I spend 2 hours on a 50 yard range. Knees (need surgery), back, right wrist and elbow (both from being a carpenter in my wasted youth) all ache. But, as Maureen pointed out, the hardest thing is retaining focus and restraining the urge to just go bang! bang! bang! bang! bang! It's like anything you have to practice, when you get tired, especially over-tired, performance and motivation deteriorate.

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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#9 Post by CDFingers » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:33 am

I'm glad you posted this Isj24. It's true that in order to improve, we have to shoot more. It's good you hooked up with the local indoor range and developed a schedule. My time will open up again in a few months.

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You need to see a Fitter to shoot a shotgun well

#10 Post by NuJudge » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:51 pm

shinzen wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm
Except shotgun. I still need a lot of work on shotgun. And rifle. And pistol. Hell, I still suck. But not as badly as I once did.
For years, my father took me Upland hunting and occasionally Skeet shooting with an out-of-the-box Remington 1100. I would score between 12 and 15 on Skeet. When I was about age 35, he took me to a shotgun Fitter. He made some modifications to my shotgun, coached me, and suddenly I could consistently shoot 21 or 22 in Skeet, occasionally a 25. What I learned was that the typical commercial shotgun is made for a male, right-handed, right-eyed, 5ft 8in tall, about 180 pounds. The biggest thing that varies is the stock length: the typical commercial shotgun has a stock "pull" (length between face of the trigger and middle of the buttplate) of 14-and-a-half inches. Me being 6ft 4in tall, I needed a much longer stock, with a pull of 16 inches(!). It looks ridiculous, but it works, so maybe its not so ridiculous.

You need to know which is your master eye for shotgunning. There is an easy-to-do test, but apparently some people that are ambidextrous, and there are people such as myself who have weak eye dominance, which tends to switch when I am tired. With a shotgun, shoot with the same shoulder as your master eye, even if that's not your master hand.

For someone such as myself that is right eyed, they will point the shotgun with their LEFT hand. The first coach I worked with encouraged me to point the index finger of my left hand down the barrels, and I do think it helps with hand-eye coordination.

What works for most people is a boxer-type stance. Stick your mits up, for someone right-eyed put your left foot and hand forward, and have your weight on the balls of your feet. I have my legs slightly bent. Having your balance on the balls of your feet will for some reason make it much harder for you to stop your swing, the most common failing of new Skeet shooters.

You need to "keep your wood (your head) on the wood (the stock)". If you're not displacing flesh from your cheek on the comb of the stock, you're not pushing into it hard enough.

For shotgunning, focus your master eye on the bird, but look ahead of it by the lead you need, and the shotgun will follow your eye. One of my problems with pistol shooting is that I will sometimes be in a hurry to look over my sights to see where a shot fell on the target. When I do this, I regularly will throw a flier out the top of my group, as the gun is following my eye. Before you call for a Skeet bird, think about the lead you will need, and visualize it before you call for the bird. On a Skeet field, visualizing the lead you need can be done in finger widths, as at the distance targets are away from you, 1 finger will occlude about 1 foot in length. For station 1, you need about a half to 3/4 of a foot lead. At station 2 you need about a foot and a half (more about this later). Station 3 needs 3 feet, which is a heck of a lot. Station 4 requires 4 feet, which is just beyond belief, but it works. You count down the other way through the rest of the arc. My first coach had me shooting last in a string of shooters, holding up the requisite number of fingers to visualize the lead I needed as the others shot.

When visualizing the lead you need, when in doubt, go with the longer lead. The reason is that the shot charge goes down range as a teardrop shaped cloud, not the disc shape that most people think. That teardrop has a tail, and if your lead is too much, but your elevation is right, the tail will still break the Skeet.

The second station on the arc and its counter part on the other end of the arc are a special cases for the outgoing birds. The rate of change of angle is so high as to be too fast to establish a steady lead, and I have to use another technique: swing through and be pulling the trigger as I do. It works for me about 75% of the time.

The last two shooting positions in the middle of the field where the targets go overhead also take special techniques. Here also, the rate of change of angle is quite high, and one has to visualize just blotting the bird out with your shotgun barrel and be pulling the trigger as you do. My first coach had another goofy-looking drill, to stand behind someone shooting these stations and point my left hand at the bird as the other person called for and shot the bird. Goofy sounding and looking, but it worked for me.

You will probably shoot a shotgun a lot better if you shoot lighter shells. Typical 12 gauge target ammo has ounce-and-an-eighth shotcharges, while 20 gauge will have 3/4 ounce charges. I have had several shotguns with both 12 and 20 gauge barrel sets. If I shot 3 rounds of Skeet with factory ammo through the 12 gauge, my third round score was a lot worse than the others. With a 20 gauge barrel set, I could shoot 3 or 4 rounds of Skeet with little drop in scores. The only place I feel I really need a 12 gauge is hunting waterfowl, and that is because of Steel shot. If you look really hard, you can find 12 gauge shotshells loaded with as little as 5/8 ounces of shot, which are a delight through a double gun, but may not function through a pump and won't function through an auto. I have shot Skeet with just 5/8 ounce in a 12 gauge, and done about as well as with an ounce and an eighth. My typical handload is just 3/4 ounce.

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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#11 Post by joshnickmc » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:57 pm

Lsj74,

That’s awesome that you got a membership! I’m in the same boat, though I’ve been out my CZ 527 in .223 and my savage axis in .308. Ive actually shot less since I’ve been going to the rant weekly. Two groups of five at 100 yards and four groups of five at 200 yards on the bench. Then two groups of five off-hand at 50 yards. That’s been my drill, lots of fun!
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Re: Spending more time at the range.

#12 Post by lsj74 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:28 pm

joshnickmc wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:57 pm
Lsj74,

That’s awesome that you got a membership! I’m in the same boat, though I’ve been out my CZ 527 in .223 and my savage axis in .308. Ive actually shot less since I’ve been going to the rant weekly. Two groups of five at 100 yards and four groups of five at 200 yards on the bench. Then two groups of five off-hand at 50 yards. That’s been my drill, lots of fun!
The CZ 527 with a set trigger is on my wishlist.
I have a CZ 455 in a 22 and it's a tack driver at 50 yards.

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Re: You need to see a Fitter to shoot a shotgun well

#13 Post by CDFingers » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:05 am

NuJudge wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:51 pm
shinzen wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:45 pm
Except shotgun. I still need a lot of work on shotgun. And rifle. And pistol. Hell, I still suck. But not as badly as I once did.
For years, my father took me Upland hunting and occasionally Skeet shooting with an out-of-the-box Remington 1100. I would score between 12 and 15 on Skeet. When I was about age 35, he took me to a shotgun Fitter. He made some modifications to my shotgun, coached me, and suddenly I could consistently shoot 21 or 22 in Skeet, occasionally a 25. What I learned was that the typical commercial shotgun is made for a male, right-handed, right-eyed, 5ft 8in tall, about 180 pounds. The biggest thing that varies is the stock length: the typical commercial shotgun has a stock "pull" (length between face of the trigger and middle of the buttplate) of 14-and-a-half inches. Me being 6ft 4in tall, I needed a much longer stock, with a pull of 16 inches(!). It looks ridiculous, but it works, so maybe its not so ridiculous.

You need to know which is your master eye for shotgunning. There is an easy-to-do test, but apparently some people that are ambidextrous, and there are people such as myself who have weak eye dominance, which tends to switch when I am tired. With a shotgun, shoot with the same shoulder as your master eye, even if that's not your master hand.

For someone such as myself that is right eyed, they will point the shotgun with their LEFT hand. The first coach I worked with encouraged me to point the index finger of my left hand down the barrels, and I do think it helps with hand-eye coordination.

What works for most people is a boxer-type stance. Stick your mits up, for someone right-eyed put your left foot and hand forward, and have your weight on the balls of your feet. I have my legs slightly bent. Having your balance on the balls of your feet will for some reason make it much harder for you to stop your swing, the most common failing of new Skeet shooters.

You need to "keep your wood (your head) on the wood (the stock)". If you're not displacing flesh from your cheek on the comb of the stock, you're not pushing into it hard enough.

For shotgunning, focus your master eye on the bird, but look ahead of it by the lead you need, and the shotgun will follow your eye. One of my problems with pistol shooting is that I will sometimes be in a hurry to look over my sights to see where a shot fell on the target. When I do this, I regularly will throw a flier out the top of my group, as the gun is following my eye. Before you call for a Skeet bird, think about the lead you will need, and visualize it before you call for the bird. On a Skeet field, visualizing the lead you need can be done in finger widths, as at the distance targets are away from you, 1 finger will occlude about 1 foot in length. For station 1, you need about a half to 3/4 of a foot lead. At station 2 you need about a foot and a half (more about this later). Station 3 needs 3 feet, which is a heck of a lot. Station 4 requires 4 feet, which is just beyond belief, but it works. You count down the other way through the rest of the arc. My first coach had me shooting last in a string of shooters, holding up the requisite number of fingers to visualize the lead I needed as the others shot.

When visualizing the lead you need, when in doubt, go with the longer lead. The reason is that the shot charge goes down range as a teardrop shaped cloud, not the disc shape that most people think. That teardrop has a tail, and if your lead is too much, but your elevation is right, the tail will still break the Skeet.

The second station on the arc and its counter part on the other end of the arc are a special cases for the outgoing birds. The rate of change of angle is so high as to be too fast to establish a steady lead, and I have to use another technique: swing through and be pulling the trigger as I do. It works for me about 75% of the time.

The last two shooting positions in the middle of the field where the targets go overhead also take special techniques. Here also, the rate of change of angle is quite high, and one has to visualize just blotting the bird out with your shotgun barrel and be pulling the trigger as you do. My first coach had another goofy-looking drill, to stand behind someone shooting these stations and point my left hand at the bird as the other person called for and shot the bird. Goofy sounding and looking, but it worked for me.

You will probably shoot a shotgun a lot better if you shoot lighter shells. Typical 12 gauge target ammo has ounce-and-an-eighth shotcharges, while 20 gauge will have 3/4 ounce charges. I have had several shotguns with both 12 and 20 gauge barrel sets. If I shot 3 rounds of Skeet with factory ammo through the 12 gauge, my third round score was a lot worse than the others. With a 20 gauge barrel set, I could shoot 3 or 4 rounds of Skeet with little drop in scores. The only place I feel I really need a 12 gauge is hunting waterfowl, and that is because of Steel shot. If you look really hard, you can find 12 gauge shotshells loaded with as little as 5/8 ounces of shot, which are a delight through a double gun, but may not function through a pump and won't function through an auto. I have shot Skeet with just 5/8 ounce in a 12 gauge, and done about as well as with an ounce and an eighth. My typical handload is just 3/4 ounce.
I just did some skeet shooting on Friday, and this is a very helpful post. Thanks for this.

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