voter turnout

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highdesert
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Re: voter turnout

#26 Post by highdesert » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:28 pm

I'm registered independent (no party preference in CA) as a protest against the Democratic Party taking me for granted. If we had ranked voting the major parties could see which candidates were winning and I'd also like to see "None of the Above" added to the ballot. The two major parties have gobbled up smaller ones over the decades, they've become the big tent and lost any focus. I'd like to see a minor party or a coalition of parties capture a small state and change it to a parliamentary type system of government and see how that works, I think it would be much more responsive to voters.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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featureless
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Re: voter turnout

#27 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:33 pm

highdesert wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:28 pm
I'm registered independent (no party preference in CA)
I've considered this as well. Didn't it used to mean you couldn't have a meaningful vote in the primary, or am I just confused (again)? You get the full ballot these days?

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Re: voter turnout

#28 Post by VodoundaVinci » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:50 pm

eelj wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:11 pm
Polling has shown that greens tend to not vote at all unless they have a green candidate to vote for. The same with libertarians. In my state third parties have a very rich history. Even the state democratic party is part of that history being the result of the merger back in the 40s with the Farmer Labor party.

Maybe if the 2 party duopoly cared more about their constituents there wouldn't be so many independent voters.
I started my voting Life as a Republican that voted across party lines - I vote for people who perform and who do what I elected them to do. If they didn't do that, they got booted (or at least didn't get my vote) the next time around. Then as the Republican Party decided we had weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and spent trillions murdering civilians I found myself voting for more and more Democratic candidates because they weren't Republicans. And then The Democratic Party became what they hated and suspended Democratic Process, expanded efforts to disarm me, took *HuGe* amounts of Corporate $ to further Corporate Agendas and forced me out of the nest. As they did my whole family which has voted Democrat since 1930.

The Democratic Party needs purged and that's not gonna happen so I either vote Independent or not at all. Personally after what the Democrats pulled in 2016 I'm 73.67% convinced the elections are fixed/controlled and that we are going to get Oligarchy controlled leadership no matter who votes how. My opinion mimics/tracks the opinion of the dozens of people I talked to before and after this midterm about why they didn't vote - the vast majority of them did not vote and do not vote because they feel it is all rigged anyway and there are no viable candidates, Democrats or Republicans, that represent what they feel America needs or wants.

America is floundering because our Government, all of it, is the most corrupt and "owned" Government in the history of mankind. Vote how ya want...they are immune. That's why folks don't vote.

VooDoo

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Re: voter turnout

#29 Post by eelj » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:05 pm

I don't know which system is better but I'm quite comfortable with the fact in Mn you do not declare for any party when registering. A person can then choose which party to caucus for at a whim.

Technically I'm a democrat because I attend their meetings and have a directors position with my county party. But I still vote for who I please and not always a dem, never have found a repug worth voting for.

I think the key to getting people out to vote is just making it easier to vote. Mn and Or seem to be very easy states to vote in, maybe the easiest. Both states have very high voter turn out.

Just think what the turnout would have been in Georgia if 340,000 voters hadn't been purged

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highdesert
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Re: voter turnout

#30 Post by highdesert » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:33 pm

featureless wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:33 pm
highdesert wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:28 pm
I'm registered independent (no party preference in CA)
I've considered this as well. Didn't it used to mean you couldn't have a meaningful vote in the primary, or am I just confused (again)? You get the full ballot these days?
It used to be that when you registered independent you could only vote for non-partisan offices and other ballot items at the primary. I did request after I changed party designation a Democratic ballot at the primaries and received it, but with our "jungle primary" now I think it's all history because the top two candidates regardless of party go on to the general election. Check with your local registrar of voters office to be certain. That NPP (independent) is the second largest "party" in CA says something but the major parties aren't listening.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: voter turnout

#31 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:12 pm

highdesert wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:33 pm
featureless wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:33 pm
highdesert wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:28 pm
I'm registered independent (no party preference in CA)
I've considered this as well. Didn't it used to mean you couldn't have a meaningful vote in the primary, or am I just confused (again)? You get the full ballot these days?
It used to be that when you registered independent you could only vote for non-partisan offices and other ballot items at the primary. I did request after I changed party designation a Democratic ballot at the primaries and received it, but with our "jungle primary" now I think it's all history because the top two candidates regardless of party go on to the general election. Check with your local registrar of voters office to be certain. That NPP (independent) is the second largest "party" in CA says something but the major parties aren't listening.
Thanks! I'll look into it.

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Re: voter turnout

#32 Post by joemac » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:55 pm

CDFingers wrote:
How do you respond to shit going crazy? Simple: You keep poking the crazy until their crazy is clear. Trump and the GOP are gonna say that Democrats are "harassing" them by investigating. It won't matter if Democrats are probing the most obvious shit, like voter suppression. The second some official is forced to produce documents, Trump will say how "no man was ever treated worse." It won't matter. Every Democratic bill will be labeled "socialism." Every opposition to a nominee will be called "obstruction." He is going to war. So be in a war posture. Go on the offense (and I talked how to do that Wednesday), ignore the right-wing noise machine, and bring a modicum of sanity back.

Gird yer loins, sweet Americans. If you thought times have been intense already, we're about to barrel into maelstrom.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2018/11/ ... crazy.html

Caution for timid readers, as this is the Rude Pundit. Very rude.

CDFingers
Damn CD, that is priceless. Stay safe in Cali.


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Re: voter turnout

#33 Post by Greengunner » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:13 pm

A few points I'd like to make here. My wife grew up in France, so I'll use France as an example. They have a multi party system with two main rounds of voting. During the first round, people vote for whoever they want, regardless of party. The top two vote getters advance to the second round of voting. Because the votes are spread across so many candidates, the two who advance often have very low overall support. Sometimes, during the first round, the left will spread their votes between the far left, left, and center left candidates. The right, on the other hand, is often better at concentrating their votes, so the top two overall vote getters might be the right and far right candidates, even though the majority of the electorate is left of center. This puts the left in an uncomfortable position we in America are all too familiar with. The position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils. So far, when the far right candidate has been too extreme, the left in France has been willing to hold their noses and vote for a right wing candidate in order to stop an even further right wing candidate. We all know that the left in America, with its purity tests and aversion to strategic voting, can not be relied on to do the same. We seem to take it as an article of faith that things would be better with a multi party system, but that's not necessarily true.

I keep hearing it said that choosing the lesser of two evils is illogical. I simply can not disagree more. Choosing the lesser of two evils is inherently logical. How could it be otherwise? We all do it every single day. For example, the other day I forgot to bring my lunch to work. I was faced with a choice between buying lunch from the cafeteria, which is over priced and general lousy, or skipping lunch and eating when I got home. Neither choice was ideal. Both choices contained significant negatives. So, I picked the one I thought was the least bad. A person who can't master the skill of choosing the least bad of several bad options, is a person who will be constantly confounded by life.

I voted for Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the general. I dislike Clinton, yet I voted for her without the slightest trace of guilt. Why? Because I decided that while Clinton would likely do harm, Trump would likely do more harm, so in the absence of a viable option for wellness increase, I chose harm reduction. In other words, I voted strategically.

There is no excuse for not voting.

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Re: voter turnout

#34 Post by CDFingers » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:21 pm

And in California I could vote Sanders in the primary and Green in the General, as we all knew the D would take the state. Another state would have had different strategies.

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See how it feels in the end.

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Re: voter turnout

#35 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:33 pm

Greengunner wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:13 pm
A few points I'd like to make here. My wife grew up in France, so I'll use France as an example. They have a multi party system with two main rounds of voting. During the first round, people vote for whoever they want, regardless of party. The top two vote getters advance to the second round of voting. Because the votes are spread across so many candidates, the two who advance often have very low overall support. Sometimes, during the first round, the left will spread their votes between the far left, left, and center left candidates. The right, on the other hand, is often better at concentrating their votes, so the top two overall vote getters might be the right and far right candidates, even though the majority of the electorate is left of center. This puts the left in an uncomfortable position we in America are all too familiar with. The position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils. So far, when the far right candidate has been too extreme, the left in France has been willing to hold their noses and vote for a right wing candidate in order to stop an even further right wing candidate. We all know that the left in America, with its purity tests and aversion to strategic voting, can not be relied on to do the same. We seem to take it as an article of faith that things would be better with a multi party system, but that's not necessarily true.

I keep hearing it said that choosing the lesser of two evils is illogical. I simply can not disagree more. Choosing the lesser of two evils is inherently logical. How could it be otherwise? We all do it every single day. For example, the other day I forgot to bring my lunch to work. I was faced with a choice between buying lunch from the cafeteria, which is over priced and general lousy, or skipping lunch and eating when I got home. Neither choice was ideal. Both choices contained significant negatives. So, I picked the one I thought was the least bad. A person who can't master the skill of choosing the least bad of several bad options, is a person who will be constantly confounded by life.

I voted for Sanders in the primary and Clinton in the general. I dislike Clinton, yet I voted for her without the slightest trace of guilt. Why? Because I decided that while Clinton would likely do harm, Trump would likely do more harm, so in the absence of a viable option for wellness increase, I chose harm reduction. In other words, I voted strategically.

There is no excuse for not voting.
There are many versions of the following poem, the sense of which applies, IMHO, to those who refuse to pick the lesser of two evils:
'Here lies the body of William Jay
Who died maintaining his right of way -
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
Either way, we ended up with this catastrophe.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: voter turnout

#36 Post by VodoundaVinci » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:46 pm

The only thing I'm taking away from this discussion is how truly screwed and fragmented America has become. I guess I'll have to be counted out as one who is just shaking his head and watching all of this in disbelief.

Good luck to you guys in getting some of what you want from Democrats. I count myself as being alienated by pretty much all things Political. So, I'll just sit down, shut up, and watch the smoke.

VooDoo

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Re: voter turnout

#37 Post by eelj » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:23 pm

I was hoping that this thread would be about how to inspire voter turnout.

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Re: voter turnout

#38 Post by featureless » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:28 pm

Maybe better candidates would help?

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Re: voter turnout

#39 Post by VodoundaVinci » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:30 pm

Don't mind me.....I'm just completely bewildered. It's all so far beyond my intelligence and ability to sort it out I'm just gonna sit down and shut up.

VooDoo

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