On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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When George W. Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, its population was around 25-30 million. His coalition of the willing was a disaster. 15 years later Iraq is a disaster. Why does Donny Drumpf think his lovely war in Iran will be anything different?

A 2017 estimate of Iran's population is 81 million. Its area is 1,648,195 sq km. Iran won't be a pushover like Iraq was before turning into a disaster. It will be a disaster from the get go.

The other nations in the nuclear agreement won't go along with Donny. Bibi Netanyahu will go along with Donny but he isn't part of the JCPOA. So Donny wants the other nations in the JCPOA to follow him down the garden path while he scraps the JCPOA and encourages Bibi to attack Iran.

So the way I see it peace is the baby and the JCPOA is the bathwater. Scrap the JCPOA and peace goes down the drain with it.
Boris Johnson: Don’t Scuttle the Iran Nuclear Deal

I believe that keeping the deal’s constraints on Iran’s nuclear program will also help counter Tehran’s aggressive regional behavior. I am sure of one thing: every available alternative is worse. The wisest course would be to improve the handcuffs rather than break them.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/06/opin ... -deal.html?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Com ... _of_Action

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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Obama did it, therefore Trump must undo it.
It's simple. He's a sick, sick mind.
Even Boris Johnson, Trump's British Twin-by-another-mother, in both hair and thinking, says dumping the deal is a dreadful, catastrophic mistake, and needs to be built on, not discarded.
But Trump won't listen. To him, it's like he's castrating Obama, in public, to hurt and humiliate him. The only thing that keeps Trump from doing it for real is, Mr. "Tough Guy" faints at the sight of blood.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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harriss wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 11:52 am CNN reports that the price of crude oil on the spot market has dropped. They have also reported a poll that 63% of Americans want the US to stay in the JCPOA.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/08/politics ... index.html
http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/i ... l?adkey=bn
Of course. Anyone with a brain, or even half a brain knows this is the move of an over-bearing egotistical functional idiot, more hung up on gestures than real policies.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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The Turnip did it.
President Trump on Tuesday announced the decision to "withdraw" from the Iran nuclear deal.

That means the U.S. will not renew sanctions waiver and will no longer participate in the Iran nuclear deal, CBS News' Ed O'Keefe and Rebecca Kaplan have reported. The sanctions the U.S. waived because of the accord will be reinstated.

According to a congressional aide, O'Keefe reports, there will be 90- and 180-day wind-downs on various aspects of what is known as the JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, a landmark deal forged in 2015.

U.S. intelligence has verified that the deal has been an effective arms control deal that has kept Iran's nuclear program frozen for three years, CBS News' Margaret Brennan has noted. Mr. Trump is delivering on another campaign promise, says Brennan, but one which is arguably far more consequential than any other deal he's torn up.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/trump ... m-updates/

It is more important to screw with Obama’s legacy than maintaining peaceful relationships in the world.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 2:36 pm The Turnip did it.
President Trump on Tuesday announced the decision to "withdraw" from the Iran nuclear deal.

That means the U.S. will not renew sanctions waiver and will no longer participate in the Iran nuclear deal, CBS News' Ed O'Keefe and Rebecca Kaplan have reported. The sanctions the U.S. waived because of the accord will be reinstated.

According to a congressional aide, O'Keefe reports, there will be 90- and 180-day wind-downs on various aspects of what is known as the JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, a landmark deal forged in 2015.

U.S. intelligence has verified that the deal has been an effective arms control deal that has kept Iran's nuclear program frozen for three years, CBS News' Margaret Brennan has noted. Mr. Trump is delivering on another campaign promise, says Brennan, but one which is arguably far more consequential than any other deal he's torn up.
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/trump ... m-updates/

It is more important to screw with Obama’s legacy than maintaining peaceful relationships in the world.
It's up to the other permanent members of the UN Security Council and the European Union. Donny Drumpf has succeeded in isolating the US from the rest of the world.

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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In the pull out statement Turnip mentioned Netanyahu’s statement. That is like using the Bush WMD reasons for the Iraq war. Both based of falsehoods of current conditions.
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump announced on Tuesday the United States will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.

The U.S. will not extend waivers on sanctions targeting Iran’s nuclear program, effectively ending its compliance with the 2015 international agreement under which Iran accepted restrictions on its nuclear program in exchange for economic relief.

“I am announcing today that the U.S. will withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal,” Trump said at the White House. “We will be instituting the highest level of economic sanctions.”

Trump accused the deal ― officially called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) ― of being poorly negotiated and lacking enforcement mechanisms. He said it allows Iran to develop a nuclear weapon in a short time, but offered no evidence to back these assertions. Trump also cited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s April 30 presentation on Iran’s nuclear program, which alleged that Iran lied about its past nuclear activities before negotiating the nuclear deal.

“At the heart of the Iran deal was a giant fiction: that a murderous regime desired only a peaceful nuclear energy program. Today, we have definitive proof that this Iranian promise was a lie,” Trump said.

Nuclear experts and European officials criticized Netanyahu’s speech for pandering to Trump and offering essentially no new information on Iran’s nuclear activities. Much of Netanyahu’s presentation centered on information that was publicly available in a 2007 declassified intelligence report, and Netanyahu did not state that Iran was in current violation of the deal.

European officials, who pushed for Trump to uphold the deal, condemned the president’s decision to pull out. French President Emmanuel Macron tweeted shortly after Trump’s speech that France, Germany and the United Kingdom regret the U.S. decision and that “we will work collectively on a broader framework.” The European Union’s top diplomat Federica Mogherini said that the deal was working and fulfilling its promise.

Former President Barack Obama, who touted the Iran deal as one of his chief foreign policy accomplishments, put out a statement criticizing Trump’s decision to undo the agreement.

“Walking away from the JCPOA turns our back on America’s closest allies, and an agreement that our country’s leading diplomats, scientists, and intelligence professionals negotiated,” Obama said.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tr ... f193226f92

What’s next Turnip to appoint someone to head the CIA that likes the Bush Torture memo from John Yoo? Oops already done.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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The Washington Post reported today that the Iranian President Rouhani has directed his diplomats to negotiate directly with Russia, China, and the European Union about salvaging the deal.
ISTANBUL — Iranian Pres. Hassan Rouhani said he has directed his diplomats to negotiate with European countries, Russia and China about remaining in the nuclear deal despite the U.S. withdrawal from the agreement.

But Rouhani said Iran is ready to start unlimited uranium enrichment if these negotiations do not yield benefits in a couple of weeks.

Iranian officials struck a defiant tone Tuesday as President Trump withdrew the United States from a landmark nuclear deal with Tehran, a move that reimposes harsh economic sanctions and could prompt Iran to restart suspended nuclear activities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mi ... 5b5940f20b

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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Mustang wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 am
featureless wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 3:18 pm Fuck, said Pooh.

Looks like US treaties are worth less than the paper they are printed on.
This wasn't a "treaty". It was never submitted to the Senate, let alone approved by it.
Yes. That's correct. Ratified treaties have the force of Constitutional Law, by definition (it's in the Constitution).
But we have and have had, many agreements, policies and doctrines throughout our history that weren't ratified treaties. Presidents, like it or not, honor those of their predecessors. Barack Obama KNEW that the Iraq War was a colossal and tragic error. But the USA, under George W. Bush, had given its word, and Obama knew, that for the good of our nation, and our word in the world, we were stuck with it. When he pulled out, it was in total compliance with our agreement with Iraq, and at their request.

Trump has broken that tradition, and, in the international world, your nation's word is your bond. A man with 6 bankruptcies, who has cheated repeatedly on every wife he's had, who has cheated thousands out of fees, invoices, and lawful pay, had not a scintilla of understanding of what a nation's word means.

This deal took almost 10 years to come to fruition. How can we expect a guy who's exhausted his reading for the day by what flashes across Fox screen to have a CLUE about the Iran agreement? And it's clear that his "art" of dealing is bullying and flattery, and trying to scare the shit out of the other guy.

We're in deep-shit trouble.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 7:26 am
Mustang wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 am
featureless wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 3:18 pm Fuck, said Pooh.

Looks like US treaties are worth less than the paper they are printed on.
This wasn't a "treaty". It was never submitted to the Senate, let alone approved by it.
Yes. That's correct. Ratified treaties have the force of Constitutional Law, by definition (it's in the Constitution).
But we have and have had, many agreements, policies and doctrines throughout our history that weren't ratified treaties. Presidents, like it or not, honor those of their predecessors. Barack Obama KNEW that the Iraq War was a colossal and tragic error. But the USA, under George W. Bush, had given its word, and Obama knew, that for the good of our nation, and our word in the world, we were stuck with it. When he pulled out, it was in total compliance with our agreement with Iraq, and at their request.

Trump has broken that tradition, and, in the international world, your nation's word is your bond. A man with 6 bankruptcies, who has cheated repeatedly on every wife he's had, who has cheated thousands out of fees, invoices, and lawful pay, had not a scintilla of understanding of what a nation's word means.

This deal took almost 10 years to come to fruition. How can we expect a guy who's exhausted his reading for the day by what flashes across Fox screen to have a CLUE about the Iran agreement? And it's clear that his "art" of dealing is bullying and flattery, and trying to scare the shit out of the other guy.

We're in deep-shit trouble.
This.
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

www.schayden.com

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 4:02 pmWhat’s next Turnip to appoint someone to head the CIA that likes the Bush Torture memo from John Yoo? Oops already done.
So now we'll have another war with our European allies, first it was about tariffs and now Iran. If the US tries to sanction EU companies for trading with Iran, then the EU will sanction US companies. When you think the clown in the WH couldn't get any worse.

The newspapers are reporting that Trump's CIA nominee Gina Haspel has pledged, probably in private meetings with senators that she won't re-introduce torture. That is little reassurance if the clown in the WH wants it, sure she could resign but like W and Cheney the WH can always over rule Langley. Most of Haspel's CIA career has been on the covert side of the CIA, we probably won't get a lot of answers in the public hearings.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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They news has already been saying, forget about any real information from the hearings. It’s all highly classified and the administration is just saying trust us on this.

She says no re-introducing torture. But how do we know it really ever stopped? Some of the countries we had black sites in have no qualms about using torture. Do we know if all the rendition black sites have been shutdown.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: On Iran, Donny Determined To Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater

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TrueTexan wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 12:58 pm They news has already been saying, forget about any real information from the hearings. It’s all highly classified and the administration is just saying trust us on this.

She says no re-introducing torture. But how do we know it really ever stopped? Some of the countries we had black sites in have no qualms about using torture. Do we know if all the rendition black sites have been shutdown.
we'll never ever know it if truly stopped or not, there will always be some money unaccounted for and the opportunity for onsite torture. In my opinion it's absolutely impossible for the average joe to trust for certain that this was entirely shut down.

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