Re: Dow drops a thou

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geno wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:31 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:25 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:03 pm 2 days ago it closed down 30 points, yesterday 300 points, today, 1861 points--2,200 points in 3 closes.
That may be just the start
And its not even the country's most pressing problem.
But to hear Trump’s wealthy backers and Wall Street it is the worse that could happen.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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When the stock market climbed to record highs during the lockdown and while the BLM protests and some riots were happening I thought, “Well that’s it, there is no more reason for pretense that the stock market has anything to do with the American economy”.

And of course it would fall. Today is just plain stupendous.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Stupendous ??? I'd call it breath taking. I'm back where I was a month ago - down 55% - had gained about 50% back. I had to fight myself constantly not to buy stocks while down for fear the other shoe would drop and it appears it may be dropping heavily. CV-19 is rampantly climbing in Texas.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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Everything's upside down. The 200 day moving average is above the 100 day, and that's above the 50 day. That's like watching a barometer drop below 1000--you KNOW a monster storm is coming!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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All three major stock indexes opened sharply higher on Friday, after recording their worst day since March 16, the height of the coronavirus selloff, on Thursday. For the Nasdaq, the drastic collapse came after three straight days of all-time closing highs. The Dow (INDU) opened 2.7%, or 670 points, higher. The S&P 500 (SPX) rose 2.5% and the Nasdaq Composite (COMP) climbed 2.4% higher.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/investin ... index.html

The stock market is bi-polar.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote:
All three major stock indexes opened sharply higher on Friday, after recording their worst day since March 16, the height of the coronavirus selloff, on Thursday. For the Nasdaq, the drastic collapse came after three straight days of all-time closing highs. The Dow (INDU) opened 2.7%, or 670 points, higher. The S&P 500 (SPX) rose 2.5% and the Nasdaq Composite (COMP) climbed 2.4% higher.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/investin ... index.html

The stock market is bi-polar.
Because outside of commodities pricing, the stock market is mostly untethered from the actual economy.

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What we could see is the ripple effect causing the economic collapse, starting with housing.
Fears grow of an eviction apocalypse

Most states paused evictions when the coronavirus hit — but those holds are expiring at about the same time that more generous unemployment benefits are set to dry up.

Why it matters: The one-two punch could easily exacerbate the housing crisis for Americans already bearing the worst of COVID-19's effects.

One fifth of adults polled in May said they had slight or no confidence they would be able to pay their rent or mortgage due in June, according to a weekly Census survey measuring COVID-19’s impact on Americans.
An Urban Institute analysis of Census data found nearly 25% of black renters deferred or did not pay their rent last month, compared with 14% of white renters.
In Michigan, courts are bracing for "a coming deluge" of as many as 75,000 landlord/tenant filings. (The state's moratorium expired this week.)
The big picture: The pandemic — which forced an economic collapse — is adding new burdens on top of the country's longstanding housing problems.

"There was a supply and affordability problem before, and the opportunity for it to get a lot worse presents itself, unless there's really good support coming from the federal, state and local level," Paula Cino of the National Multifamily Housing Council, a trade group for the apartment industry, tells Axios.
What they're saying: The result could be even higher rates of homelessness — leaving more people out on the streets in the midst of a global pandemic.

"Prior to the pandemic, our homeless shelter system in the U.S. was stretched thin, and also not set up for social distancing," Alieza Durana, a policy analyst at Princeton University's Eviction Lab, which is tracking states' measures, tells Axios.
"The run-of-the-mill devastation that normally occurs in the wake of an eviction is further amplified by the conditions of this pandemic and economic crisis itself."
Catch up quick: As with other measures that were passed in haste when the pandemic hit, cities and states enacted a patchwork of eviction halts with varying lengths and caveats.

Moratoria in places like Texas have lapsed.
Others are set to expire in coming days and weeks, including Louisiana and Pennsylvania, while New York State and other places have announced extensions.
At the federal level, the coronavirus stimulus package barred federally subsidized housing from evicting residents until July 25.
Between the lines: An eviction moratorium is not a rent freeze — which means that overdue rent is still accumulating for tenants who have been unable to pay it. Once a moratorium expires and landlords can get court approval to take or resume eviction action, residents could be months in the hole.

Even more troubling: Some of the expirations collide with the stoppage of more generous unemployment benefits that have helped keep unemployed Americans afloat.
Congress is still debating whether to extend enhanced unemployment benefits beyond July 31.
What to watch: It's possible that property managers or mom-and-pop landlords will negotiate with tenants before evicting them. But landlords themselves are likely feeling the pinch: Some states have also put halts on property foreclosures, and those pauses are about to end.

The cost of evicting an existing tenant may not be worth it, particularly if there is little demand from new renters to sign a lease.
The same is true for commercial landlords, although some have already said they are taking nonpaying retail tenants (such as Gap Inc.) to court.
Driving the news: San Francisco essentially made its moratorium permanent this week — prohibiting landlords from ever using missed rent for pandemic-related reasons as grounds for eviction, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.

"The City has a shortage of affordable rental housing, and a significant percentage of its households are renters and at risk of permanent displacement should they be forced to leave their current homes," officials wrote in the legislation.
The bottom line: There's the potential for a domino effect that would harm both tenants and property owners.

Landlords need rental income to pay their bills, taxes and mortgages.
Municipalities need tax income to pay workers and fund essential services.
https://www.axios.com/eviction-crisis-c ... 3af14.html

Add in the banking and FED stupidity.
Millions of Americans suffered long-term financial pain because of the Great Recession and the crash of September 2008. Now, the coronavirus pandemic is inflicting additional pain on millions of Americans, and UC Berkeley law professor Frank Partnoy — in a sobering article for The Atlantic’s July/August 2020 issue — warns that another banking crisis is a strong possibility.

“After months of living with the coronavirus pandemic,” the 53-year-old Partnoy explains, “American citizens are well aware of the toll it has taken on the economy: broken supply chains, record unemployment, failing small businesses. All of these factors are serious and could mire the United States in a deep, prolonged recession. But there’s another threat to the economy too. It lurks on the balance sheets of the big banks, and it could be cataclysmic. Imagine if, in addition to all the uncertainty surrounding the pandemic, you woke up one morning to find that the financial sector had collapsed.”

Partnoy goes on to explain why he fears that possibility. Banks, according to Partnoy “learned few lessons from” the “calamity” of the “2008 crash” — and “new laws intended to keep them from taking on too much risk have failed to do so. As a result, we could be on the precipice of another crash, one different from 2008 less in kind than in degree. This one could be worse.”

In 2010, Partnoy notes, Congress passed the Dodd-Frank Act “to prevent the next crisis.” But one financial instrument that, according to Partnoy, has become problematic is what is known as a CLO or “collateralized loan obligation” — not to be confused with a CDO or collateralized debt obligation.

“After the housing crisis,” Partnoy notes, “subprime CDOs naturally fell out of favor. Demand shifted to a similar — and similarly risky — instrument, one that even has a similar name: the CLO or collateralized loan obligation. A CLO walks and talks like a CDO, but in place of loans made to home buyers are loans made to businesses — specifically, troubled businesses. CLOs bundle together so-called leveraged loans, the subprime mortgages of the corporate world. These are loans made to companies that have maxed out their borrowing and can no longer sell bonds directly to investors or qualify for a traditional bank loan.”

Partnoy observes that CLOs have been “praised by Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin for moving the risk of leveraged loans outside the banking system.” But according to Partnoy, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t risky.

Partnoy wraps up his Atlantic article on a troubling note, warning that the financial problems resulting from the coronavirus pandemic could become even worse if large banks are allowed to take dangerous risks.

“If we do manage to make it through the next year without waking up to a collapse, we must find ways to prevent the big banks from going all in on bets they can’t afford to lose,” Partnoy explains. “Their luck — and ours —will at some point run out.”
https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/bankin ... economist/

All this will definitely affect the Stock Market, the question remains how soon?
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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Not to worry. They just changed to rules so that the Fed can buy all those junk bonds, stocks, mortgages...why I doubt any bank presidents will even miss a nights sleep.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

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The stock market is primarily a financial instruments masturbation party at this point. All the tax cuts and coronavirus relief funds have poured so much liquid assets into corporate America (much of it turned into investment capital now) so that those playing the market are pretty much divorced from the consequences that average Americans must bear now. Yes, they are still playing with the same currency we use but it is no longer a game constrained by the economy at large. Therefore it really shouldn’t be reported on as if it reflects anything about America any more than what happens in Vegas reflects anything about Americans.

However, we taxpayers are being played every time the government decides to use taxes to bail out investment banks and other irresponsible organizations deemed “too big to fail”. It’s like the workers and taxpayers are being used like livestock, are treated as and rather behave like abused animals who don’t bite back.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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I have been swing trading and occasionally day trading the stock market with a little success here and there. The market doesn’t reflect the current economy, it reflects the collective investors’ expectation of the economy in the near future.

Today all the known negative possibilities have been priced into the market. If the market is going up, it doesn’t mean that investors are not savvy about the bleak outlook of the economy, it means that the risk has been calculated into their pricing decision, and that the latest crystal ball shows a nice picture.

There is a huge incentive to buy stocks while they’re cheap, because you stand to make good money when things recover. In turn all the buying pushes the prices up, lifting the market along.
Glad that federal government is boring again.

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There will be a lot of ways to look at today. I mean, the neo lib juggernaut lets the Fed buy corporate bonds. Then the neo lib juggernaut allows the most predatory industry to invest workers' pensions.

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/06/trump-ju ... pals-dream

Then, the same juggernaut allows the orange stain to suggest one Trillion dollars for infrastructure projects in states needed to be won by the stain in November.

So, we see a yuuge opening. Dang. It's an upside down pyramid that is pretty unstable from where I stand...with my popcorn and 1911.

on edit, for kicks and giggles let's throw in a fatal border clash between China and India as the US sends three carrier groups to WesPac.

aaand another edit.
Stephen Roach, one of the world’s leading authorities on Asia, is worried a changing global landscape paired with a massive U.S. budget deficit will spark a dollar crash.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/15/dollar- ... warns.html

Seat belts.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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Well Stiff, all of that sounds good on paper but what has the financialization of everything done for the folks who contribute to and are effected by the economy. It was once a nice fairytale that Wall St provided he capital for companies to produce products in order to sell to consumers. Now it is all a numbers game where moving multi-million $s from one place to another for a .01% gain in short term profits. All money strictly for the sake of making money with no human significance whatsoever. Just generating more currency.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Bisbee wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:08 am Well Stiff, all of that sounds good on paper but what has the financialization of everything done for the folks who contribute to and are effected by the economy. It was once a nice fairytale that Wall St provided he capital for companies to produce products in order to sell to consumers. Now it is all a numbers game where moving multi-million $s from one place to another for a .01% gain in short term profits. All money strictly for the sake of making money with no human significance whatsoever. Just generating more currency.
Generating more currency will get you what? Well by history and the teaching of Keynesian economics this will lead to inflation. The currency increase is suppose to increase jobs and wages for working people. But in the case today it just goes into the pockets of the corporate executives as a bonus and to the Wall Street Robber Bankers.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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Mason wrote: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:28 pm watching my 401K fluctuate thousands of dollars from day to day has become a sort of morbid pastime these last couple of months.
I have developed a habit of not reviewing my portfolio when the DOW is down. I haven't looked since the beginning of the pandemic.

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It's quite ironic. Now that I've got a few greenbacks piled up, they're not worth as much as they were when I began piling. In fact, since we went off the gold standard just as I graduated high school, each dollar I earned was worth less than the one I earned the month before. Relentlessly those dollars have dribbled value out some hole in their back pocket--that trickled right into the pockets of the 1%. But they don't stash dollars. They stash real estate and stock ownership, the latter of which no longer guarantees excellent returns from prudent investments. That leaves real estate, home of the grift. Something worth ten bucks can be sold the next day for twenty cash as long as you don't ask where the cash came from.

Since March, investors have been favoring the greenback over its peers in the Group of 10 countries, in part due to “emergency dollar demand” as the world went into a synchronized shutdown to stem the spread of the coronavirus outbreak, Goel said. Investors typically flock to the U.S. dollar in times of uncertainty, in part due to its position as the world’s reserve currency.

“That emergency dollar demand seems to be waning,” he said.

Furthermore, “the exit strategy for the U.S., if anything, looks poorer than it is for the rest of the world,” he said referring to the lifting of lockdown measures and reopening of the economy. “Our mobility tracker suggests that, bulk of Europe, for example, is opening up faster than (the) U.S. is.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/usds-de ... -says.html

and
Because for all of Donald Trump’s bluster, this was the one thing he really, truly had to do. It’s the one thing the Republican Party’s big donors insist on. They don’t care about immigration or tariffs. Not much, anyway. But they care about lower taxes. As then-New York Rep. Chris Collins (since convicted of insider trading) told reporters shortly before the tax cut was signed into law, donors were telling him, “Get it done or don’t ever call me again.” So they got it done.

The 2017 tax cut had to be supported by a farrago of dishonesty for an obvious reason: The public would never support a tax cut aimed primarily at making the rich richer and swelling the coffers of large corporations—which also benefited the rich. Why would they? So Republicans had to lie. And this time they couldn’t rest with a single lie. Polls showed that voters were skeptical of their tax cut, so this time Repub­licans had to pile lie on top of lie.

Why does this matter? For two reasons—one, lies about tax cuts have determined the course of America’s economy, and the individual fortunes of millions of families including yours, for decades. Many of the inequities laid bare by the pandemic have been in the making since the Reagan era. And two, amid the coronavirus crisis, we’re about to have another debate over whether tax cuts can juice the economy. To evaluate those claims, it behooves us to look at what Republicans said about their 2017 tax cut—compared to what actually happened. Spoiler alert: Every single economic indicator Republicans said would go up, didn’t.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... even-more/

Trouble is, both neo liberals and neo conservatives love them some tax cuts. And they're running against each other.

Is there a more fun way to watch the homeless starve, the ones living behind the dumpster?

Well, light the dumpster on fire. That's what he's doing.

July 1 evictions loom.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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The International Monetary Fund (IMF) recognizes eight world reserve currencies: U.S. dollar, [EU] euro, Chinese renminbi (yuan), Japanese yen, British pound, Australian dollar, Canadian dollar and Swiss franc. Of these, USD is by far the most widely used in global FX [foreign exchange] reserves. Nearly 60 percent of the world’s FX reserves are denominated in dollars. In the second quarter of 2019, the total dollar value of global FX reserves stood at $11.7 trillion, of which $6.8 trillion were in dollars or dollar-denominated assets. For this reason, the dollar is often referred to simply as the world reserve currency.
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/fore ... -currency/

Since the 1970s when Nixon took us off the gold standard there has been talk that the dollar would be replaced as the world's main currency, but it's still there. The world economy took a tumble, worker and consumer confidence needs rebuilding.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Image


https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/econ ... vPy6UP4byE

Couple of bullshit stuff happening. While this orange skivvie stain whines about attendance and reduces governmental attention upon the virus, many families are quietly drowning. .gov aid will disappear really quickly unless Pelosi makes a new bill or shoves the Three Trillion dollar package down their throats.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/wa ... e-slowdown

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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