Dow drops a thou

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by kronkmusic »

lurker wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:41 pm
what a F'ing moron. this last 3 years has to have been a bad movie. no one would believe a fraud con-man carnival barker could be elected POTUS. "SEE THE TWO-HEADED WOMAN!" surely the american people would never fall for something so stupid. not possible.
If you went back even 5 years and tried to write a movie script about this, you'd get turned down by every movie studio in Hollywood because the premise was too unbelievable.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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kronkmusic wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:30 pm
Hooray for soshulism!

Seriously though, this is a good sign that somebody with some grounding in reality is getting through to Trump and his administration.
+1

I can make do for a while but I know a lot of people that can't. Help needs to come quickly for them.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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my brokerage house has started sending me soothing e-mails. they never actually say "don't panic". i understand about 1/10th of it. i replied because i want them to think i'm paying attention.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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featureless wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:56 pm
kronkmusic wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:30 pm
Hooray for soshulism!

Seriously though, this is a good sign that somebody with some grounding in reality is getting through to Trump and his administration.
+1

I can make do for a while but I know a lot of people that can't. Help needs to come quickly for them.
Yes like sick leave, it would help workers directly. He still wants the payroll tax holiday for all businesses which doesn't help and cuts funding for Social Security. And bailouts for airlines which one reporter note that airlines used the huge Trump tax cut to buy back their own stock.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by Wino »

Looking forward to my stimulus check from my rich uncle Sam. :sarcasm: I'd prefer a larger check to cover my 55% portfolio value drop - I'd even promise to give it back if it recovers. FDT/ABT

This is gonna be far worse than 2009 I suspect. Not comforting that we have a dotard at the controls with a long history of failures to his credit.

I filed 2019 taxes on line March 1 and had my refund in bank on March 9. Left half there for first quarter SE estimated tax payment. February 2020 SS check on March 11 - I guess as long as checks don't bounce, we're okay. :w00t:
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Trump and minions long game steal as much as they can, then bankrupt the government and walk away. They have done this how many times?

Also Jared is trying to cash in on COVID-19 Testing.

https://www.salon.com/2020/03/18/how-ja ... 9_partner/
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Oil Prices take a plunge as Saudi boost exports. This morning West Texas Intermediate Crude is down $2.51 at $24.82.

https://oilprice.com

Normally I would rejoice at a drop in oil prices as that means cheaper fuel. But now that means the oil Boom/Bust cycle is hitting on top of the Coronavirus and more jobs cut.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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The Saudis can still make money at $20 a barrel.

Turns out trump is so full of shit that the country ran out of toilet paper.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Yup, this is a stimulus that the GOP loves, bail out businesses and play Santa Claus to win in November.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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DOW down again today and dropping more since Trump's press conference started. It will likely settle below 20,000 today for the first time since Trump was inaugurated, like I predicted. Sometimes I hate being right.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Stocks falling so fast during Trump's presser that it flipped the breakers again.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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kronkmusic wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:42 pm
DOW down again today and dropping more since Trump's press conference started. It will likely settle below 20,000 today for the first time since Trump was inaugurated, like I predicted. Sometimes I hate being right.
I think Donnie is bucking for the title of "The Bear Market Slayer" by pumping a record amount of money into US businesses. Of course voters in November could tell him thanks for the check, but F You.

LA Times article on how this is affecting Hollywood.
As film crews have quickly shut down in an effort to slow the spread of the coronavirus, a domino effect has befallen Hollywood’s working class. A range of people from actors to lighting directors, drivers and grips to administrators, painters, hair stylists and caterers, now suddenly find themselves out of work.

A raft of dramas, sitcoms and talk shows from “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” to ABC’s long-running medical drama “Grey’s Anatomy” and Apple TV+'s “The Morning Show” have canceled or suspended production in L.A. as officials have imposed new restrictions on film crew sizes.
The abrupt work stoppage is all the more jarring because it comes at a time of unparalleled growth in the industry, when more content is being produced than ever and when demand for soundstages barely one month ago had created a space crunch. Now, with Hollywood on hold, so too are the livelihoods of tens of thousands of workers.

The anxiety around this shutdown and its suddenness is made all the more difficult because many of these entertainment workers are day players, working paycheck to paycheck, making an already financially insecure situation even more precarious.
Los Angeles has long been referred to as the entertainment capital of the world. The industry’s tentacles have broad reach. The industry employed 220,860 payroll workers in the L.A. region in 2016, up nearly 20% from a decade earlier, according to a 2018 report by the Los Angeles Economic Development Corporation and other groups.

“At least 50% of those jobs will be affected one way or another,” said Kevin Klowden, executive director of the the Milken Institute’s Center for Regional Economics. “The longer this goes on, that number moves closer to 100%.

“The real issue comes down to if production companies can’t absorb the cost of the delay because they don’t have insurance, in which case a production is canceled entirely, but we don’t know that yet.”
What’s more, during the writers’ strike, many workers were able to supplement their incomes with secondary jobs for a time working in restaurants, bars and the unions could draw on strike reserves. With more measures being taken by the government to close all but essential businesses, even those avenues have been cut off.

The pain is not being felt just in Southern California.
“We were telling our members to save in January not for a pandemic but for a potential strike in the industry this season,” said Steve Dayan, secretary-treasurer of Hollywood Local 399 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, whose 5,000 members include studio drivers, casting directors, location managers and animal handlers.

Dayan said the union is exploring ways to help members who may be short on accumulating the necessary hours to preserve their health and pension benefits.

“We are just trying to make sure that our members know what to do to remain safe and to follow whatever instruction the employers are giving them and to contact us with any questions or concerns.”

SAG-AFTRA, which has more than 160,000 members, also is looking to help those experiencing hardships.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-a ... of-workers
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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by YankeeTarheel »

Dow has broken through the next support point, where it was at when Trump was inaugurated. 50 DMA is well below 100 DMA and if goes below the 200 DMA we are well and truly screwed.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by TrueTexan »

TrueTexan wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:41 am
Oil Prices take a plunge as Saudi boost exports. This morning West Texas Intermediate Crude is down $2.51 at $24.82.

https://oilprice.com

Normally I would rejoice at a drop in oil prices as that means cheaper fuel. But now that means the oil Boom/Bust cycle is hitting on top of the Coronavirus and more jobs cut.
It is now down to $21.15 a barrel.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Bet dimes to donuts it stops @ $20.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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I topped mine off this morning, just in case. Still $3.09 pg here.

Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer talked about what Senate Democrats want in the next phase of economic stimulus relief today.

The New York lawmaker said “Democrats are proposing a Marshall Plan for our public health infrastructure. The sooner we act on it the better."

“We must make sure that we prioritize public health and workers over corporate bailouts,” Schumer said.

On the Republican proposals for direct cash payments to Americans, Schumer said, “This is not a time for small thinking. This is not a time for small measures. This is a time to be bold, to be aggressive …. $1,000 goes by pretty quickly if you’re unemployed. In contrast, expanded unemployment insurance, beefed up unemployment insurance covers you for a much longer time and would provide a much bigger safety net.”

Schumer added: “If we’re going to provide direct payments, they need to be bigger, more frequent, more targeted. Millionaires shouldn’t get them."
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/cor ... -intl-hnk/
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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$2.79 was the magic number here for both of our two Priuses (sp?) and B-20 in my diesel; but that was a while back, as two of the three can easily go a month between fill-ups.
"its a goddamn impossible way of life"

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Filled up yesterday at Costco for $1.59
When the wife and I both had a Prius, we wondered what is the plural? Is it Priuses or Priui? We don't have a Prius any more. We do have two RAV4 Hybrids. So does two RAV4 Hybrids equal a RAV8 Hybrid?
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Futures down big again tonight, as well as Asia. I expect Euro stocks to start falling when those markets open in a few hours, despite and possibly partially because of the stimulus package announced by the European Central Bank.

There's been a lot of talk the last couple of days about bailouts and stock buybacks, so earlier when I couldn't post I wrote up an easily understandable explanation of what happened and is happening in those regards:
A corporation buys stock up from the market, which decreases the number of shares publicly available which in turn drives up share price, which is profitable for the majority shareholders who sit on the boards of these companies and who push for these business practices. The problem is, when the stock goes down in value, not only would the company then be taking a massive loss on that stock investment when selling it, the very act of doing so causes the value of the stock to decrease further as more shares are released back into the public trading market. It's part simple supply and demand. What this does is leave the company and it's majority shareholder decision-makers in a tight spot where they don't have enough cash on hand to cover operating expenses, having spent it all to buy back stock, but selling stock to get that liquid cash would be very damaging to the value of the company over an even longer term. Compounding the problem is the fact that so many of these companies then went on to borrow even more money at our artificially low interest rates to buy back more stock to further drive up the stock price. So when the bottom falls out, not only are they broke, but they're in massive debt that they can't possibly repay by selling the thing they went into debt to buy in the first place. And it's not only the airlines, this is happening across nearly all sectors of the market.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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So that's why interest rate cuts and liquidity injections and quantitative easing and even economic stimulus will not stop this. We are currently winessing the deaths of multinational industry giants through their own greed and mismanagement. Investors the world over once criticized companies like Apple and Berkshire Hathaway for holding on to large amounts of cash, and now they look like the geniuses in the room as they have the money to hold through nearly any recession, while companies like Boeing went on a 3 year coke binge of false value and now they're broke, can't afford to become un-broke, and are left begging Daddy Government (read: taxpayers) to bail them out.

So then that leaves us with the big questions: do they deserve to fail? And would it be okay if we let them? At what point do we stop enabling and rewarding bad behavior? Because right now their the rich kid with "afluenza" who fucked up, took a bunch of drugs, and crashed their dad's sports car killing a bunch of innocent people. What does that say about us if we bail them out?
Last edited by kronkmusic on Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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kronkmusic wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:46 pm
Futures down big again tonight, as well as Asia. I expect Euro stocks to start falling when those markets open in a few hours, despite and possibly partially because of the stimulus package announced by the European Central Bank.

There's been a lot of talk the last couple of days about bailouts and stock buybacks, so earlier when I couldn't post I wrote up an easily understandable explanation of what happened and is happening in those regards:
A corporation buys stock up from the market, which decreases the number of shares publicly available which in turn drives up share price, which is profitable for the majority shareholders who sit on the boards of these companies and who push for these business practices. The problem is, when the stock goes down in value, not only would the company then be taking a massive loss on that stock investment when selling it, the very act of doing so causes the value of the stock to decrease further as more shares are released back into the public trading market. It's part simple supply and demand. What this does is leave the company and it's majority shareholder decision-makers in a tight spot where they don't have enough cash on hand to cover operating expenses, having spent it all to buy back stock, but selling stock to get that liquid cash would be very damaging to the value of the company over an even longer term. Compounding the problem is the fact that so many of these companies then went on to borrow even more money at our artificially low interest rates to buy back more stock to further drive up the stock price. So when the bottom falls out, not only are they broke, but they're in massive debt that they can't possibly repay by selling the thing they went into debt to buy in the first place. And it's not only the airlines, this is happening across nearly all sectors of the market.
And they want our tax money to bail them out again. F* em. We have all seen this happen over and over. Think outside the box next time.

When the Dems start confiscating private islands, yachts, and mansions from hedge fund managers, I will agree to bans on 30 round mags.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

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K9s wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:08 am
kronkmusic wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:46 pm
Futures down big again tonight, as well as Asia. I expect Euro stocks to start falling when those markets open in a few hours, despite and possibly partially because of the stimulus package announced by the European Central Bank.

There's been a lot of talk the last couple of days about bailouts and stock buybacks, so earlier when I couldn't post I wrote up an easily understandable explanation of what happened and is happening in those regards:
A corporation buys stock up from the market, which decreases the number of shares publicly available which in turn drives up share price, which is profitable for the majority shareholders who sit on the boards of these companies and who push for these business practices. The problem is, when the stock goes down in value, not only would the company then be taking a massive loss on that stock investment when selling it, the very act of doing so causes the value of the stock to decrease further as more shares are released back into the public trading market. It's part simple supply and demand. What this does is leave the company and it's majority shareholder decision-makers in a tight spot where they don't have enough cash on hand to cover operating expenses, having spent it all to buy back stock, but selling stock to get that liquid cash would be very damaging to the value of the company over an even longer term. Compounding the problem is the fact that so many of these companies then went on to borrow even more money at our artificially low interest rates to buy back more stock to further drive up the stock price. So when the bottom falls out, not only are they broke, but they're in massive debt that they can't possibly repay by selling the thing they went into debt to buy in the first place. And it's not only the airlines, this is happening across nearly all sectors of the market.
And they want our tax money to bail them out again. F* em. We have all seen this happen over and over. Think outside the box next time.

When the Dems start confiscating private islands, yachts, and mansions from hedge fund managers, I will agree to bans on 30 round mags.
Add prison sentences equivalent to the pain they've inflicted on their employees, customers, and everyone else and I'll walk down to the police station and hand them my PMAGs and happy sticks myself.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by wooglin »

Warren's plan on bailouts:
  • Companies must maintain payrolls and use federal funds to keep people working.
    Businesses must provide $15 an hour minimum wage quickly but no later than a year from the end
    Companies would be permanently banned from engaging in stock buybacks.
    Companies would be barred from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they receive federal funds and the ban would be in place for three years.
    Businesses would have to provide at least one seat to workers on their board of directors, though it could be more depending on size of the rescue package.
    Collective bargaining agreements must remain in place.
    Corporate boards must get shareholder approval for all political spending.
    CEOs must certify their companies are complying with the rules and face criminal penalties for violating them
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1029006340

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Re: Dow drops a thou

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Markets opening down again today. I would not be surprised to see them settle below 19,000 by end of day, but I'm no expecting it either. My guess is tomorrow is going to be a big drop as investors dump stock in anticipation of how much worse the situation could get over the weekend. We can safely assume that the number of confirmed cases is going to jump substantially as soon as we start doing adequate testing. I also think investors are looking at these airlines and hotels and manufacturers like Boeing and are now saying "who else is still artificially overvalued? Who else leveraged themselves up to their eyeballs in debt to inflate their stock prices? And how can the federal government and the taxpayers bail out all of them when there's already a trillion dollars deficit and millions of people are going to be unemployed and starving in a matter of weeks?" They're looking around right now and making bets on which companies won't exist six months from now.
Last edited by kronkmusic on Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

Post by kronkmusic »

wooglin wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:05 am
Warren's plan on bailouts:
  • Companies must maintain payrolls and use federal funds to keep people working.
    Businesses must provide $15 an hour minimum wage quickly but no later than a year from the end
    Companies would be permanently banned from engaging in stock buybacks.
    Companies would be barred from paying out dividends or executive bonuses while they receive federal funds and the ban would be in place for three years.
    Businesses would have to provide at least one seat to workers on their board of directors, though it could be more depending on size of the rescue package.
    Collective bargaining agreements must remain in place.
    Corporate boards must get shareholder approval for all political spending.
    CEOs must certify their companies are complying with the rules and face criminal penalties for violating them
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1029006340
It's a decent plan. I like forcing them to provide board seats for worker representation, though I'd add in partial public and worker ownership. Why should tax payers give $10billion to a company and then not share in it's future profits?

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