Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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I have obtained a British Lion 'bulldog' style revolver chambered in .450 Adams. There is no serial number or manufacturer's mark on the gun, but both the frame and cylinder are marked '45' and there are Birmingham proof marks on the barrel, frame and each chamber on the cylinder. The 'British Lion' name and apparent british production indicate that the gun was likely made after 1878, when Webley trademarked the name 'British Bulldog.'

The gun is original and in excellent order. It is a robust, high quality firearm. I have seen one other 'British Lion' for sale at auction that was in .44 caliber and was marked with the patent for the joint-Stanton patent for it's rebounding hammer. Mine does not have a rebounding hammer.

I have been able to find out very little about this or other 'British Lion' revolvers, except that they are viewed as a near-equal to Webleys, and I found a literary reference to one from around 1900.

If anyone knows anything about who manufactured these revolvers, when and where etc. I'd love to learn more.
This appears to be the mark stamped in various places on the gun. It is from the Birmingham Proof House and was in use from 1813-1904, so it's no real help in dating the piece...
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Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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yes, I believe in "efficacy" (Efficacy is a measure proposed by L. Neil Smith. It is defined as energy in foot pounds multiplied by projectile cross-sectional area in square inches.) in other words, bigger is better.
the photo shows a .45acp on the left and a .577 Tranter revolver round on the right. (these days, that's .77" bigger than the law allows.)

Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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Some of the Belgian makers like Fracotte were easily the equal of Webley. When I was working on writing my book on Webley Bull Dogs, I never was able to be sure who made the "British Lion", but this one was an excellent copy of a Webley.'

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Moore was interesting company. It was a retailer with a presence in both England and the US, but definitely not a maker.

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Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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JoelB wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 11:20 am Some of the Belgian makers like Fracotte were easily the equal of Webley. When I was working on writing my book on Webley Bull Dogs, I never was able to be sure who made the "British Lion", but this one was an excellent copy of a Webley.'

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Moore was interesting company. It was a retailer with a presence in both England and the US, but definitely not a maker.

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Very nice! Any markings on that pistol to show who was the actual manufacturer or did Moore obliterate them? Did you by any chance consult and/or sell some bull dogs to Guy Ritchie's production company?
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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No, after I finished the Bull Dog book I sold all of mine to Joe Salter. That particular British Lion looked for all the world like a true Webley Bull Dog. The cylinder axis pin had a very Webley-like leaf spring meant to cause friction on the cylinder to keep it from turning back.

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When I saw that I was ready to ascribe it to Webley, but When I tore it down and found all these strange markings, I called it and excellent copy.

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Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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JoelB wrote: Sat May 19, 2018 12:35 pm No, after I finished the Bull Dog book I sold all of mine to Joe Salter. That particular British Lion looked for all the world like a true Webley Bull Dog. The cylinder axis pin had a very Webley-like leaf spring meant to cause friction on the cylinder to keep it from turning back.

When I saw that I was ready to ascribe it to Webley, but When I tore it down and found all these strange markings, I called it and excellent copy.
Your Bull Dogs book is still available on Amazon. Webley had quite a run with their early revolvers: "Royal Irish Constabulary" Revolver - 1868; "Bull Dog" Revolver - 1872; "Metropolitan Police" Revolver - 1880. IIRC Sherlock Homes was given a Metropolitan Police (Scotland Yard) revolver which he used in his adventures.

https://www.amazon.com/Webley-Solid-Fra ... 0764331523
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Information on a 'British Lion' revolver?

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JoelB wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:31 pm After finishing 3 books on British handguns, I've gone back to collecting high grade .22s. As usually happens with me, when I change my interests, I am getting a Webley collection to sell for a friend which includes 2 Fosberys. It is lucky I'm no longer collecting them, because the price on them now is insane.
I've always thought it was an intriguing idea for a revolver. Fosbery didn't just sit back on his VC after he retired he was very productive. The production number was small, any idea how many still exist? Collecting .22 pistols and rifles or just rifles?

Ian has some videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52t2jdLDHHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EqkcVlzVSw
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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