Home Defense Gun Suggestions

Reviews and discussion of handguns.

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DMac
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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

Post by DMac »


shinzen wrote:Sig 320 is my favorite these days as well- leaps and bounds above any other striker gun on the market. That said, not sure which state you hail from, but you may also be limited by what they allow-
There's really no restrictions at state level here, all of the restrictions are from my City and County. And there are no handgun restrictions except no threaded barrel or laser sights. Nearly all semi rifles are banned at the city and county level though.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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No laser sights? Jesus, legislators are idiots.
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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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senorgrand wrote:No laser sights? Jesus, legislators are idiots.
Oh, you didn't know? Laser sights are the leading cause of rape. Maybe something your government didn't tell you, glad mines is here to protect me.

Code: Select all

  
Chicago Municipal Code 8-20-060

Any laser sight accessory, or firearm silencer or muffler, carried, possessed, displayed or sold in violation of this section is hereby declared to be contraband and shall be seized by and forfeited to the city. 

It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess, display for sale, sell or otherwise transfer any laser sight accessory, or a firearm silencer or muffler.

“Laser sight accessory” means a laser sighting device which is either integrated into a firearm or capable of being attached to a firearm

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

Post by senorgrand »

So bore sighter are illegal too? It's like letting republicans legislate reproductive health...
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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

Post by dkonrai »

Get the g23, and a 40x9 conversion barrel. Best of both worlds?
Try a full size? G22/17 or 34/35?
Or, it's is calguns. You will eventually get all the pistols on your list.
Or? Get a revolver, 357 and a matching lever action? Lots of nice used ones here on cg.
Things to consider, new shooter should keep it simple. Glock, Smith, XD are simple by design. Sig, 1911s, CZ have more controls like safety's, and maybe decockers that can distract a new shooter.
Whatever you decide take a training course or sign up for a run and gun class .
Practice dry firing and blind reloads.



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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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My bedroom gun was a S&W 686 till I sold that, then it was a CZ-85 till I decided I couldn't bear to lose it if I had to use it, now its a CZ-2075.

Like everyone else has said, try and find the pistol you're looking for at a range and shoot it. For everyone who swears glocks are the most reliable things on the planet you have someone like me who has never gotten all the way through a glock mag without it failing to do at least one of the critical steps in the go-bang process.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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senorgrand wrote:So bore sighter are illegal too? It's like letting republicans legislate reproductive health...

The CPD superintendent and the former mayor said they wouldn't enforce such restrictions unless you're in the commission of a crime, and it'll be used to tack on charges.

However, the laws on the books doesn't make that distinction and says "any person". I'm not about to test those waters and get jammed up because they said they wouldn't enforce it.
dkonrai wrote:Get the g23, and a 40x9 conversion barrel. Best of both worlds?
Try a full size? G22/17 or 34/35?
I was thinking about that. G17 I will probably try. Trying to avoid modifications on my first gun.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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My summer carry is a Sig P365, but for winter it's back to Glock 19 (gen 4). I have handled the P320 Compact, but I still prefer the Glock because the Sig is wider, taller, and heavier for the same capacity (15 rounds). An extra 4 oz doesn't seem like a lot, until you carry it for half a day. Yes, Sig has a better trigger and superior craftmanship overall, but trigger crispness and nicer finish is not going to make a difference when I shoot the gun in self defense.
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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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A home defense gun can be very different from a carry gun. Do you intend to carry? If so, compact or subcompact are more practical. If not, full size is they way to go.

When I'm carrying, it's generally a Shield or LCP (my sheriff requires carry guns to be listed on the permit, limited to 3). No way those would be my first choice for around the house. I also have my M&P listed as a carry gun. No way is it my first choice for that, although it will work ok in the winter with a hoodie. It usually lives in a safe in the bedroom. I listed it primarily for traveling.

At some point, I'll pick up a CZ P-01 (compact 9 mm) that I would like to function as my primary carry and primary home defense gun. We'll see if that ever happens...

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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How can a bore sight be illegal? You can't fire the gun when you're using it. It's a laser but it's a bore sight, not a laser sight.
Then again, many laws make no damn sense.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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featureless wrote:A home defense gun can be very different from a carry gun. Do you intend to carry? If so, compact or subcompact are more practical. If not, full size is they way to go.
I plan on carrying. But the State Police division responsible for firearm licensing is underfunded and the law gives them 120 days to approve CCLs with no fingerprints (90 days w/ prints), and from people I've talked to that's how long it takes. This is of course after I complete a 16hr class.

So I'm going to end up with one home gun and one carry.
featureless wrote: When I'm carrying, it's generally a Shield or LCP (my sheriff requires carry guns to be listed on the permit, limited to 3).
How do you carry? I've been looking at appendix

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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YankeeTarheel wrote:How can a bore sight be illegal? You can't fire the gun when you're using it. It's a laser but it's a bore sight, not a laser sight.
Then again, many laws make no damn sense.
Without boring you with details (no pun), Chicago likes to have laws on the books that they claim they'll only enforce when you're committing a crime. Mainly for gangs.

I can't find a consistent answer on bore sights. You get conflicting answers from different authorities on specific laws like this.

I will likely contact my representative to find out, just because I'm curious.

Remember this is the same city that created a loophole to ban handguns

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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DMac wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:52 am
featureless wrote: When I'm carrying, it's generally a Shield or LCP (my sheriff requires carry guns to be listed on the permit, limited to 3).
How do you carry? I've been looking at appendix
I carry the Shield appendix, inner waist band. When standing or walking, you hardly know it's there. Sitting is a bit less comfortable and requires some adjusting. Longest I've tolerated it there while driving was 4 hours. All day would suck. I've changed out the holster belt clip from a loop to a stiff clip so I can remove it if in the car.

I've only carried the LCP in a pocket holster, although I have a small clip holster than can go appendix or elsewhere. You hardly know you're carrying it. Drawing from a pocket while sitting isn't an easy task, so not ideal.

I've farted around with my M&P40 in appendix but haven't ventured outside of the house with it there. It's comfortable enough but much harder to conceal. A hoodie or jacket do the trick. An over shirt, not so much.

With any carry, I've found (and has been echoed elsewhere here by others) that the length of the grip is the hardest part to conceal. Thickness of the gun matters but less than grip length. Also, because I'm still new to carry, I don't carry chambered. I know the drawbacks but figure I've made it 46 years without ever needing a gun. In the remote chance I do in the future, I'll either have the time to chamber, run or they are too close for me to use a gun anyway. I've got a few other tricks for those occasions.

Getting my permit required a new sheriff that would accept a reasonable good cause (old sheriff just wouldn't issue to normal people), 16 hour class and 3 months of pending... So you are not alone! I don't carry everyday since my work has a no weapons policy and I don't intent to break that. It's very nice to have for weekend excursions and especially when traveling.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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featureless wrote:
DMac wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:52 am
featureless wrote: When I'm carrying, it's generally a Shield or LCP (my sheriff requires carry guns to be listed on the permit, limited to 3).
How do you carry? I've been looking at appendix
I carry the Shield appendix, inner waist band. When standing or walking, you hardly know it's there. Sitting is a bit less comfortable and requires some adjusting. Longest I've tolerated it there while driving was 4 hours. All day would suck. I've changed out the holster belt clip from a loop to a stiff clip so I can remove it if in the car.

I've only carried the LCP in a pocket holster, although I have a small clip holster than can go appendix or elsewhere. You hardly know you're carrying it. Drawing from a pocket while sitting isn't an easy task, so not ideal.

I've farted around with my M&P40 in appendix but haven't ventured outside of the house with it there. It's comfortable enough but much harder to conceal. A hoodie or jacket do the trick. An over shirt, not so much.

With any carry, I've found (and has been echoed elsewhere here by others) that the length of the grip is the hardest part to conceal. Thickness of the gun matters but less than grip length. Also, because I'm still new to carry, I don't carry chambered. I know the drawbacks but figure I've made it 46 years without ever needing a gun. In the remote chance I do in the future, I'll either have the time to chamber, run or they are too close for me to use a gun anyway. I've got a few other tricks for those occasions.

Getting my permit required a new sheriff that would accept a reasonable good cause (old sheriff just wouldn't issue to normal people), 16 hour class and 3 months of pending... So you are not alone! I don't carry everyday since my work has a no weapons policy and I don't intent to break that. It's very nice to have for weekend excursions and especially when traveling.
Yeah I'm debating chambered or not for my carry. I'll probably go nonchambered for the same reason as yours.

I couldn't imagine living in a place where one guy or gal gets to arbitrarily decide if you can carry.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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DMac wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:27 pm
I couldn't imagine living in a place where one guy or gal gets to arbitrarily decide if you can carry.
Welcome to the blue counties of California. :lol:

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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featureless wrote:
DMac wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:27 pm
I couldn't imagine living in a place where one guy or gal gets to arbitrarily decide if you can carry.
Welcome to the blue counties of California. Image
Geez, did you need permission to create an account here?

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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My recommendation for new carriers is to shoot at least 200 rounds through their carry gun at the range.

Purpose:
  • To test the reliability of your gun, both with range and carry ammo.
  • To 'break in' your gun. Newer guns (especially Glocks) usually work 100% out of the box, but it never hurts to fire a couple of hundred bullets through it. They are designed to fire tens (even hundreds) of thousands of rounds.
  • To build familiarity and comfort with the new gun. After a couple of hundred rounds, you know by feel what would and would not make the gun fire. A modern gun is safe enough to be carried holstered with a round in the chamber, and you would know this through actual experience rather than theory.
When the ignorant are united and the informed are divided, the result is an idiocracy.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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Don't you if you're in a house or apartment, but a concern always is over penetration. Don't want to injure or kill your neighbors. I agree with a range gun/home gun and I'm partial to CZs and SIGs and smaller calibers. A lot of choices, depends on what you can afford and shoot well.
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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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OK. I have a stupid question about penetration. A lot of folks here suggest that .223 doesn't over-penetrate, when even a 9mm FMJ from a handgun can.

Yet, everything I read about kevlar and other protective vests, is that they stop pistol caliber rounds, but not rifle rounds, including .223.

Naturally, I'm confused. CAN .223 penetrate a vest, and if it can, how can it be said not to over-penetrate?
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:23 pm
OK. I have a stupid question about penetration. A lot of folks here suggest that .223 doesn't over-penetrate, when even a 9mm FMJ from a handgun can.

Yet, everything I read about kevlar and other protective vests, is that they stop pistol caliber rounds, but not rifle rounds, including .223.

Naturally, I'm confused. CAN .223 penetrate a vest, and if it can, how can it be said not to over-penetrate?
Great question. I did a lot of internet research on this some years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't save the links.

Lay person explanation from memory (using .223/5.56 interchangeably): .223 will zing right on through kevlar and then into a body right behind it making a mess. .223 will also zing on through a couple of sheets of drywall. If someone is right behind the drywall, it's going to end badly. However, once .223 is done zining through the drywall, it begins to tumble and quickly lose velocity/energy because it is so light (sort of like a foam ball vs. a rock). It sucks at killing criminals behind auto glass but excels at killing people wearing a heavy coat, for example. In fact, there are specialty rounds in .223 specific for barrier penetration, usually they are heavier to keep up velocity/energy after hitting the barrier. There are also soft/hollow point .223 rounds that are specifically intended to dump energy once they strike something solid by mushrooming (just like with 9mm hollowpoints). This is what I load my home defense mags. They are the least likely to go through my home's walls and into my neighbors' home. It is one of the multitude of reasons LEO, et. al. use it.

Kevlar stops 9mm based largely on the larger diameter (as well as less energy). .223 punches through. Is it easier to push a chopstick or 2x4 into a bucket of sand? Now which one is easier to throw through a window and hit something a few yards away?

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:23 pm
OK. I have a stupid question about penetration. A lot of folks here suggest that .223 doesn't over-penetrate, when even a 9mm FMJ from a handgun can.

Yet, everything I read about kevlar and other protective vests, is that they stop pistol caliber rounds, but not rifle rounds, including .223.

Naturally, I'm confused. CAN .223 penetrate a vest, and if it can, how can it be said not to over-penetrate?
Great question. I did a lot of internet research on this some years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't save the links.
Evernote for the win.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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I use it these days!

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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featureless wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:45 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:23 pm
OK. I have a stupid question about penetration. A lot of folks here suggest that .223 doesn't over-penetrate, when even a 9mm FMJ from a handgun can.

Yet, everything I read about kevlar and other protective vests, is that they stop pistol caliber rounds, but not rifle rounds, including .223.

Naturally, I'm confused. CAN .223 penetrate a vest, and if it can, how can it be said not to over-penetrate?
Great question. I did a lot of internet research on this some years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't save the links.

Lay person explanation from memory (using .223/5.56 interchangeably): .223 will zing right on through kevlar and then into a body right behind it making a mess. .223 will also zing on through a couple of sheets of drywall. If someone is right behind the drywall, it's going to end badly. However, once .223 is done zining through the drywall, it begins to tumble and quickly lose velocity/energy because it is so light (sort of like a foam ball vs. a rock). It sucks at killing criminals behind auto glass but excels at killing people wearing a heavy coat, for example. In fact, there are specialty rounds in .223 specific for barrier penetration, usually they are heavier to keep up velocity/energy after hitting the barrier. There are also soft/hollow point .223 rounds that are specifically intended to dump energy once they strike something solid by mushrooming (just like with 9mm hollowpoints). This is what I load my home defense mags. They are the least likely to go through my home's walls and into my neighbors' home. It is one of the multitude of reasons LEO, et. al. use it.

Kevlar stops 9mm based largely on the larger diameter (as well as less energy). .223 punches through. Is it easier to push a chopstick or 2x4 into a bucket of sand? Now which one is easier to throw through a window and hit something a few yards away?
Interesting. I'm a fairly logical mind (or at least I'm deluded into thinking I am! :lol: ) so this seemed an obvious question.

"Easier" is a funny word. The .223 goes through the vest because it has more pressure at the point of contact than the 9mm, far more. Probably a lot more kinetic energy as well. So the contact surface and the pressure due to the FPS punches it through. Still, I'd rather take my chance on a 9mm JHP inside. But that MAY be wrong. We haven't seen (or at least I haven't ) data on penetration during actual invasions with either.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=26
I've never found the original to this, so take it with a grain of lead.

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Re: Home Defense Gun Suggestions

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When the ignorant are united and the informed are divided, the result is an idiocracy.

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