Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

1
Greetings!

I am considering getting a Llama Micromax .380. It seems that Llama produced these in a few variations or at least with different model names over time, and then they went out of business, and now they are being reproduced by Metro Arms in the Philippines. I have seen some good reviews of these, but not a lot of info comparing the old and the new models, and whether or not parts for the new and old are interchangeable to any extent. Any knowledge here? I have also looked at the Colt Mustang and it's variants, the Baby Rock, and the Browning 380, but at this point I prefer the Llama for a few reasons.

Thanks!

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

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When I was looking for my current 380 1911 I looked at one of the new production Llamas'. I was able to do a side by side comparison of the Llama, the Baby Rock, the Browning 1911-380, and my Kimber 380 Micro.

The Llama and the Baby Rock were essentially the same pistols. They were both heavy, blowback operated, with the same external extractor. Both would need a lot of polishing to make "good." By way of reference, I did that with my Makarov, I detail stripped it and polished all mating surfaces other than the sear and hammer contact area, for good reason, I didn't touch those surfaces. When I was done it was a significantly better pistol. Bith the Llama and the Baby Rock seemed to be in immediate need of that treatment.

Even if that were done, it would do nothing about the weight, and because they were blowback, the spring weight. Very simply, in that comparison, it was obvious that the Browning and Kimber were leagues ahead of the Llama and the Baby Rock I ended up going with the Browning 1911-380. I still have the Kimber and a Colt 380 Government Model, however, I am much happier with the Browning.
Image

Here it is with the .22lr slide. With the recent ammo prices, more .22 than 380 has been going through it. As an aside, while the 380 barrel and slide assembly with a locking arrangement, as can be seen in the picture. However, the .22lr is a straight blowback arrangement. The result is that the felt recoil is extremely similar with both calibres.
Last edited by Hasaf on Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” Matt. 25:40

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

4
Hasaf wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:54 am When I was looking for my current 380 1911 I looked at one of the new production Llamas'. I was able to do a side by side comparison of the Llama, the Baby Rock, the Browning 1911-380, and my Kimber 380 Micro.

The Llama and the Baby Rock were essentially the same pistols. They were both heavy, blowback operated, with the same external extractor. Both would need a lot of polishing to make "good." By way of reference, I did that with my Makarov, I detail stripped it and polished all mating surfaces other than the sear and hammer contact area, for good reason, I didn't touch those surfaces. When I was done it was a significantly better pistol. Bith the Llama and the Baby Rock seemed to be in immediate need of that treatment.

Even if that were done, it would do nothing about the weight, and because they were blowback, the spring weight. Very simply, in that comparison, it was obvious that the Browning and Kimber were leagues ahead of the Llama and the Baby Rock I ended up going with the Browning 1911-380. I still have the Kimber and a Colt 380 Government Model, however, I am much happier with the Browning.
Image
Here it is with the .22lr slide. With the recent ammo prices, more .22 than 380 has been going through it. As an aside, while the 380 barrel and slide assembly with a locking arrangement, as can be seen in the picture. However, the .22lr is a straight blowback arrangement. The result is that the felt recoil is extremely similar with both calibers.
I thought I had heard that the newer version of the Llama was a locked breech, but I guess not. I have read that some of the older versions are often locked breech, like the IIIA, but it seems even within the same model not always so. Can you tell if it's blowback vs locked breech by looking at it?

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

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On a blowback pistol, as you pull the slide back, the barrel will not move. With a locking arrangement, the barrel will move slightly downward, rotate, or do something other than sit solidly. Also, the blowback pistol will have a much heavier recoil spring.

If you are able to field strip the pistol it gets easier. A locking breech pistol will have some sort od lugs, or a recess, on the slide, that the barrel fits into. This one is a bit harder because it isn't immediately clear what the barrel licks into on Glock's and Glock-a-like's (answer, the ejection port). However, there is an easier way to tell.

with the exception of the HK P7, and a few other oddballs, if the barrel is fixed to the frame, then it is probably blowback (yers, I know. . . the P7). On the 1911 style pistols the barrel is held in place with the slide release lever (yes, I know. . . take the answers in context, this is not an engineering manual).

If the part of the barrel that the slide release lever goes through has some facility for the barrel to move, it is probably locking breech. If it is just a round hole, with no provision for movement, it is probably blowback.

These pictures are of the same gun, two different top ends
Image
Image

Note that the 22 barrel has a round hole where the slide stop goes through it. This allows for no movement. This a blowback arrangement.
The one top is the 380, note that on this one, the same hole allows for the barrel to move. This movement is necessary for a non-blowback pistol to operate properly (again, with some exceptions).
"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” Matt. 25:40

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

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Man there's a lot to consider in all this, and there's such a range of pistols in the world. Ultimately I am looking for a gun that would work well as a CCW, but also be an enjoyable gun to shoot. Not too small, not too big. I thought the Llama or something similar would fit the bill, but I realize I would likely need to carry this "cocked and locked" which is not so appealing to me. For all the research I have done, it seems to me a DA/SA with a locked breech around the size of the Llama would be my ideal, likely in 380 but possibly 9mm. Not such a common setup in 380 as I have found so far. I have read that 380 was designed and is based off of the .45, so the comparisons to 9mm don't really hold. I know a lot of people don't like 380, and then a lot of people do.

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

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flintlock wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:12 pm . For all the research I have done, it seems to me a DA/SA with a locked breech around the size of the Llama would be my ideal, likely in 380 but possibly 9mm. Not such a common setup in 380 as I have found so far.
Behold the much-maligned Walther PK380. There really was nothing wrong with it; it could have been a great pistol, instead, it is just good.
Image

(not my picture, for some reason, I don't have a good picture of mine)

A DA/SA in 380. As I mentioned, there were some design/marketing decisions that kept this one from greatness. It uses a locked breech in its 380 configuration. This confuses people because, like my Browning 1911-380, in the 22lr configuration it is a blowback. I do not know if the Walther PK380 is convertible to 22lr, like the Browning is.

Why isn't the Walther my carry pistol? I just like the Browning more.

You are about a year late for the flood of surplus Beretta 85F 380acp police turn-ins, however, you may still find some at reasonable prices. They are also Blowback, one of the reasons I never got one.
Image

Grand Power also offers several 380acp DA/SA pistols. The reviews are generally good, it is just a line that isn't seen much. I have never handled one.

Another you might consider is the S&W M&P Shield EZ. It is a single action, however, the hammer is inside the slide and not seen. You can get it with or without a thumb safety. It has a grip safety (a feature that I am a fan of), as such, the thumb safety is not as strong of a need.
Image

(not my photo)
"Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” Matt. 25:40

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

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Once again, you all have given me some things to think about. I had researched the Walther, and it get's too many mixed reviews and just doesn't seem right anyway. Thank you Hasaf especially for all the great information for me to consider. I'm looking at the Browning especially, although I'm also considering a 9mm if the setup is right. We are in the midst of packing to move halfway across the country so I'm pretty tapped for a bit.

Re: Llama Micromax 1911 style .380 comparison of older and newer models?

10
Hasaf wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:54 am When I was looking for my current 380 1911 I looked at one of the new production Llamas'. I was able to do a side by side comparison of the Llama, the Baby Rock, the Browning 1911-380, and my Kimber 380 Micro.

The Llama and the Baby Rock were essentially the same pistols. They were both heavy, blowback operated, with the same external extractor. Both would need a lot of polishing to make "good." By way of reference, I did that with my Makarov, I detail stripped it and polished all mating surfaces other than the sear and hammer contact area, for good reason, I didn't touch those surfaces. When I was done it was a significantly better pistol. Bith the Llama and the Baby Rock seemed to be in immediate need of that treatment.

Even if that were done, it would do nothing about the weight, and because they were blowback, the spring weight. Very simply, in that comparison, it was obvious that the Browning and Kimber were leagues ahead of the Llama and the Baby Rock I ended up going with the Browning 1911-380. I still have the Kimber and a Colt 380 Government Model, however, I am much happier with the Browning.
Image

Here it is with the .22lr slide. With the recent ammo prices, more .22 than 380 has been going through it. As an aside, while the 380 barrel and slide assembly with a locking arrangement, as can be seen in the picture. However, the .22lr is a straight blowback arrangement. The result is that the felt recoil is extremely similar with both calibres.
I really like the idea that the Browning can have a .22 slide as well. I'm still looking at the Browning and the Colt models. I wonder what it is about the Browning you like better than the Colts?

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