Page 1 of 1

1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:34 pm
by 1911FREAK
My two favorite pistols are both 3" 1911s with full-length guide rods. I have discovered that using a bent paper clip type tool to capture the recoil spring for field stripping is not necessary. I always found it to be an awkward process at best. However, with some care and control of the slide under spring tension, it is much easier and quicker to simply align the slide stop notch, push out the link pin and move the slide forward and off. Reassembly is not an issue without the tool either.
No doubt, others are well ahead of me in this procedure variation, but some may not be aware of it.
Carry on.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:28 pm
by tonguengroover
I appreciate advice given on this forum even though I do not have a 1911 yet. Yet means next on the list.
I have a problem, with ones I've handled being the grip safety on the back strap. I guess it takes some getting used to as my grip is not as it should be and the damned gun won't go POW.
Are there any without?

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 pm
by Crow
tonguengroover wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:28 pm
I have a problem, with ones I've handled being the grip safety on the back strap. I guess it takes some getting used to as my grip is not as it should be and the damned gun won't go POW.
Are there any without?
I feel ya, TG.
I love my 1911 but I shoot my CZ 9mm a LOT more and use a high "modern" style grip that just doesn't translate to the 1911 very well. From what I understand, the 1911 was meant to be shot one handed and there's actually some cool vintage "training" vids on the proper way to shoot it that were made by the US Army back in the day. You can find these on YouTube.
I don't know if there are 1911s without the grip safety... And I don't know if I'd want one. The charm seems to be in the whole package and its idiosyncrasies. But yeah, if it doesn't go Bang all the time, it might not be the best choice for protection.
Crow

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:54 pm
by tonguengroover
Crow wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:28 pm
I have a problem, with ones I've handled being the grip safety on the back strap. I guess it takes some getting used to as my grip is not as it should be and the damned gun won't go POW.
Are there any without?
I feel ya, TG.
I love my 1911 but I shoot my CZ 9mm a LOT more and use a high "modern" style grip that just doesn't translate to the 1911 very well. From what I understand, the 1911 was meant to be shot one handed and there's actually some cool vintage "training" vids on the proper way to shoot it that were made by the US Army back in the day. You can find these on YouTube.
I don't know if there are 1911s without the grip safety... And I don't know if I'd want one. The charm seems to be in the whole package and its idiosyncrasies. But yeah, if it doesn't go Bang all the time, it might not be the best choice for protection.
Crow
I heard the Ruger SR 1911 has one that extends further which makes it easier to engage .
Course i cant find one.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:58 am
by 1911FREAK
Crow wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 pm I don't know if there are 1911s without the grip safety...
Crow
The grip safety is an integral part of the 1911 functional system. Given that the normal carrying mode is cocked and locked with a chambered round, deleting or disabling the grip safety could allow accidental firing.

If you are not engaging the grip safety when ready to pull the trigger, then you have a problem with your grip. A high, tight grip will allow the weapon to fire.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:45 am
by papajim2jordan
Aftermarket grip safeties which attempt to solve the failure to depress issue, some drop-in, some require fitting.

They can be de-activated by various means, but a bit unnerving to do so.



https://www.caspianarms.com/productdisp ... -stainless

https://shopwilsoncombat.com/GRIP-SAFET ... nfo/429BG/

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:17 am
by tonguengroover
Yes I get its part of the design. Seems there's lots of chatter about grip safetys on the 1911 forum.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:35 am
by CDFingers
I shoot a stock (but for Pachmayr grips) Springfield 1911 A-1, and I wonder what is the advantage to a full length guide rod?

CDFingers

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:42 pm
by Bisbee
Visual aesthetics primarily. And the feel good factor of having a bit of tungsten bling on your otherwise stock out of the box 1911 (to make your gun heavier!?!).

You’ll end up looking like a fan-boy at the range trying out the latest “SOCOM edition 1911”... It’s so not you, CD.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:59 pm
by papajim2jordan
CDFingers wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:35 am I shoot a stock (but for Pachmayr grips) Springfield 1911 A-1, and I wonder what is the advantage to a full length guide rod?

CDFingers
As noted in the first post, it allows for slide removal without messing with the barrel bushing and lessens the possibility of the spring and stock guide rod launching and knocking over your coffee.

One negative is that it makes one hand manual slide operation nearly impossible if not downright awkward.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:07 pm
by CDFingers
papajim2jordan wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:59 pm
CDFingers wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:35 am I shoot a stock (but for Pachmayr grips) Springfield 1911 A-1, and I wonder what is the advantage to a full length guide rod?

CDFingers
As noted in the first post, it allows for slide removal without messing with the barrel bushing and lessens the possibility of the spring and stock guide rod launching and knocking over your coffee.

One negative is that it makes one hand manual slide operation nearly impossible if not downright awkward.
When I read the OP, I wondered if that was the only thing. As an experiment, I waited 740 rounds to clean mine the first time. I didn't have any problem with the rod. It was a bit gritty after that many rounds.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45561&p=801193&hili ... er#p801193

CDFingers

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:08 am
by INVICTVS138
tonguengroover wrote:
Crow wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:28 pm
I have a problem, with ones I've handled being the grip safety on the back strap. I guess it takes some getting used to as my grip is not as it should be and the damned gun won't go POW.
Are there any without?
I feel ya, TG.
I love my 1911 but I shoot my CZ 9mm a LOT more and use a high "modern" style grip that just doesn't translate to the 1911 very well. From what I understand, the 1911 was meant to be shot one handed and there's actually some cool vintage "training" vids on the proper way to shoot it that were made by the US Army back in the day. You can find these on YouTube.
I don't know if there are 1911s without the grip safety... And I don't know if I'd want one. The charm seems to be in the whole package and its idiosyncrasies. But yeah, if it doesn't go Bang all the time, it might not be the best choice for protection.
Crow
I heard the Ruger SR 1911 has one that extends further which makes it easier to engage .
Course i cant find one.
I have an SR 1911 Commander. It’s a partial length guide rod & to me easy to field strip by merely depressing the spring end cap and holding it with the thumb while twisting the bushing to align the lugs for disassembly. Very easy and no tools required.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:01 am
by MicahaelTinkerPearce
The full-length guide-rod does serve a functional purpose, but it's fair to question that purpose. They originated as a feature for target competition pistols, and they help to maintain a more consistent relationship between the various bits of the gun. They also can prevent damage to the recoil spring which happens incredibly rarely and usually only in guns that are totally worn out. They provide non-reciprocating weight (though not much) that helps with recoil management.

On a full-sized 1911 they have been found to provide enough benefit to be worth it for competition pistols that will have a high round-count. This competition experience has bled over into 'tactic-cool' pistols because the whole movement was originally inextricably intertwined with IPSC competition. Also in the 1980s compensators became a thing on IPSC pistols, and reliability was enhanced when the weight of these was supported in recoil by a full-length guide-rod (these were not the light-weight comps of today; whey were also barrel-weights that carried the front sight.) For a full-size range-toy/home-defense handgun full-length guide-rods are not particularly necessary.

On short-barreled guns in the 3 to 3-3/4" range they are absolutely vital for spring management. No one really got a sub-compact 1911 working until Detonics combined the bull-barrel with a captured recoil system with a full-length guide rod. In the fullness of time it was discovered that the 'captured' part was optional, but the guide-rod was indispensable. It's just too hard to get the recoils springs to play nice with the short barrel without the guide-rod, particularly since many of these systems use multiple recoil springs.

The Detonics, BTW, does not have a grip safety. It used a full-length mainspring housing; there was no room for a functional grip safety, and it was held to be unnecessary on a dedicated concealed-carry pistol (as opposed to a duty pistol.) The next sub-compact commercial 1911, the Colt I'm-Really-Not-a-Detonics-Ripoff, er, I mean the 'Officer's Model' used a short mainspring housing and a short functional grip safety, which has become the standard way to do it these days.
Image

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:43 am
by CDFingers
Great answer to the guide rod question for me. Plus, that's a very cute little pistol there.

CDFingers

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:46 pm
by papajim2jordan
The full length guide rod makes this thing a lot easier to disassemble. The original setup required a screwdriver to undo the plug. Barrel / bushing is a now defunct Kings with comp. Aftermarket grip safety has protrusion to help with release. Hole in rod is for a pin to hold the thing together when removing the spring assembly.
IMG_2316.JPG
IMG_2317.JPG
IMG_2318.JPG

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:34 pm
by MicahaelTinkerPearce
papajim2jordan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:46 pm The full length guide rod makes this thing a lot easier to disassemble. The original setup required a screwdriver to undo the plug. Barrel / bushing is a now defunct Kings with comp. Aftermarket grip safety has protrusion to help with release. Hole in rod is for a pin to hold the thing together when removing the spring assembly.

IMG_2316.JPGIMG_2317.JPGIMG_2318.JPG
Nifty little blaster! What make, or did you assemble it?

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:41 pm
by MicahaelTinkerPearce
CDFingers wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:43 am Great answer to the guide rod question for me. Plus, that's a very cute little pistol there.

CDFingers
Thanks! I love the Combat Master.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:40 pm
by NuJudge
There is a pad on the bottom edge of some grip safeties to ensure that the grip safety is fully actuate:
https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/han ... ip-safety/
The grip safety on my father's 1911 did not have the pad at the bottom or protective edge at the top, so the hammer bit my hand regularly.
I shoot a .22 Nelson conversion on one of my 1911 Bullseye competition pistols, and the full length guide rod lets me swap the upper end much quicker than the short spring guide allows.

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:33 am
by F4FEver
1911FREAK wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:58 am
Crow wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 pm I don't know if there are 1911s without the grip safety...
Crow
The grip safety is an integral part of the 1911 functional system. Given that the normal carrying mode is cocked and locked with a chambered round, deleting or disabling the grip safety could allow accidental firing.

If you are not engaging the grip safety when ready to pull the trigger, then you have a problem with your grip. A high, tight grip will allow the weapon to fire.
Not sure why...the thing has a thumb safety. Yup, it'll fire if ya thumb the safety off and squeeze the trigger, like any gun...seems redundant to me(and nope, no 1911s thanks).'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZYciQLj8tc

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:14 pm
by papajim2jordan
MicahaelTinkerPearce wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:34 pm
papajim2jordan wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:46 pm The full length guide rod makes this thing a lot easier to disassemble. The original setup required a screwdriver to undo the plug. Barrel / bushing is a now defunct Kings with comp. Aftermarket grip safety has protrusion to help with release. Hole in rod is for a pin to hold the thing together when removing the spring assembly.

IMG_2316.JPGIMG_2317.JPGIMG_2318.JPG
Nifty little blaster! What make, or did you assemble it?
A Colt Officers ACP. Shorter grip frame, shorter barrel. Bought a bunch of aftermarket bits, most not drop-in but needing fitting and frame modification, which explaines why it is kinda ugly. It is slick and smooth firing, however. A decades long project, still ongoing. Hobby? Time incinerator?

Re: 1911s and Full-length Guide Rods

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2023 4:46 pm
by Wallydo
In my humble opinion the full length guide rod was a passing fad, like many things that boasted what I will call negligible gains in performance. I bought A Colt gold cup used, and the previous owner installed one…. Can’t really tell the difference between it and my other 1911 without it. That being said you are free to be yourself and if that’s what you want ….coolio!