"How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

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"How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#1 Post by highdesert » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:18 pm

Conservative columnist Mona Charen
Dear 2020 Democrats—all 23 of you who are running for president:

You are itching to be rid of Donald Trump. Who can blame you? Of course, if this were a normal Republican presidency, I would not share your feelings. Not remotely. As a lifelong conservative, I think your policy ideas are ill-advised. But this cycle, other Trump-disgusted Republicans and I can contemplate voting Democrat. We could do so not because we’ve become progressives, but because we think it’s in the long-term interests of conservatism and the country to be rid of Trump. If he gains a second term, conservatism may well be irredeemably tarnished. Still, much will depend upon whether the Democratic Party can resist its own drift toward Trumpiness. I’ll explain, but first, let me make the case that you should court Republican refugees like me in 2020.

You may think you don’t need us—but you’d be wrong. I know things are looking good for you: Trump’s approval rating has never topped 46 percent, and among younger voters, millennials and Gen Zers, his support is 30 percent or below. But Trump was elected with the lowest approval ratings of any major candidate in history. Polls can disguise as well as reveal. The “shy Tory” phenomenon—in which voters seem disinclined to tell pollsters that they support conservatives—is real across the globe, as evidenced most recently by the upset victory of the conservatives (called “liberals”) in Australia. Right-wing populism continues to show strength worldwide as recent election results in Brazil, India, Hungary, Poland and the Philippines attest. And if the results of the 2018 midterms have you feeling confident, you should look to the not-so-distant past. Democrats were pasted in the 2010 midterms and yet President Barack Obama glided painlessly to reelection in 2012.

While we’re on the subject of the midterms, remember that your 2018 victories were not a left-wing triumph. Your 40-seat pickup was due in no small measure to Republicans and independents who voted Democrat. In other words: Voters like me.

Democrats are well-positioned to win in 2020 by embracing political normalcy again. They can follow the path that brought Warren Harding to the presidency a hundred years ago, when, after World War I and the Spanish flu, Americans thought they’d seen the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: famine, war, pestilence and death. Harding ran on a “return to normalcy” and won in a landslide. Trump’s tenure has not, thankfully, featured pestilence or war. It’s more like the Three Stooges than the Four Horsemen. Still, today, many of us are prepared to put our long-term goals of balanced budgets and less government-controlled health care aside to feel some sense of political equilibrium again.

But that’s not the tone you are adopting. First, you seem taken with the idea of executive overreach. At the second candidate debate, Senator Kamala Harris declared that “When elected president of the United States, I will give the United States Congress 100 days to pull their act together ... and put a bill on my desk for signature” for new gun control measures. And if Congress does not, she said, she will take executive action to put in the “most comprehensive background check policy we’ve had,” require the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to take the licenses of gun dealers who break the law and ban the import of assault weapons. She further declared her intention to reinstate Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals status on “Day One,” not just for those brought here as children but for their parents and for veterans.

By what authority? This is precisely the kind of power grab that Trump engaged in when declaring his spurious state of emergency to redirect funds to his border wall. And though Democrats’ frustration with his lawlessness is justified, this would represent a total vindication of it. If Democrats respond to Trump’s arrogation of power by doing the same thing, our constitutional system is threatened.

It’s not just Harris. Beto O’Rourke has said that, while he opposed President Barack Obama’s reliance on executive authority to change immigration law, he would resort to it to fight climate change, “because we don’t have time to waste and there’s some things that are under the purview of the administration.” Like O’Rourke, Elizabeth Warren vows that on her first day in office she would issue an executive order “that says no more drilling—a total moratorium on all new fossil fuel leases, including for drilling offshore and on public lands.” Is this the Democratic version of “I alone can fix it?” For all his crazy-uncle socialism, at least Bernie Sanders promises to propose legislation—not to rule by decree.

The assertion of unlimited executive power is not just contrary to the Constitution; it’s also a recipe for rising political tensions. If I believe that a Democrat will propose legislation with which I disagree, I know I stand a good chance of having my representatives modify or even block it. That’s not true of executive action. The stakes of each presidential contest thus get ratcheted up, as both sides fear that the next president, unconstrained by Congress, can lurch the country in a dramatically new direction. That severely decreases the chances that all of you, hopeful Democrats, can bring more centrist voters over to your side.

Second, have some respect for the norms and institutions that undergird our system’s stability. You claim to be dismayed by Trump’s norm-shattering ways, and yet your proposals are political earthquakes. At least four Democratic presidential contenders—Kirsten Gillibrand, Pete Buttigieg, O’Rourke and Warren—have endorsed eliminating the Electoral College, and one, Harris, has pronounced herself “open” to it. Warren, Bill De Blasio and Harris would abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement. ICE is a relatively new agency, created in 2003, but enforcement of immigration law is not. Harris and Buttigieg also favor packing the Supreme Court. The court has had nine justices since 1869. Remember, when FDR attempted to pack the court in 1937, he was thwarted by his own party. If Democrats take this step, it will invite further erosions of tradition by the next Republican majority. And, like executive orders, it will heighten the sense that presidents are would-be emperors.

Sanders, Cory Booker, Harris, Warren, Julián Castro and Andrew Yang have endorsed the “Green New Deal,” and Amy Klobuchar and Gillibrand support the “aspirations” of the plan, if not the details. The plan would demand a vertiginous (in fact, impossible) reordering of our entire government and economy—for instance, by requiring the refurbishment of every single building in the country. If that isn’t enough, the Green New Deal also requires that all Americans be provided with health care, good jobs and “access to nature.” Stalin promised every kid a happy childhood. This is close.

There’s a clear way forward, Democrats, and it is grounded in the Constitution. Do what you think is right—propose legislation to fix Obamacare or spend more on basic research of climate change or whatever—but in the constitutional way. No sweeping, federalism-smashing plans to overhaul everything in the name of your preferred policies. And please, don’t call for the abolition of traditions and constitutional structures, like the Electoral College, that make voters nervous about your stewardship.

Joe Biden is one candidate who seems to understand voters’ longing for political quiet after the upheaval we’ve lived through. He hasn’t called to abolish ICE; he is fine with nine justices on the Supreme Court; and he intends to keep the Electoral College as he found it. He has not succumbed to the temptation of executive orders, and has in fact called them “wacko.” Democrats would be wise to embrace that sensibility, in the person of Biden or another, not just because it could win, but because it’s important for all of us, right and left, to turn our faces away from Caesarism—of the right or the left.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ats-227255
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#2 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:45 pm

This writer is delusional and doesn't (because she can't) cite statistics to back her assertions.

"While we’re on the subject of the midterms, remember that your 2018 victories were not a left-wing triumph. Your 40-seat pickup was due in no small measure to Republicans and independents who voted Democrat. In other words: Voters like me."

Really? I thought it was won by outraged Democrats, Leftists, Liberals, and Progressives getting off their collective couches and going out and registering and getting people to the polls. Voters like her were the hangers-on. That moderate Dems got out and voted was because THEY WERE PUSHED by activists!

"Still, today, many of us are prepared to put our long-term goals of balanced budgets and less government-controlled health care aside to feel some sense of political equilibrium again."

When the HELL were Conservatives EVER interested in "balanced budgets" when THEY were in power? Not in MY lifetime! Not sure about Ike, but every GOP President, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II, and Trump all, ALL expanded the deficit. Which means: UNbalanced budgets. They only preach it when Dems are in control and the Conservatives HATE that their meanness for the poor and needy is kicked to the curb by Democrats. They don't want money spent helping the needy or stopping pollution and corporate fraud so they call for "balanced budgets" as their Red Herring.

So she's full of shit.

The numbers: LESS people voted for the 2 parties' candidates in 2016 than in 2008, despite the population increasing by 19 million. 93 million didn't vote for EITHER Clinton or Trump. Maybe 3 million more people voted for Trump in 2016 than McCain in 2008, and about 3 million less for Clinton than Obama. The writer (and the so-called Dem "leaders") want to focus on those 3 million, risking alienating even MORE of the less than 67 million Clinton got rather than trying excite and convince far more of the 93 million to vote Democratic.

So she's full of shit. She's between a rock and a hard place and I have ZERO empathy, sympathy, or concern for her and her ilk. They went along with all the steps from Reagan to Gingrich to Dubya to McConnell that led to Trump being in the White House. We, the Liberal and Progressive Left are your only option other than Trump's total criminal corruption and incompetence.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#3 Post by CDFingers » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:31 am

People like her will decide on their own whether they accept this wanna be. I don't accept him and I will verbally piss on anyone defending his actions. I reject everything he stands for.

I consider him an illegitimate office scammer.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#4 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:58 am

I stand by my position that if you don't vote for the Democratic nominee, you're voting for Trump, whether you stay home or vote third party.
And if you don't vote for a Democratic Senate candidate (in your state) then you're voting to keep McConnell as the 2nd most dangerous man in Washington.

We can't fix America until we dispose of the destroyers of America.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#5 Post by Stiff » Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:55 am

Balanced budget my ass. When Dems had the presidency, Repubs insisted that every law should not result in new taxes nor deficit. The tax law that Trump passed is increasing the deficit by almost $10 trillion. That is $10,000,000,000,000.

https://www.apnews.com/eea3e05770e54380a179979aa632e5de

Democrats tax and spend, but Republicans spend and spend.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#6 Post by CDFingers » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:05 am

And Republicans "tend" to eviscerate everything helpful that a .gov might do for its people.
The American Human Development Index (AHDI) allows for a state-by-state assessment of critical factors like income, education, and health. When we calculated the average AHDI for the red states — those won by Donald Trump — it was much lower than the average AHDI for blue states. In fact, by way of international comparisons, the blue states won by Hillary Clinton have a human development index similar to the Netherlands, while the red states have an AHDI that resembles Russia’s.
https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor ... ne-nation/

The Repub voters don't care if they shaft themselves as long as people of color near by to them get shafted a bit more.

That's fucked up.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#7 Post by highdesert » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:59 am

Family values, balanced budgets, smaller government, moral and ethical standards....conservatism has taken a major hit and it's fatal unless Reps renounce Trump and Trumpism, which is highly unlikely. The Democratic nominee can't win the election based on Dem voters only, the number of Reps is even less. Anti-Trumpism only goes so far, how do candidates turn on more voters and not alienate others? Test issues by surveys and focus groups.

K9s posted an article where Big Pharma and drug prices attracted voters. One issue doesn't win an election, they need more.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=51840
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#8 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm

highdesert wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:59 am
Family values, balanced budgets, smaller government, moral and ethical standards....conservatism has taken a major hit and it's fatal unless Reps renounce Trump and Trumpism, which is highly unlikely. The Democratic nominee can't win the election based on Dem voters only, the number of Reps is even less. Anti-Trumpism only goes so far, how do candidates turn on more voters and not alienate others? Test issues by surveys and focus groups.

K9s posted an article where Big Pharma and drug prices attracted voters. One issue doesn't win an election, they need more.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=51840
Remember this number: 93 million. That's the number of Americans eligible to vote in the last election who either voted 3rd party or didn't bother to vote at all. 30 million MORE non-voters than voted for Trump. The party that can effectively (or more effectively) mine that 93 million will win.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#9 Post by highdesert » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:42 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm
highdesert wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:59 am
Family values, balanced budgets, smaller government, moral and ethical standards....conservatism has taken a major hit and it's fatal unless Reps renounce Trump and Trumpism, which is highly unlikely. The Democratic nominee can't win the election based on Dem voters only, the number of Reps is even less. Anti-Trumpism only goes so far, how do candidates turn on more voters and not alienate others? Test issues by surveys and focus groups.

K9s posted an article where Big Pharma and drug prices attracted voters. One issue doesn't win an election, they need more.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=51840
Remember this number: 93 million. That's the number of Americans eligible to vote in the last election who either voted 3rd party or didn't bother to vote at all. 30 million MORE non-voters than voted for Trump. The party that can effectively (or more effectively) mine that 93 million will win.
There were stories after the 2016 general election that: some Bernie supporters either didn't vote or voted Trump, African-American voters weren't motivated because Obama wasn't on the ballot... I agree people have to vote or Trump is in for another four years. Democrats have to find the best candidate and select winning issues or it's doomed.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#10 Post by NegativeApproach » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm

There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#11 Post by highdesert » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:27 pm

NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
That's definitely one of the issues that they need to change, gun grabbers motive Reps. Dems move to the left to win primaries and caucuses but can't win an election from there.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#12 Post by featureless » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:28 pm

NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
There are a lot of single issue voters out there that will vote for anyone over a Dem riding on gun control. Pretty gross, but true.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#13 Post by K9s » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:38 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm
highdesert wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:59 am
Family values, balanced budgets, smaller government, moral and ethical standards....conservatism has taken a major hit and it's fatal unless Reps renounce Trump and Trumpism, which is highly unlikely. The Democratic nominee can't win the election based on Dem voters only, the number of Reps is even less. Anti-Trumpism only goes so far, how do candidates turn on more voters and not alienate others? Test issues by surveys and focus groups.

K9s posted an article where Big Pharma and drug prices attracted voters. One issue doesn't win an election, they need more.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=51840
Remember this number: 93 million. That's the number of Americans eligible to vote in the last election who either voted 3rd party or didn't bother to vote at all. 30 million MORE non-voters than voted for Trump. The party that can effectively (or more effectively) mine that 93 million will win.
Never-Trump Republicans are a tiny percentage of the electorate. They pretend they are relevant and important. They can stay home if they are so self-important.

My idea:

Image
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#14 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:01 pm

K9s wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:38 pm
Never-Trump Republicans are a tiny percentage of the electorate. They pretend they are relevant and important. They can stay home if they are so self-important.
Exactly.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#15 Post by NegativeApproach » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:39 am

K9s wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:38 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:06 pm
highdesert wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:59 am
Family values, balanced budgets, smaller government, moral and ethical standards....conservatism has taken a major hit and it's fatal unless Reps renounce Trump and Trumpism, which is highly unlikely. The Democratic nominee can't win the election based on Dem voters only, the number of Reps is even less. Anti-Trumpism only goes so far, how do candidates turn on more voters and not alienate others? Test issues by surveys and focus groups.

K9s posted an article where Big Pharma and drug prices attracted voters. One issue doesn't win an election, they need more.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=51840
Remember this number: 93 million. That's the number of Americans eligible to vote in the last election who either voted 3rd party or didn't bother to vote at all. 30 million MORE non-voters than voted for Trump. The party that can effectively (or more effectively) mine that 93 million will win.
Never-Trump Republicans are a tiny percentage of the electorate. They pretend they are relevant and important. They can stay home if they are so self-important.

My idea:

Image
They may be a small percentage of the electorate, but if they get fired up, they will vote. If the Democratic Party keeps pissing off it's historic base (working class folks) they will either:

a) stay home

or worse

b) vote Trump

Gun rights are a big reason for Trump's victory. Granted, Trump was full of shit when he pretended he cared about the 2nd amendment, but at least he pandered. When you have two of the least popular candidates in modern history, things like gun rights can make a big difference for the Dems. If they want to keep pushing gun control, they will keep losing, and I think that's unfortunate.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#16 Post by Dreamsinger » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am

NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#17 Post by highdesert » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:29 am

Dreamsinger wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
Not surprising, if CA had a caucus instead of a primary we'd probably see the same thing here with added drama that befits the home of Hollywood. Limos, lap dogs, A listers ... they'd all be out.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#18 Post by NegativeApproach » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 am

Dreamsinger wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
This is absolutely the case, and what I see as well. Anti-authoritarians of left or right political persuasions are generally more pro-gun rights... where as statists and authoritarians are for more gun control.

I am sad to see Bernie tracking towards authoritarianism on the 2nd amendment, or at least paying lip service to it.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#19 Post by K9s » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am

NegativeApproach wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 am
Dreamsinger wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
This is absolutely the case, and what I see as well. Anti-authoritarians of left or right political persuasions are generally more pro-gun rights... where as statists and authoritarians are for more gun control.

I am sad to see Bernie tracking towards authoritarianism on the 2nd amendment, or at least paying lip service to it.
I am calling out this BS. Bernie is NOT tracking towards authoritarianism. Who the fox says that sort of thing? Oh, right. Fox and Breitbart.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#20 Post by highdesert » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:19 pm

K9s wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 am
Dreamsinger wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:00 pm
There's a simple way for a Democrat to win over a Never-Trumper: gun rights.

The Dems don't want to talk about that though, unfortunately.
As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
This is absolutely the case, and what I see as well. Anti-authoritarians of left or right political persuasions are generally more pro-gun rights... where as statists and authoritarians are for more gun control.

I am sad to see Bernie tracking towards authoritarianism on the 2nd amendment, or at least paying lip service to it.
I am calling out this BS. Bernie is NOT tracking towards authoritarianism. Who the fox says that sort of thing? Oh, right. Fox and Breitbart.
Bernie has a strong populist message like Trump, but they are very, very different at opposite ends of the political spectrum. Bernie is from VT, the state with open carry and no CCW needed. He's not authoritarian, but a libertarian might think that.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#21 Post by NegativeApproach » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:10 pm

highdesert wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:19 pm
K9s wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:55 am
NegativeApproach wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:31 am
Dreamsinger wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:30 am


As a Sanders delegate to Washington state's caucus one thing was crystal clear; gun owners were in the majority among the Sanders delegation. OTOH the gun banners all seemed to be in the designer pantsuit, Escalade driving, corporate DINO camp. To put a finer point on it, it appears gun control is more a factor of authoritarianism than right/left politics.
This is absolutely the case, and what I see as well. Anti-authoritarians of left or right political persuasions are generally more pro-gun rights... where as statists and authoritarians are for more gun control.

I am sad to see Bernie tracking towards authoritarianism on the 2nd amendment, or at least paying lip service to it.
I am calling out this BS. Bernie is NOT tracking towards authoritarianism. Who the fox says that sort of thing? Oh, right. Fox and Breitbart.
Bernie has a strong populist message like Trump, but they are very, very different at opposite ends of the political spectrum. Bernie is from VT, the state with open carry and no CCW needed. He's not authoritarian, but a libertarian might think that.
I stated my point very clearly. He's tracking authoritarian on the 2nd amendment. That is true, based on his platform on his own website, which wasn't reading this way in 2016:
•Expand background checks.
•End the gun show loophole. All gun purchases should be subject to the same background check standards.
•Ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons. Assault weapons are designed and sold as tools of war. There is absolutely no reason why these firearms should be sold to civilians.
•Prohibit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/gun-safety/

Those are authoritarian anti-gun positions.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#22 Post by CDFingers » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:23 am

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If Bernie were the VP candidate, his anti gun planks would mean less. Don't like those points, though.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#23 Post by eelj » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:37 am

On a national level I look for a candidate whose main agenda is progressive reform. To get any kind of support they will have to at least mouth the dncs gun control agenda.

But if they are really looking for change once in office there will be no time to waste on the vanity issue of the 2nd amendment. Candidates like Biden have already let it be known that change is not on his agenda, he will push congress on gun control.

People need to concentrate more on state and local elections where they actually have a chance to make a difference.

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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#24 Post by K9s » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:23 am

eelj wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:37 am
On a national level I look for a candidate whose main agenda is progressive reform. To get any kind of support they will have to at least mouth the dncs gun control agenda.

But if they are really looking for change once in office there will be no time to waste on the vanity issue of the 2nd amendment. Candidates like Biden have already let it be known that change is not on his agenda, he will push congress on gun control.

People need to concentrate more on state and local elections where they actually have a chance to make a difference.
Agree 100%. Local and state elections are the most important. Study the issues and candidates that directly control your rights, community, and lives.

The national Dems won't actually ban guns and the Reps won't actually ban abortion because they need wedge issues to raise money and distract voters from the real corruption. 'The AWB was a killer for Dems in elections. Any national bans will be gummed up in McConnell's right wing courts for years.
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Re: "How a Democrat Can Win Over a Never-Trumper"

#25 Post by highdesert » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:12 pm

K9s wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:23 am
eelj wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:37 am
On a national level I look for a candidate whose main agenda is progressive reform. To get any kind of support they will have to at least mouth the dncs gun control agenda.

But if they are really looking for change once in office there will be no time to waste on the vanity issue of the 2nd amendment. Candidates like Biden have already let it be known that change is not on his agenda, he will push congress on gun control.

People need to concentrate more on state and local elections where they actually have a chance to make a difference.
Agree 100%. Local and state elections are the most important. Study the issues and candidates that directly control your rights, community, and lives.

The national Dems won't actually ban guns and the Reps won't actually ban abortion because they need wedge issues to raise money and distract voters from the real corruption. 'The AWB was a killer for Dems in elections. Any national bans will be gummed up in McConnell's right wing courts for years.
Yes, controversial issues like abortion and guns stir up the bases for the 2020 election ahead, same with the immigration issue. I agree about state and local races is where the focus should be, it's easier to get consensus. One House or Senate member can't get much done but they run on all these programs and issues that mostly have zero chance of becoming law.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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