"Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

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"Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#1 Post by highdesert » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:12 pm

Nate Silver at 538 dot com.
Last week, I noted that Bernie Sanders is winning over Democratic primary voters on health care. Whether you love, hate or are indifferent toward his “Medicare for All” plan, polls show Sanders leading when Democratic voters are asked which candidate they think is best able handle to health care.

The thing is, though — according to new polling from Marist College this week — Sanders’s plan isn’t actually the most popular idea in the field. Instead, that distinction belongs to what Marist calls “Medicare for all that want it,” or what’s sometimes called a public option — something very similar to Joe Biden’s recently unveiled health care plan, which claims to give almost everyone “the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare.”

In the Marist poll, 90 percent of Democrats thought a plan that provided for a public option was a good idea, as compared to 64 percent who supported a Sanders-style Medicare for All plan that would replace private health insurance. The popularity of the public option also carries over to independent voters: 70 percent support it, as compared to 39 percent for Medicare for All.

Last week, I noted that Bernie Sanders is winning over Democratic primary voters on health care. Whether you love, hate or are indifferent toward his “Medicare for All” plan, polls show Sanders leading when Democratic voters are asked which candidate they think is best able handle to health care.

The thing is, though — according to new polling from Marist College this week — Sanders’s plan isn’t actually the most popular idea in the field. Instead, that distinction belongs to what Marist calls “Medicare for all that want it,” or what’s sometimes called a public option — something very similar to Joe Biden’s recently unveiled health care plan, which claims to give almost everyone “the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare.”

In the Marist poll, 90 percent of Democrats thought a plan that provided for a public option was a good idea, as compared to 64 percent who supported a Sanders-style Medicare for All plan that would replace private health insurance. The popularity of the public option also carries over to independent voters: 70 percent support it, as compared to 39 percent for Medicare for All.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/me ... democrats/
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#2 Post by K9s » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:27 pm

I think that, even though we know it wouldn't get past Congress, it is a good idea to discuss options like Medicare for All and other healthcare ideas.

The conversation should be about something other than POTUS. Healthcare, income inequality, education, etc. are more interesting.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#3 Post by highdesert » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:47 pm

K9s wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:27 pm
I think that, even though we know it wouldn't get past Congress, it is a good idea to discuss options like Medicare for All and other healthcare ideas.

The conversation should be about something other than POTUS. Healthcare, income inequality, education, etc. are more interesting.
Kamala Harris must be reading polls, her brand new health care plan looks a lot like Biden's plan.

Yes, Trump will always be the huge elephant in the room, Dems have to talk issues and options when it comes to health care, to appeal to the largest number of voters.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#4 Post by Marlene » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:57 pm

Americans can’t math and don’t understand how insurance works, let alone medicine. Their feelings matter more than facts in policy making. Even the poll itself is unclear about the difference between “public option” and “Medicare for all”.

Doesn’t matter which we get as long as we get one of them. Any public option that isn’t designed expressly to fail will drive all but the most esoteric supplemental private insurance out of business quickly enough.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#5 Post by highdesert » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:59 am

There are a lot of options, single payer is only one. Not everyone on Medicare has straight Medicare coverage (single payer), approximately 30% have Medicare Advantage plans administered by insurance companies and controlled by Medicare and 20% have Medicare Supplements offered by insurance companies and also controlled by Medicare. Straight Medicare has no cap on annual out of pocket costs, Medicare Advantage programs do. In Europe, the UK has a single system (NHS) though there are a few private health insurance companies and a few private hospitals for those who want them. France and Germany provide universal coverage through tightly regulated private insurance companies.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#6 Post by K9s » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:00 pm

Yes, a lot of options. If the insurance lobbyists, Big Pharma, and GOP can muddy the water like they have for decades, most Americans won't understand the options open to them. The lobbyists and GOP lie. Don't believe their statistics and claims. If you think they might be truthful, remember the opioid crisis, bank bailouts, endless wars, and tax cuts they sold you.

The Clintons tried to pass a healthcare plan. It took Obama to get it done. It has been a slow & bumpy road, but people may actually get lower prices and better care some day. This is a PR war, not a factual debate.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#7 Post by geno » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:41 pm

:sarcasm: I wonder how many Americans will read "Marxist" instead of "Marist" if this was to get wide attention.

Side note: Marxist, I mean Marist Brothers taught me in grade school, grades 5-8, one had been there long enough to have
taught several of my uncles. They could be very tough teachers, I once got the "strap" across my hands for a rubber band "fight"
on the bus. The worse part was the principle, Brother Mark Antony, coming into the classroom first thing in the morning and telling the
three or four involved to come to the office at the end of the day. The waiting wasn't fun.
Eight years later while I was working for a local roofer in the summer while going to college, when we put a roof on the house they lived in;
I can remember several times when we ended of the work day sharing boiler makers, I still have a warm spot in my heart for them.

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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#8 Post by senorgrand » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:31 pm

I think the only thing this polling shows that it matters what you call a thing, rather than what that thing actually is.

Banning "Assault Weapons" is much easier than "sporting arms".

Healthcare is complex and nuianced and broken. We need to have a conversation about it before you can ask people to weigh in on it.

Of course, instead of talking about healthcare, we could ban things and impeach people.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#9 Post by highdesert » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:06 pm

senorgrand wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:31 pm
Healthcare is complex and nuianced and broken.
AMEN This poll just reinforced the earlier Kaiser Family Foundation poll. Even the ACA has options, there are Gold, Silver and Bronze plans and each one offers specified benefits. Part D to Medicare which is drug coverage was enacted in W's administration and is not the best, it works for me but I take few medications. Big Pharma needs to be controlled or we could always nationalize it.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#10 Post by K9s » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:42 pm

I think that is why I prefer Bernie. I don't see him running around banning guns and scoring political points if he were to become POTUS. I know where he stands and anti-2A isn't in his top ten. Healthcare is in his top ten and for good reasons.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#11 Post by senorgrand » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:50 pm

K9s wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:42 pm
I think that is why I prefer Bernie. I don't see him running around banning guns and scoring political points if he were to become POTUS. I know where he stands and anti-2A isn't in his top ten. Healthcare is in his top ten and for good reasons.
He wouldn't veto any anti 2a legislation, if were to get past the senate
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#12 Post by Greengunner » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:37 pm

Public option is the way. Public option is passable. We "almost" had it. A public option can lead to Medicare for all. Nothing else can.

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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#13 Post by K9s » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm

I'll take partial victories. Public option. Lower medicare age to 55. All of the above.

No family separation or dead refugees in custody is a low bar, but it would be a victory, too.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#14 Post by NegativeApproach » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:31 pm

Biden's plan is "medicare for all that can afford it".

We have the most expensive health care in the world, and we receive some pretty sub-par care for it on average. Yes, we have great high end care for people who have platinum health care insurance or who can pay tons out of pocket, but the day-to-day stuff we have is pretty horrible. Take the profit incentive out of health care entirely, that's the only way to fix the completely broken system.

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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#15 Post by K9s » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:52 am

I rarely hear of anyone with less than a million bucks who "loves" their health insurance.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#16 Post by Wino » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:55 am

K9s wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:52 am
I rarely hear of anyone with less than a million bucks who "loves" their health insurance.
Ahem.................I love my Medicare/Supplemental and I'm nowhere near a millionaire. :thumbup: Too bad not everyone has the same. Medicare for all is doable - just takes time, good planning and money. It would be better than the current situation and less expensive for individuals, corporations, insurance companies and the economy. Returning all health care to non-profits would be a good start - Is that too socialist??

I see health insurers and guv working together same as what I have now. You'd think corporations would love dumping having to deal with health insurance and it's cost, not to mention the savings.

As to people hating their insurance - what's not to hate with the lack of coverage, high deductibles and immense cost, not to mention insurers getting between one and their medical care providers - the true "death panels" Tea Baggers said would happen with ACA has been going on for beau coup years or as long as I can remember.

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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#17 Post by shinzen » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am

K9s wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:27 pm
I'll take partial victories. Public option. Lower medicare age to 55. All of the above.

No family separation or dead refugees in custody is a low bar, but it would be a victory, too.
Yeah, by immediately passing the age change of Medicare and allowing a buy into it for the rest of us, the road is paved. Sanders plan to lower the eligibility age over time is the right way to approach it, particularly if coupled with a public option in the interim.

As to why people don't like it, they are scared, and it's nuanced. Not realizing that they are paying more today that they would under the new plan, and that it's in the form of taxes is an easy way to gin up fear by the republicans, as they've been doing for decades, as taxes have been pitched as the ultimate evil by them every single election cycle.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#18 Post by highdesert » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:00 am

Wino wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:55 am
K9s wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:52 am
I rarely hear of anyone with less than a million bucks who "loves" their health insurance.
Ahem.................I love my Medicare/Supplemental and I'm nowhere near a millionaire. :thumbup: Too bad not everyone has the same. Medicare for all is doable - just takes time, good planning and money. It would be better than the current situation and less expensive for individuals, corporations, insurance companies and the economy. Returning all health care to non-profits would be a good start - Is that too socialist??

I see health insurers and guv working together same as what I have now. You'd think corporations would love dumping having to deal with health insurance and it's cost, not to mention the savings.

As to people hating their insurance - what's not to hate with the lack of coverage, high deductibles and immense cost, not to mention insurers getting between one and their medical care providers - the true "death panels" Tea Baggers said would happen with ACA has been going on for beau coup years or as long as I can remember.

FDT/ABT
I'm also happy with the Medicare plan that I have, I just hate the insurance carrier that administers it. I agree health insurance carriers should be non-profits. I agree with dropping the age of Medicare, as I mentioned it also pumps healthier people into the Medicare system which helps reduce costs. And with it bring health insurance companies under the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMMS), not state insurance commissioners. States would still regulate auto, property....insurance carriers just not health care ones. And make CMMS an independent agency not part of HHS so politics wouldn't interfere like Trump's appointee is doing right now.

Change makes people very nervous especially since Trump lied to people about his "better and cheaper" health care programs. Health care is a huge issue and as a policy wonk I love listening to debates on policy, but for most people it puts them to sleep. Best to talk separate issues like drug costs, access to health care (doctors, hospitals, specialist care...).
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#19 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:44 pm

Marlene wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:57 pm
Americans can’t math and don’t understand how insurance works, let alone medicine. Their feelings matter more than facts in policy making. Even the poll itself is unclear about the difference between “public option” and “Medicare for all”.

Doesn’t matter which we get as long as we get one of them. Any public option that isn’t designed expressly to fail will drive all but the most esoteric supplemental private insurance out of business quickly enough.
Marlene you are so correct. I was in healthcare as an EMT then a RN for 40+ years. I know how the system operates (pun intended) It doesn’t work all that well. I have explained to intelligent people how insurances works because they have no idea about risk pools and other factors that cause the insurance to charge more and pay less. Also they didn’t know how much the insurance company takes a a percentage in overhead and administrative cost. Also how little they pay the hospitals and doctors. Last time I look insurance companies took from 11% up to 20% administrative cost from the policy holders Medicare was about 1.4% administrative cost. Insurance companies in Texas got so bad about not paying in a timely fashion the state had to step in and say they had to pay what they owed to hospital and doctors within 120 days. The insurance companies now hold there money till the last day then pay. When I worked in home health we could bill Medicare electronically and get payment with in three days. Since everybody now bills trough computer systems why does it take insurance companies to pay at 120 days when Medicare pays in three days? Everybody bills from the same ICD 10 codes. Before I retired we were using ICD 9 codes.

A good analogy of the current healthcare billing system is like Heller’s Catch -22 Milo Minderbender and the Syndicate crossed with M*A*S*H for the health side.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#20 Post by K9s » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:20 pm

Wino wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:55 am
K9s wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:52 am
I rarely hear of anyone with less than a million bucks who "loves" their health insurance.
Ahem.................I love my Medicare/Supplemental and I'm nowhere near a millionaire. :thumbup: Too bad not everyone has the same. Medicare for all is doable - just takes time, good planning and money. It would be better than the current situation and less expensive for individuals, corporations, insurance companies and the economy. Returning all health care to non-profits would be a good start - Is that too socialist??

I see health insurers and guv working together same as what I have now. You'd think corporations would love dumping having to deal with health insurance and it's cost, not to mention the savings.

As to people hating their insurance - what's not to hate with the lack of coverage, high deductibles and immense cost, not to mention insurers getting between one and their medical care providers - the true "death panels" Tea Baggers said would happen with ACA has been going on for beau coup years or as long as I can remember.

FDT/ABT
Private insurance, I meant. The non-Medicare. Medicare is very popular with patients by comparison. Medicaid is difficult because so few physicians offices allow Medicaid recipients as patients (this might be different in blue states with Medicaid expansion).
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#21 Post by K9s » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 pm

TrueTexan wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:44 pm
Marlene wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:57 pm
Americans can’t math and don’t understand how insurance works, let alone medicine. Their feelings matter more than facts in policy making. Even the poll itself is unclear about the difference between “public option” and “Medicare for all”.

Doesn’t matter which we get as long as we get one of them. Any public option that isn’t designed expressly to fail will drive all but the most esoteric supplemental private insurance out of business quickly enough.
Marlene you are so correct. I was in healthcare as an EMT then a RN for 40+ years. I know how the system operates (pun intended) It doesn’t work all that well. I have explained to intelligent people how insurances works because they have no idea about risk pools and other factors that cause the insurance to charge more and pay less. Also they didn’t know how much the insurance company takes a a percentage in overhead and administrative cost. Also how little they pay the hospitals and doctors. Last time I look insurance companies took from 11% up to 20% administrative cost from the policy holders Medicare was about 1.4% administrative cost. Insurance companies in Texas got so bad about not paying in a timely fashion the state had to step in and say they had to pay what they owed to hospital and doctors within 120 days. The insurance companies now hold there money till the last day then pay. When I worked in home health we could bill Medicare electronically and get payment with in three days. Since everybody now bills trough computer systems why does it take insurance companies to pay at 120 days when Medicare pays in three days? Everybody bills from the same ICD 10 codes. Before I retired we were using ICD 9 codes.

A good analogy of the current healthcare billing system is like Heller’s Catch -22 Milo Minderbender and the Syndicate crossed with M*A*S*H for the health side.
People who don't work in healthcare actually don't believe me when I tell them how much physicians and hospitals actually get paid for procedures. And, of course, how everyone has to fight for payment from insurance companies. Overhead, junkets, advertising, lobbying, lawyers, and big bonuses take a toll on those poor insurance company executives.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#22 Post by Wino » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:41 pm

K9s wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:20 pm
Wino wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:55 am
K9s wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:52 am
I rarely hear of anyone with less than a million bucks who "loves" their health insurance.
Ahem.................I love my Medicare/Supplemental and I'm nowhere near a millionaire. :thumbup: Too bad not everyone has the same. Medicare for all is doable - just takes time, good planning and money. It would be better than the current situation and less expensive for individuals, corporations, insurance companies and the economy. Returning all health care to non-profits would be a good start - Is that too socialist??

I see health insurers and guv working together same as what I have now. You'd think corporations would love dumping having to deal with health insurance and it's cost, not to mention the savings.

As to people hating their insurance - what's not to hate with the lack of coverage, high deductibles and immense cost, not to mention insurers getting between one and their medical care providers - the true "death panels" Tea Baggers said would happen with ACA has been going on for beau coup years or as long as I can remember.

FDT/ABT
Private insurance, I meant. The non-Medicare. Medicare is very popular with patients by comparison. Medicaid is difficult because so few physicians offices allow Medicaid recipients as patients (this might be different in blue states with Medicaid expansion).
I knew what you meant, thus my thumbs up smiley. As for Medicaid, yeah, Texas in their infinite wisdom passed up on expansion and left money on the table for others - we're run by dumbfuckistanies !!
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#23 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:01 pm

Wino wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:41 pm

I knew what you meant, thus my thumbs up smiley. As for Medicaid, yeah, Texas in their infinite wisdom passed up on expansion and left money on the table for others - we're run by dumbfuckistanies !!
No we’re run by the I got mine sewed up so screw you. My wife is considered a state employee in higher education. Her medical insurance is paid for by the state I was on her policy and we paid for that. . When I became able to get Medicare I check everything out. I went on Medicare with a supplement F policy no co-pay. I saved $100 a month in medical insurance and no deductible.
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Re: "Medicare For All Isn’t That Popular — Even Among Democrats"

#24 Post by ErikO » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:29 pm

After all the money rolling in from Centene, its holdings (HealthNet, etc), Kaiser Permanente and every other insurance/provider why would the DNC want to turn off that flow of wealth? How else will newly minted Not Trump Senators become millionaires like EVERY SINGLE OTHER SENATOR?
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