I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410?

Reviews and discussion of shotgun ammo.

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I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410?

#1 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:41 am

I'm always concerned about home defense, but also over-penetration being dangerous to family, friends and pets. I've got Speer Gold Dot and equiv Sig 9mm 124 JHP primarily for that but I'm wondering if 410 shotgun shells in a short-barreled pump (but still NJ legal) and / or a revolver like the S&W Governor or Taurus Judge would be a better choice? I"m also concerned about a "system" that my wife doesn't have to figure out in an emergency: Just point and shoot!

Then there's WHICH load to get. I've been told bird shot can be stopped by a pizza box, but a slug is no better than a 9mm. I've heard about 410 with 4 pellets but haven't been able to figure out of that's best, should it be steel? Will ranges allow lead? What is Bismuth?

Very confusing and hard to find info!

I have figured out the difference between .45 ACP and .45 Colt (aka .45 long Colt), which the 2 handguns take. Is there a shotgun that takes all 3 as well? I'm always a proponent of minimum types of ammo to keep.

I welcome any and all ideas on it!
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#2 Post by atxgunguy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:21 am

YankeeTarheel wrote:I'm always concerned about home defense, but also over-penetration being dangerous to family, friends and pets. I've got Speer Gold Dot and equiv Sig 9mm 124 JHP primarily for that but I'm wondering if 410 shotgun shells in a short-barreled pump (but still NJ legal) and / or a revolver like the S&W Governor or Taurus Judge would be a better choice? I"m also concerned about a "system" that my wife doesn't have to figure out in an emergency: Just point and shoot!

Then there's WHICH load to get. I've been told bird shot can be stopped by a pizza box, but a slug is no better than a 9mm. I've heard about 410 with 4 pellets but haven't been able to figure out of that's best, should it be steel? Will ranges allow lead? What is Bismuth?

Very confusing and hard to find info!

I have figured out the difference between .45 ACP and .45 Colt (aka .45 long Colt), which the 2 handguns take. Is there a shotgun that takes all 3 as well? I'm always a proponent of minimum types of ammo to keep.

I welcome any and all ideas on it!
410 is a fine choice for home defense.

Ranges (especially) indoor generally will not allow shot shells. Allowing lead is more of a YMMV. I know it's verboten in many places. Most ranges will call out on their websites whether or not either of the above are permitted.

Bismuth is generally considered the "non-toxic" alternative to lead shot. I'm sure our California folks can speak more on the subject.

The Judge and the (more expensive) S&W Governor will take .410 2 1/2" shotshells, .45 ACP or .45 Colt.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/model-governor-0

Also note, the Governor is a 6-shot and will take readily available moon-clips for 45ACP.

Sootch00 has a good video:

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I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410?

#3 Post by Bucolic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:41 am

As I have reported before, we have a Mossberg 500 pump in .410 bore with an 18 inch barrel, a light and a laser. I think of it as 40% of a 12 gauge. The popularity of the Judge and the Governor has motivated a number of interesting self defense rounds. Some are odd, like the PDX rounds that contain brass disks and BBs. Slugs are also available. They have significantly more mass than a 9mm handgun round and probably higher muzzle velocity.

I can’t speak about overpenetration issues since I have no nearby neighbors to speak of so I tend not to worry about it. Since I am primarily concerned about varmints getting after the poultry and, less probably, human interlopers, I keep the gun loaded with 00 buck. The 2.5 inch Remington “Ultimate Self Defense” shells give you 4 pellets of .33 caliber lead with a claimed muzzle velocity of 1300 fps. These should suffice for coyotes and raccoons etc.

I would not advocate birdshot unless you are being attached by those nefarious Jersey pigeons. . Not enough punch. You might look at the Winchester 3 inch PDX rounds. They contain 4 plated disks and 16 plated BBS at velocity of 750 fps. Probably only suitable for short range. Not sure about penetration through walls but I assume less than buckshot.

People ask why I have a laser on a shotgun. They need to pattern their gun at 20 feet or so. The spread of double or triple ought buck at that distance is only a couple inches at best. You need to aim. Even if the situation involves a rabid raccoon, it would be stressful and I wiould need all the help I can get.

In short, for some self defense applications, I think a .410 certainly deserves consideration. Note that I have no experience with the .410 revolvers. The Klown or others may have relevant experience with them.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#4 Post by Hiker » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:22 am

This video shows a LEO being attacked by a nut with a Judge. The video never actually says what kind of ammo is used, except that it's .410.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#5 Post by senorgrand » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:33 pm

410 ammo is crazy expensive. be sure to budget for that.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#6 Post by atxgunguy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm

FWIW and near as I can tell, the Mossberg Shockwave is legal is NJ.....at this moment at least.

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

Along with 12ga. they just expanded the line to 20ga. which would be much milder and you'd get 5 shots of 20ga instead of 410.

20ga shells are much more readily available and just as cheap as 12ga.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#7 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:01 pm

Thanks everyone:
Shotguns must have at least an 18" barrel, unlike rifles which must have at least a 16" barrel, and I also believe they must have a stock, not a pistol grip like that.

So I don't think it's legal in NJ.

Firing on a LEO is just fucking extreme jack-ass-ery. "Assault on a Peace Officer with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury." Lucky to get no more than 30 years for that.

I would not use such a revolver outside the house--strictly where you want to minimize the chance it goes through walls and kills your kid.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#8 Post by atxgunguy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:06 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:Thanks everyone:
Shotguns must have at least an 18" barrel, unlike rifles which must have at least a 16" barrel, and I also believe they must have a stock, not a pistol grip like that.

So I don't think it's legal in NJ.

Firing on a LEO is just fucking extreme jack-ass-ery. "Assault on a Peace Officer with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury." Lucky to get no more than 30 years for that.

I would not use such a revolver outside the house--strictly where you want to minimize the chance it goes through walls and kills your kid.
The Shockwave isn't a shotgun, or as it is defined by ATF.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/mossbe ... z4xg4Y8UeY

Given what I know about NJ, you probably just want to steer clear. :wavecry:
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#9 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:10 pm

atxgunguy wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:Thanks everyone:
Shotguns must have at least an 18" barrel, unlike rifles which must have at least a 16" barrel, and I also believe they must have a stock, not a pistol grip like that.

So I don't think it's legal in NJ.

Firing on a LEO is just fucking extreme jack-ass-ery. "Assault on a Peace Officer with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, inflicting serious injury." Lucky to get no more than 30 years for that.

I would not use such a revolver outside the house--strictly where you want to minimize the chance it goes through walls and kills your kid.
The Shockwave isn't a shotgun, or as it is defined by ATF.

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/mossbe ... z4xg4Y8UeY

Given what I know about NJ, you probably just want to steer clear. :wavecry:
The FFLs here are pretty good at knowing the rules, the limits and what's acceptable. Surprisingly, the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 is NJ legal, because it's not a folding stock and you can't fire it when it's folded. The adjustable stock on the Gen 2 version skins by because you can't adjust it on the fly, but must dis-assemble the bolt mechanism to do it. They only have to pin the cap on the threaded barrel.
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I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410?

#10 Post by Bucolic » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:28 pm

Word of warning that may not apply to you.

My .410 had a pistol grip and I could not hit shit with it outside of bad breath distance. I fear the Shockwave would be similar, again, maybe just for me. I replaced the pistol grip with a stock with a short length of pull and things got much better. Shooting from the hip may look cool but it’s harder than it looks to be accurate. The solid angle of the pattern is way less than 4 pi.


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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#11 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:40 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:I'm always concerned about home defense, but also over-penetration being dangerous to family

I"m also concerned about a "system" that my wife doesn't have to figure out in an emergency: Just point and shoot!
Yankee,

I and others have presented some information on over penetration recently in other threads. Counter intuitively, the 5.56/.223 has been shown to over penetrate less than either handgun or shotgun rounds. If your primary concern is over penetration, do some more homework before landing on a .410.

If you're concern is "point and shoot," stay well away from a handgun. Any rifle pattern will be easier to aim than a handgun and provide better results with less recoil. Red dots make it pretty straight forward to learn how to aim (put the red dot on the thing you want to destroy--no sight alignment necessary). Contrary to popular opinion on the internets, I've found shotguns take just as much aiming as rifles.

The judge would take even more practice aiming, as Bucolic says. The judge would lose the ballistic advantage of a .410 due to the short barrel--sort of like a really cool hand cannon with one hell of an explosion that can't hit shit. Not that I'm discouraging you. :)

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#12 Post by senorgrand » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:03 pm

Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#13 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:37 pm

featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:I'm always concerned about home defense, but also over-penetration being dangerous to family

I"m also concerned about a "system" that my wife doesn't have to figure out in an emergency: Just point and shoot!
Yankee,

I and others have presented some information on over penetration recently in other threads. Counter intuitively, the 5.56/.223 has been shown to over penetrate less than either handgun or shotgun rounds. If your primary concern is over penetration, do some more homework before landing on a .410.

If you're concern is "point and shoot," stay well away from a handgun. Any rifle pattern will be easier to aim than a handgun and provide better results with less recoil. Red dots make it pretty straight forward to learn how to aim (put the red dot on the thing you want to destroy--no sight alignment necessary). Contrary to popular opinion on the internets, I've found shotguns take just as much aiming as rifles.

The judge would take even more practice aiming, as Bucolic says. The judge would lose the ballistic advantage of a .410 due to the short barrel--sort of like a really cool hand cannon with one hell of an explosion that can't hit shit. Not that I'm discouraging you. :)
This is great advice and I thank you. I've long believed you can ALWAYS do more homework, on whatever it is. I don't like to make impulse buys that require lots of money!

And if the Judge, or, more importantly the Governor, turn out to NOT do what I want, then I'll simply drop the idea. I do believe a friend has one but he keeps it somewhere in Florida I haven't ever been. I'm not sold on the idea and am cooling down, rapidly. I keep thinking a short shotgun (ie, the 18" minimum here in NJ) would be a good choice, but I don't know what gauge.

When I built a home theater (not the seating shit, but the audio and vid system) I did it for 1/3 the price I was quoted and it had double the capabilities--because I did my homework. My wife's rule "It better not be ugly!" It's not...it was the TV for it that I destroyed (not deliberately) last Thursday--that bad day when so many discovered what "Orangeburg" sewer pipe is. My point is: Thanks for saying "There's more to it--watch for it!"
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#14 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:44 pm

senorgrand wrote:Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
I do have 2 carbines, both 9mm. One's the Kel-Tec, the other's a Cx4. I made sure to get both set up for Beretta 92fs magazines (the only one they have in common). I thought SERIOUSLY about the 92fs pistol as well, for just that reason. But while I liked it, I liked the VP9 much more.

Had Beretta designed the new APX to use the 92fs mag as well, I probably would have gotten that instead of the Sig P320. Why the hell can't/won't the makers standardize 9mm magazines?
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#15 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:22 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
senorgrand wrote:Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
I do have 2 carbines, both 9mm. One's the Kel-Tec, the other's a Cx4. I made sure to get both set up for Beretta 92fs magazines (the only one they have in common). I thought SERIOUSLY about the 92fs pistol as well, for just that reason. But while I liked it, I liked the VP9 much more.

Had Beretta designed the new APX to use the 92fs mag as well, I probably would have gotten that instead of the Sig P320. Why the hell can't/won't the makers standardize 9mm magazines?
Based on what you have, throw a red dot on the Cx4, load it with quality hollow points and call it good. That's a fine carbine, from what I've read, and I would have one if the California overlords allowed it.

Shotguns are great defensive tools but have a few deficiencies. They have a substantial recoil, they have a (relatively) limited capacity, are difficult to reload and somewhat cumbersome/heavy. Compared to an AR, Mini-15 or similar that can be reloaded by magazine, have 30 rounds on tap (jurisdiction dependent) very light recoil and quite handy. Consider also and in full disclosure, I have a Remington 1100 20 gauge just for the fun of it (although it would be perfect if you just needed to sit and cover a doorway). ;)

Most likely, having more than 5 rounds on tap will never be an issue. Most likely, you'll never need any weapon for home defense. So really, it's all about risk assessment and what/where you're willing to compromise. I think the most important parts are that you've recognized it might be a good idea to defend one's castle should the night demand it, thought it through and gotten some practice in.

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#16 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:47 pm

featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
senorgrand wrote:Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
I do have 2 carbines, both 9mm. One's the Kel-Tec, the other's a Cx4. I made sure to get both set up for Beretta 92fs magazines (the only one they have in common). I thought SERIOUSLY about the 92fs pistol as well, for just that reason. But while I liked it, I liked the VP9 much more.

Had Beretta designed the new APX to use the 92fs mag as well, I probably would have gotten that instead of the Sig P320. Why the hell can't/won't the makers standardize 9mm magazines?
Based on what you have, throw a red dot on the Cx4, load it with quality hollow points and call it good. That's a fine carbine, from what I've read, and I would have one if the California overlords allowed it.

Shotguns are great defensive tools but have a few deficiencies. They have a substantial recoil, they have a (relatively) limited capacity, are difficult to reload and somewhat cumbersome/heavy. Compared to an AR, Mini-15 or similar that can be reloaded by magazine, have 30 rounds on tap (jurisdiction dependent) very light recoil and quite handy. Consider also and in full disclosure, I have a Remington 1100 20 gauge just for the fun of it (although it would be perfect if you just needed to sit and cover a doorway). ;)

Most likely, having more than 5 rounds on tap will never be an issue. Most likely, you'll never need any weapon for home defense. So really, it's all about risk assessment and what/where you're willing to compromise. I think the most important parts are that you've recognized it might be a good idea to defend one's castle should the night demand it, thought it through and gotten some practice in.
:surrender: I surrender! LOL! I DO have a red dot on the CX4, and I keep 2 mags loaded with Speer Goldpoint and Sig V-Crown 124 JHP in the rifle safe. The Red dot's just a Bushnell TRS-25, a little clunky to turn on, and I still don't have it "tuned" quite the way I think I want it.

(PS: I hope I never have to use it or the hand guns for home defense, or shooting anything living)
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#17 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:59 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: :surrender: I surrender!
:lol:

Sorry to be verbose! I just don't get much opportunity to geek out on guns--still in the closet, you know? I like talking about them but most of my friends and colleagues would disown me if they knew I was a gun guy (I have precious few that know my secret).

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#18 Post by zzrguy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:27 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
senorgrand wrote:Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
I do have 2 carbines, both 9mm. One's the Kel-Tec, the other's a Cx4. I made sure to get both set up for Beretta 92fs magazines (the only one they have in common). I thought SERIOUSLY about the 92fs pistol as well, for just that reason. But while I liked it, I liked the VP9 much more.

Had Beretta designed the new APX to use the 92fs mag as well, I probably would have gotten that instead of the Sig P320. Why the hell can't/won't the makers standardize 9mm magazines?
I would recommend a 20ga over a 410 and I would also suggest you get the wood stocks they add a little weight which will soak up some of the recoil. As for ammo I like Turkey loads the wad keeps the shot together longer then birdshot so it will transfer it energy better.
Let get real the range your talk in you house anything coming out of a shotgun is going to do the job.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#19 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:25 pm

featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote: :surrender: I surrender!
:lol:

Sorry to be verbose! I just don't get much opportunity to geek out on guns--still in the closet, you know? I like talking about them but most of my friends and colleagues would disown me if they knew I was a gun guy (I have precious few that know my secret).

Oh, no! I didn't mean it THAT way at all! I intended it as a complement! I meant I surrender to an excellent argument I couldn't break!
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#20 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:27 pm

zzrguy wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
senorgrand wrote:Personally, I'd rather have that 9mm carbine than a 410 for home defense. 15 rounds of 9mm coming out of a 16" barrel is much better than say 6 or 8 shells coming from a 410.
I do have 2 carbines, both 9mm. One's the Kel-Tec, the other's a Cx4. I made sure to get both set up for Beretta 92fs magazines (the only one they have in common). I thought SERIOUSLY about the 92fs pistol as well, for just that reason. But while I liked it, I liked the VP9 much more.

Had Beretta designed the new APX to use the 92fs mag as well, I probably would have gotten that instead of the Sig P320. Why the hell can't/won't the makers standardize 9mm magazines?
I would recommend a 20ga over a 410 and I would also suggest you get the wood stocks they add a little weight which will soak up some of the recoil. As for ammo I like Turkey loads the wad keeps the shot together longer then birdshot so it will transfer it energy better.
Let get real the range your talk in you house anything coming out of a shotgun is going to do the job.
A wise man once said " make sure to bring enough gun."
Thanks, zzrguy. However, I've got to ask:
What does: "Let get real the range your talk in you house anything coming out of a shotgun is going to do the job." mean? :see_stars:
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#21 Post by zzrguy » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:53 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Thanks, zzrguy. However, I've got to ask:
What does: "Let get real the range your talk in you house anything coming out of a shotgun is going to do the job." mean? :see_stars:
Ok we're talking about shooting in a house. How long is your longest shot going to be. Let's say 30ft/10yds 1oz of birdshot is going to still be pretty much a tight ball of shot traveling at 1000+ fps so if you hit center mass that body is going down hit them in a limb that limb is out of commission unless they are hopped up on drugs the fight is over. Now birdshot not going to hit as hard as Turkey load and not as hard as buckshot non will hot as hard as a slug but the slug may leave you house the buckshot will go threw a interior wall or two turkey may as well. But birdshot will loss alot of it energy in the wall.

There was a nice video on YouTube where they shot up some walls from point blank to 10yds with OOO, Birdshot, and slug.
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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#22 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:11 pm

zzrguy wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote: Thanks, zzrguy. However, I've got to ask:
What does: "Let get real the range your talk in you house anything coming out of a shotgun is going to do the job." mean? :see_stars:
Ok we're talking about shooting in a house. How long is your longest shot going to be. Let's say 30ft/10yds 1oz of birdshot is going to still be pretty much a tight ball of shot traveling at 1000+ fps so if you hit center mass that body is going down hit them in a limb that limb is out of commission unless they are hopped up on drugs the fight is over. Now birdshot not going to hit as hard as Turkey load and not as hard as buckshot non will hot as hard as a slug but the slug may leave you house the buckshot will go threw a interior wall or two turkey may as well. But birdshot will loss alot of it energy in the wall.

There was a nice video on YouTube where they shot up some walls from point blank to 10yds with OOO, Birdshot, and slug.
Thanks. Now I understand. I may just stick with my 9mm handguns and PCCs. The VP9 can be gotten out of its safe an loaded in just seconds.
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#23 Post by featureless » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:47 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote: :surrender: I surrender!
:lol:

Sorry to be verbose! I just don't get much opportunity to geek out on guns--still in the closet, you know? I like talking about them but most of my friends and colleagues would disown me if they knew I was a gun guy (I have precious few that know my secret).

Oh, no! I didn't mean it THAT way at all! I intended it as a complement! I meant I surrender to an excellent argument I couldn't break!
I got ya, just had realized I'd also hit you with a wide ranging wall of text. :)

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#24 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:14 pm

featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote:
featureless wrote:
YankeeTarheel wrote: :surrender: I surrender!
:lol:

Sorry to be verbose! I just don't get much opportunity to geek out on guns--still in the closet, you know? I like talking about them but most of my friends and colleagues would disown me if they knew I was a gun guy (I have precious few that know my secret).

Oh, no! I didn't mean it THAT way at all! I intended it as a complement! I meant I surrender to an excellent argument I couldn't break!
I got ya, just had realized I'd also hit you with a wide ranging wall of text. :)
No problem! I'm not a Red Hat. I know how to read....and even enjoy it! My wife got stuck in traffic tonight and had me read her a company report she needed to study, for about 45 minutes till she made it home and said "Honey, I'm in the driveway" Gotta love that woman! :love: :love: :love: :love:
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: I don't know Jack about Shotguns or Shotgun Ammo, so 410

#25 Post by K9s » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:33 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Thanks. Now I understand. I may just stick with my 9mm handguns and PCCs. The VP9 can be gotten out of its safe an loaded in just seconds.
I sorta went through the shotgun vs PCC thing myself recently. I thought I should have a shotgun but have two PCCs. I really like the shotgun (Mossberg 930), but it really made me realize that the PCC is probably a better tool for my situation. If you already have the Sub2k and CX4, you really have no need for a shotgun unless you just really want one.

Best of luck in your quest!

EDIT: I forgot to add the link to 410 Shotgun video from Paul Harrell. He has a lot of really good videos on shotguns.

.410 Shotgun for Home Defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQD77feU-rY

Shotguns don't suck for Home Defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
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