Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

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Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#1 Post by Inquisitor » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:12 pm

Single shot, 12ga

Unsure how old, possible as old as 1900.

Any idea if this is BP only or smokeless?
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#2 Post by Fukshot » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:18 pm

Is it a H&A or a Forehand and Wadsworth?

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#3 Post by senorgrand » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:21 pm

If you think it's turn of the century and it isn't marked "smokeless", I wouldn't use anything but black powder. But FS knows more than me.

BTW, I love the grip of the stock and this old gun has grown a great color to her!
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#4 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:41 am

Fukshot wrote:Is it a H&A or a Forehand and Wadsworth?
H&A

Forehand is in quotes after the company name.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#5 Post by wlewisiii » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:09 am

Look at the water table & under the barrel for proof marks. Take some pictures of what you find.

If it isn't a Damascus barrel, it probably was made for smokeless by that time. Also be sure to check how long the chambers are - they might be 2 1/2" for example. http://www.rstshells.com/ makes ammo specifically to be gentle on older shotties.
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#6 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:18 pm

wlewisiii wrote:Look at the water table & under the barrel for proof marks. Take some pictures of what you find.

If it isn't a Damascus barrel, it probably was made for smokeless by that time. Also be sure to check how long the chambers are - they might be 2 1/2" for example. http://www.rstshells.com/ makes ammo specifically to be gentle on older shotties.

Stoopid question, how can I tell if Damascus?

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#7 Post by wlewisiii » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:22 pm

Inquisitor wrote:
wlewisiii wrote:Look at the water table & under the barrel for proof marks. Take some pictures of what you find.

If it isn't a Damascus barrel, it probably was made for smokeless by that time. Also be sure to check how long the chambers are - they might be 2 1/2" for example. http://www.rstshells.com/ makes ammo specifically to be gentle on older shotties.

Stoopid question, how can I tell if Damascus?
https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknow ... m/www/home has lots of info on those beautiful but not very strong barrels.
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#8 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:55 pm

wlewisiii wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:
wlewisiii wrote:Look at the water table & under the barrel for proof marks. Take some pictures of what you find.

If it isn't a Damascus barrel, it probably was made for smokeless by that time. Also be sure to check how long the chambers are - they might be 2 1/2" for example. http://www.rstshells.com/ makes ammo specifically to be gentle on older shotties.

Stoopid question, how can I tell if Damascus?
https://sites.google.com/a/damascusknow ... m/www/home has lots of info on those beautiful but not very strong barrels.
This barrel looks nothing like those.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#9 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:00 pm

Actually now not sure. Underneath the patina, it looks mottled...

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#10 Post by wlewisiii » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:24 pm

Inquisitor wrote:Actually now not sure. Underneath the patina, it looks mottled...

Think you can get a close up picture of what it looks like? It is pretty different from "fluid steel" (that's what Parker called their early non-damascus barrels) so if it looks like it, it's a good chance that it is. Got any good gunsmiths near you?

Be a good excuse to have FS teach you how to load holy black shotshells :D
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#11 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:03 pm

wlewisiii wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:Actually now not sure. Underneath the patina, it looks mottled...

Think you can get a close up picture of what it looks like? It is pretty different from "fluid steel" (that's what Parker called their early non-damascus barrels) so if it looks like it, it's a good chance that it is. Got any good gunsmiths near you?

Be a good excuse to have FS teach you how to load holy black shotshells :D
Sounds like until I am sure, that's my only option for shooting it.

Close ups are hard, neither the iPhone nor google glass seem to be suited for that close. The mottling is subtle, through the patina, but there. So it's so very unclear to me. Will look for a smith.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#12 Post by lsj74 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:33 am

I have one of those and if I remember it right Hopkins and Allen went out of business in 1903.

EDIT.
After about a minute of research I found out I was wrong. It was 1916 that they went bankrupt.
Also http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9
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The stock was repaired at some point and is missing the buttplate.
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#13 Post by lsj74 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:47 am

The last ones... Promise.
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#14 Post by Inquisitor » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:57 am

Looks identical to mine.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#15 Post by Fukshot » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:40 am

From afar, I'm gonna say BP or light smokeless loads designed for old guns.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#16 Post by Inquisitor » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:06 am

I hadn't thought of cowboy loads...

IF I were to load shotshells, primer, gear suggestions?

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#17 Post by wlewisiii » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:27 am

Inquisitor wrote:I hadn't thought of cowboy loads...

IF I were to load shotshells, primer, gear suggestions?
How much do you think you might load? Lee makes a cheap press but you'll not want to be loading flats with it. Good for a hunter who maybe shoots trap once or twice a year.

Next step up is the MEC 600 Jr. which is 3x the price but much nicer. It's rated at 6 to 8 boxes an hour, good enough for a once a week trap shooter.

Both are at Midway USA. I don't know if either can do 2 1/2" if that's what your shotgun is chambered for.

Otherwise, generic 12 g. hulls & plastic wads, generic shotgun primers, #8 lead shot & Unique powder.

Nice slideshow on the topic here: http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_st ... shell.aspx

I need to get a 16 gauge press to really use my Ithaca.
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#18 Post by whitey » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:34 am

Inquisitor wrote:I hadn't thought of cowboy loads...

IF I were to load shotshells, primer, gear suggestions?
I have a 12 ga press along with goodies I can let go of for a fair price.
*DISCLAIMER* This post may have been made from a barstool.

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#19 Post by Inquisitor » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:35 am

In for a penny...

Rumour has it I will buy anything :)

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#20 Post by whitey » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:41 am

Inquisitor wrote:In for a penny...

Rumour has it I will buy anything :)

Really? Hadn't noticed. :roflmao:
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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#21 Post by Inquisitor » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:53 pm

So, I never sorted out this shotgun, so I listed on Armslist, unless someone here is interested?

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Re: Hopkins and Allen "Forehand"

#22 Post by Inquisitor » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Just had a smith look at it, he thinks it is damascus but said light target loads with #6 or#7 shot would be fine.

That jive with the group?


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