Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place?

Discussion related to Suppressors, AOWs, Destructive Devices, and other NFA items

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#26 Post by DispositionMatrix » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:34 am

JerseyDog wrote: So why would any law abiding sportsman, gun enthusiast, or home defender for that matter want a suppressor? Look I love guns, I love shooting, I have no problem living in a country with a robust 2nd ammendment. But working in law enforcement the idea of people wanting to hide their shot makes my blood run cold.
Not so much for home defense. Hiding the shot is not the goal. Protecting the ears, not scaring every animal within two miles, and fun with heavy and slower rounds are the reasons.
JerseyDog wrote:Guns are loud, really loud. That works great as warning, deterrent, and yes as evidence.
Though I comply with state and federal laws, I would not tailor how I conduct any of my hobbies specifically to suit the whims of law enforcement or provide them with "evidence" of me not committing crimes. Thus I would not opt for gas-powered RC aircraft over quiet electric quadcopters simply because the police might want to be able to hear them. (I fly both, and there is some garbage being spewed at hobbyists about the use of quiet quadcopter "drones" right now.)
JerseyDog wrote:You should never have any need to hide the fact you just operated a deadly weapon.
The you don't need... argument that has been hashed out elsewhere. You don't need a lot of things. Also, a Chevy Volt used to run over a jogger would be a deadly weapon. I suppose Chevy could make it sound like a gun.
JerseyDog wrote:In my mind that's just part and parcel of responsible gun ownership.
You have the option of not using a suppressor.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#27 Post by particleman » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:05 pm

don1960lp wrote:Re: Hunting

I think if I was out in the dense woods I'd want to know if there were others close by shooting. And I'd want others to hear me shooting too.
I don't see any utility in this knowledge. I want to know if there are others close by hunting. I.e. possibly taking a shot. The way I hunt, firing a gun is at the end of the process of hunting. The safety goal should be for everyone in the same woods to know where others are so that we can avoid taking a shot in their direction or having them behind the animal we're shooting at.

By the time anyone takes a shot, the hunting is over for several minutes up to an hour or more. Our ability to communicate and improve the safety of everyone in the woods is pretty much over at that point.

I suspect that if I carry a suppressed rifle into the woods, I'll get this question a lot. Thanks for prompting me to consider how I will answer it.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#28 Post by stl303 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:12 pm

begemot wrote: Would an untrained civilian correctly identify an unsuppressed gunshot? Is it really that useful for law enforcement?
In my experience, not so much.

In the incident last summer where I was walking the dog through a VERY crowded park and shots rang out... I noticed that I was by far the first person with my face in the dirt and it wasn't until someone was bleeding on the ground and the mag empty that other bystanders were screaming and running (and fleeing the park before the cops got there). Hell, I'd half-dialed 911 before most realized what was going down.

Going back about 20 years, I lived in an apartment next to a skeezy dive-bar place and there were shots fired in the parking lot. Called 911, went downstairs and no one was around. Nobody inside knew what was going on until the PoPo started storming in.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#29 Post by stl303 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:31 pm

ErikO wrote:Home defense. ANY gunshot indoors, even a 'subsonic' is REALLY freaking loud. If either myself or my wife need to defend ourselves or our son, I'd prefer to NOT create a potential for tinitus to set in, especially in the 11 year old.

They require us to muffle our cars, trucks and motorcycles. They require hearing protection if we work in noisy environments. They call suppressors 'tools of poachers or assassins'.
and THIS.

Haven't you ever been at an enclosed range with with some jackass tearing lose on his Desert Eagle 50 cal whatever in the booth next to you? Most of the time I go to one I have to double-up ear protection - plugs AND Muffs.

I once made the mistake of trying out a BP percussion cap on an empty chamber in my basement Safe Room, thinking it wouldn't be that different from my cap gun as a kid. Derp. :no:
My already chronic tinnitus went through the roof for several hours, it reverberated through the whole house down the A/C ducts and scared the bejesus out of the wife on the 2nd floor, and to this day the cat won't go near that room.

And that was JUST THE CAP in an enclosed room. Imagine setting off a whole charge in a bedroom or hallway or something in a H-D situation?

Flash-bangs are a thing for a reason.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#30 Post by Modeler » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:00 pm

particleman wrote: I want to legally target shoot and sight in some of my guns on my property without annoying my very nice neighbors.

Discharging a firearm is not illegal where I live, as long as the discharge is "in a safe direction". From my back porch, the property goes down and then up creating a natural berm and I've identified a spot far from the garden where I will dig in some railroad ties to act as a backstop. But if I was to fire an unsuppressed gun, even in that safe direction down into the hillside into a prepared target area, I would scare the living bejesus out of all of my neighbors within several hundred yards. Not my goal. I just want to shoot.
For this reason, almost exactly verbatim. Slightly different topography in my case, but otherwise what he said. I have a .30 suppressor already and an AR is still loud a hell with it on, so loud that I still don't shoot it on my property.

We muffle everything else, why not muffle this?
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#31 Post by LibShooter » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:38 pm

JerseyDog wrote:
Catalyst wrote:And I take issue with how framed your question and how you stated it.
Sorry to offend. I figured I'd try addressing the inevitable confrontation in advance. Didn't work out this way either really. But at least no one has called me Bloomberg yet.
Nah ... you're a closet BLOOMBERG clone. I know these things. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL LOL I'm only kidding. I worked in law enforcement many, many moons ago and I remember that a small number of cops carried an extra piece just in case their department issued side arm malfunctioned at an inopportune time. LOL LOL LOL yeah, right.

I don't mean to sound jaded but I feel certain that the vast majority of people who want a suppressor (popularly, even if erroneously, referred to as a silencer), especially for a hand gun, want one for reasons other than hearing protection or being thoughtful of their neighbor's sensibilities. Like you, I wouldn't ban the purchase of suppressors; however, I'd want law enforcement to know a hell of a lot about the purchasers of these devices.

Guess what, I wouldn't mind owning one myself. LOL LOL LOL

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#32 Post by particleman » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:45 am

LibShooter wrote:I don't mean to sound jaded but I feel certain that the vast majority of people who want a suppressor (popularly, even if erroneously, referred to as a silencer), especially for a hand gun, want one for reasons other than hearing protection or being thoughtful of their neighbor's sensibilities.
So I read this twice, and outside of "having a suppressor would be soooo cool" (which I agree is one motivation of mine), I'm not really coming up with anything. I don't plan to start a career in black ops wet work or even mob/gang hitman (which seemed to be the outside theory of the OP's).

What are some of these "other reasons"? Not offending neighbors, shooting w/o hearing protection, pretty amazingly cool. I honestly have nothing else.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#33 Post by Modeler » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:51 am

How's this: I'll give you the same reason for wanting NFA weapons that I put down on my form 1's and form 4's when I send them to the ATF.

"All legal purposes"

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#34 Post by LibShooter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:57 pm

particleman wrote:
LibShooter wrote:I don't mean to sound jaded but I feel certain that the vast majority of people who want a suppressor (popularly, even if erroneously, referred to as a silencer), especially for a hand gun, want one for reasons other than hearing protection or being thoughtful of their neighbor's sensibilities.
So I read this twice, and outside of "having a suppressor would be soooo cool" (which I agree is one motivation of mine), I'm not really coming up with anything. I don't plan to start a career in black ops wet work or even mob/gang hitman (which seemed to be the outside theory of the OP's).

What are some of these "other reasons"? Not offending neighbors, shooting w/o hearing protection, pretty amazingly cool. I honestly have nothing else.
Try this on ... people who contemplate actually engaging in or who fantasize about engaging in illegal activities, i.e., shooting game illegally or shooting people.

Over the years I've had this conversation about "silencers" many, many times and, although valid reasons, I can't recall anyone who wanted to protect his hearing while on a hunting outing or who wanted to shoot in his back yard and not alarm his neighbors. Tell you what, particleman, the next time you go to the range, casually ask around about the purpose of "silencers" and who might want one. Take care to make sure to assure the person with whom you are speaking that you aren't some undercover cop or some 'liburl' undercover journalist who wants to "expose the knuckle dragging shooting community" as the neanderthals he believes them to be.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#35 Post by M4Builder » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:05 pm

I would like a suppressor to shoot in my back yard and not wake the neighbors. Not that they complain but I'd feel better knowing I'm not disturbing them.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#36 Post by rolandson » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:00 pm

A rather swank gun club a bit south of here (Four Corners Rod and Gun Club in Salem, Oregon) has adopted an approach to mitigating the disturbance on the surrounding neighborhood. They have created a network of 55 gallon drums baffled and laid end to end with ports cut out to sight and fire rifles through...in effect an extra large suppressor. The idea of being neighborly is not lost upon the well healed it would seem.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#37 Post by Modeler » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:03 pm

rolandson wrote:A rather swank gun club a bit south of here (Four Corners Rod and Gun Club in Salem, Oregon) has adopted an approach to mitigating the disturbance on the surrounding neighborhood. They have created a network of 55 gallon drums baffled and laid end to end with ports cut out to sight and fire rifles through...in effect an extra large suppressor. The idea of being neighborly is not lost upon the well healed it would seem.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#38 Post by ErikO » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:40 pm

LibShooter wrote:
particleman wrote:
LibShooter wrote:I don't mean to sound jaded but I feel certain that the vast majority of people who want a suppressor (popularly, even if erroneously, referred to as a silencer), especially for a hand gun, want one for reasons other than hearing protection or being thoughtful of their neighbor's sensibilities.
So I read this twice, and outside of "having a suppressor would be soooo cool" (which I agree is one motivation of mine), I'm not really coming up with anything. I don't plan to start a career in black ops wet work or even mob/gang hitman (which seemed to be the outside theory of the OP's).

What are some of these "other reasons"? Not offending neighbors, shooting w/o hearing protection, pretty amazingly cool. I honestly have nothing else.
Try this on ... people who contemplate actually engaging in or who fantasize about engaging in illegal activities, i.e., shooting game illegally or shooting people.

Over the years I've had this conversation about "silencers" many, many times and, although valid reasons, I can't recall anyone who wanted to protect his hearing while on a hunting outing or who wanted to shoot in his back yard and not alarm his neighbors. Tell you what, particleman, the next time you go to the range, casually ask around about the purpose of "silencers" and who might want one. Take care to make sure to assure the person with whom you are speaking that you aren't some undercover cop or some 'liburl' undercover journalist who wants to "expose the knuckle dragging shooting community" as the neanderthals he believes them to be.
And then you met me. Sorry to bring a real reason to your life to own a muffler for my firearms.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#39 Post by gendoikari » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:51 pm

LibShooter wrote:
particleman wrote:
LibShooter wrote:I don't mean to sound jaded but I feel certain that the vast majority of people who want a suppressor (popularly, even if erroneously, referred to as a silencer), especially for a hand gun, want one for reasons other than hearing protection or being thoughtful of their neighbor's sensibilities.
So I read this twice, and outside of "having a suppressor would be soooo cool" (which I agree is one motivation of mine), I'm not really coming up with anything. I don't plan to start a career in black ops wet work or even mob/gang hitman (which seemed to be the outside theory of the OP's).

What are some of these "other reasons"? Not offending neighbors, shooting w/o hearing protection, pretty amazingly cool. I honestly have nothing else.
Try this on ... people who contemplate actually engaging in or who fantasize about engaging in illegal activities, i.e., shooting game illegally or shooting people.

Over the years I've had this conversation about "silencers" many, many times and, although valid reasons, I can't recall anyone who wanted to protect his hearing while on a hunting outing or who wanted to shoot in his back yard and not alarm his neighbors. Tell you what, particleman, the next time you go to the range, casually ask around about the purpose of "silencers" and who might want one. Take care to make sure to assure the person with whom you are speaking that you aren't some undercover cop or some 'liburl' undercover journalist who wants to "expose the knuckle dragging shooting community" as the neanderthals he believes them to be.
I find the perception of silencers fascinating. Over here in america people seem to think of crime and we heavily restrict them... in parts of europe that allow guns, they're required to cut down on noise pollution (which noise and light pollution are very real things and big problems).

two totally different perspectives.

and the reality is "silencers" are extremely rare when used for crime.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#40 Post by particleman » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:28 am

LibShooter wrote:Try this on ... people who contemplate actually engaging in or who fantasize about engaging in illegal activities, i.e., shooting game illegally or shooting people.
To be honest, I think/hope that this is movies/tv influencing the viewpoint of people who aren't familiar with silencers. Sure, there are people who think they're for making a handgun into an assassin's weapon, but those aren't the same people willing to set up a trust, get the documentation together, file the application for the silencer, wait 7-9 months, and after $1500-$2000, pick up a can that doesn't sound anything like what the foley artist though it should.
LibShooter wrote:Over the years I've had this conversation about "silencers" many, many times and, although valid reasons, I can't recall anyone who wanted to protect his hearing while on a hunting outing or who wanted to shoot in his back yard and not alarm his neighbors. Tell you what, particleman, the next time you go to the range, casually ask around about the purpose of "silencers" and who might want one. Take care to make sure to assure the person with whom you are speaking that you aren't some undercover cop or some 'liburl' undercover journalist who wants to "expose the knuckle dragging shooting community" as the neanderthals he believes them to be.
Maybe I just don't hang with the right crowd. I mentioned it at work and nobody figured that I went through all of the NFA rigmarole to get a silencer to do illegal things.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#41 Post by gaucheGlock » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:53 pm

There are some truly hilarious responses here, and I love 'em. Nice to visit a gun forum where folks use two- and even three-syllable words sometimes. I agree with them all individually, but there's an overriding unifying principle here.

My answer is, "Why does a dog lick his balls?" There is no better reason than the obvious: because he can.
It's absolutely the coolest damn thing going to shoot suppressed, especially a .22 that's quieter than a pellet gun. Sure, it's legal to shoot here, even though some neighbors are too close, but I don't want to upset anybody or become "that guy." Besides, I don't need no steenkin' reason.

Too often today we are run over by well-intentioned nervous nellies who would preemptively ban anything that stokes their phobias. Oregon ain't like that, and hell, I can even carry a balisong concealed if I feel like it. It's great when we assign the fear and bad deeds to perpetrators rather than their tools.

The balisong's a great example, in fact, because it's been used for criminal acts so rarely, and yet even simple ownership is prohibited across much of the Land of the Free. The same goes for firearm suppressors - the rallying cry of the control freaks is, as ever, "Why do you need it?"

Because, Fuck You, that's why.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#42 Post by Modeler » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:58 pm

gaucheGlock wrote:"Why do you need it?" Because, Fuck You, that's why.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#43 Post by DoctorB » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:39 pm

Because I, the hell, want to shoot in my front room.

With a close second to Gaucheglock's answer.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#44 Post by gaucheGlock » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:40 am

Criminal Use of Firearm Silencers

http://taurus45acp.com/files/clark.pdf
Both the public and sentencing judges regard silenced firearms as more dangerous than ordinary unsilenced firearms, and the federal penalty for possession of a silenced firearm during crime is a 30-year mandatory minimum. The assumption that silenced firearms are more dangerous than ordinary firearms has never been empirically researched. This study examines federal and state court data to compile statistics on who is being prosecuted for possession of silencers and what crimes they are used to commit. This data indicates that both on the federal and state level those prosecuted for crimes involving silencers are far less likely to have a criminal record, and are far less likely to actively use their weapon than those people convicted using ordinary unsilenced firearms. The data indicates that use of silenced firearms in crime is a rare occurrence, and is a minor problem. Moreover, the legislative history of silencer statutes indicates that these provisions were adopted with little or no debate.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#45 Post by eelj » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:10 pm

"Why does a dog lick his balls?" There is no better reason than the obvious: because he can.
You're wrong there, he licks his balls because he doesn't have opposable thumbs.
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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#46 Post by gascolator » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:43 pm

Huh? What? Why do I want a light saber on a seaplane? No I don't. No Darth Vader, he's cool.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#47 Post by LandMonster » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:07 pm

Owning a suppressor does not make you an assassin just like owning a throwing star does not make you a ninja.

Why would I want a suppressor? Because they are awesome! In what situation would shooting quieter not be more enjoyable? Scaring bears? Signaling? Ok, unscrew the can.

If it were not cost prohibitive I would own a can.

Besides, if crime is your deal you can make your own suppressor out of common items and tools.


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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#48 Post by classylib » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:27 pm

My interest is primarily in making the firearm more enjoyable/less uncomfortable to shoot. I particularly value a suppressor when introducing new persons to firearms, as heavy blast and noise can turn some people off. I do have a property where varmint control is sometimes necessary and legal with a suppressor, and using one helps reduce annoyance to persons using neighboring properties. I suppose it could also help save hearing of all people in a house during a home defense situation, but home defense situations are so rare it wouldn't really be a primary reason I would consider a suppressor. I can sympathize with the reasons hunters give in terms of hearing safety and reduction of noise pollution.

As to potential issues my thoughts are this: To obtain a legal suppressor a person has to go through a background check and registration. Persons who have gone through this are I think demonstrably less likely to use such devices in crime, be it homicide or illegal taking of game. I haven't found statistics that contradict that view but I'd welcome anything that might provide more rigorous analysis on the topic.

I haven't been around suppressed hunting to have a solid opinion on potential hazards from reduced noise signature. I'm not immediately finding myself concerned about the idea of having suppressed hunters around so long as they have been trained to properly identify targets, I'm wondering if anyone has any experiences where being able to hear gunshots for rounds negligently directed towards them helped them identify and avoid danger, would be interested to hear.

Bottom line, for the people that have gone through the process to get a suppressor legally, I find I'm not worried about that population's use of the devices.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#49 Post by DoctorB » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:26 am

The OP disappeared a couple months ago, BTW.
"il corporativismo è la pietra angolare dello Stato fascista" Translated, this means: "boom-shacka-lacka-lacka,-boom-boom-boom.

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Re: Why the hell do you want a suppressor in the first place

#50 Post by gaucheGlock » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:36 am

The OP was a LEO whose blood ran cold. I suspect he was testing the waters here and on other forums to see what he could see. I frankly don't get what all the nonsense is about. Like others have said,
1) They're no big deal in much of Europe. I understand that they don't even require a permit. They're just "good manners."
2) Anyone with evil intent will make his own. Who here saw the film Shooter?
3) Homicide is a crime of passion, not something you do after you screw on the can and stalk your quarry.
4) I do not need to prove that I'm not a criminal. I do not need to provide a reason. There are no data, no precedents, and no excuses for denying someone who pays for his background check, provides his fingerprint cards, and waits his turn the right to own a suppressor.
5) The overriding principle is that the government is the one that has to provide the reason to deny me access, not the other way around. In other words, I have the right to own it because Fuck You, that's why.

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