My 12 ga as backup

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dbluefish
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My 12 ga as backup

#1 Post by dbluefish » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:55 pm

It's only a single shot but i have a bunch of #8 bird shot left over when i tried clays and the local range does not allow shotguns and i don't hunt so i wondered if there were a load that might make the single shot more effective. So i went 'netting and came across a video on this fellow making 'cut' shells. It would seem to let me use my #8 shot shells, cut them, and have a big ass perp stopper!

Is this a known tactic? Is it legal? Is it worth pursuing? just asking as the shotgun is an old Savage, not worth much, and this make it useful.

And if I did that and cut the barrel down to 18inches(making it legal barreal and overall length in FL)would that change anytnhing?

Thanks

paul
Last edited by dbluefish on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#2 Post by commandZee » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:57 pm

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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#3 Post by JayFromPA » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:32 am

I think if you modify shells in order to cause them to inflict a form of catastrophic tissue mutilation that isn't found in the standard design, and you end up using those shells, then you may be viewed as one viciously cruel s.o.b. regardless of the legality.

On the practical end of things, it's my understanding that cutting shells would allow air humidity to seep into the powder.

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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#4 Post by MtnMan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:22 am

Jay raises good points.

Just buy some 00 buckshot shells. A box of 5 should be more than you'd ever need.

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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#5 Post by goosekiller » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:10 am

Those 8s will do just fine in their original form and i doubt that alteration would produce any noticeble difference under 20 feet. If it ain't broke...

Saw your barrel and buy a pistol grip.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#6 Post by wlewisiii » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:48 am

goosekiller wrote:Those 8s will do just fine in their original form and i doubt that alteration would produce any noticeble difference under 20 feet. If it ain't broke...

Saw your barrel and buy a pistol grip.
Be sure what you want to have. Is an 18" long barrel and an overall length no shorter than 26 inches small enough? If not then you need to be very careful about how you do it.

First make sure a short barreled shotgun is legal in your state. Then fill out and file a Form 1 with BATF along with $200 for the tax stamp. When you have the stamp in hand, ONLY THEN can you cut down the barrel and put on a pistol grip. Do these things out of order and you have a ticket for a 10 year vacation at Club Fed because the shotgun in question was built as a long gun to begin with.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#7 Post by ErikO » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:09 pm

wlewisiii wrote:
goosekiller wrote:Those 8s will do just fine in their original form and i doubt that alteration would produce any noticeble difference under 20 feet. If it ain't broke...

Saw your barrel and buy a pistol grip.
Be sure what you want to have. Is an 18" long barrel and an overall length no shorter than 26 inches small enough? If not then you need to be very careful about how you do it.

First make sure a short barreled shotgun is legal in your state. Then fill out and file a Form 1 with BATF along with $200 for the tax stamp. When you have the stamp in hand, ONLY THEN can you cut down the barrel and put on a pistol grip. Do these things out of order and you have a ticket for a 10 year vacation at Club Fed because the shotgun in question was built as a long gun to begin with.
If he puts a pistol grip on it and no stock, it's an AOW not a SBS. Cheaper stamp, same fine/prison time.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#8 Post by AmirMortal » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:57 am

ErikO, I believe that the AOW catchall only applies to shotguns that leave the factory with the short barrel and pistol gip only configuration. The tax to create an SBS really an AOW is the same I think, but you get to transfer an AOW for the lower price. Once a shotgun, always a shotgun ; and the same goes for rifles.


edit for clarity. You can make an AOW-like weapon out of a shotgun, but the alphabet men will classify it as an SBS. An AOW is manufactured to fit those parameters from the outset. And yes, all paperwork and taxes must be paid and completed BEFORE construction/alteration begins that would create a weapon regulated under the NFA.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#9 Post by goosekiller » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:59 am

Federal laws on shotgun modifications? WTF?!?!
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#10 Post by wlewisiii » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:17 am

Been that way since 1934, GK. Until Heller, the only SCOTUS case touching on the 2nd Amendment was one touching on the legality of regulating saw-ed off shotguns. The court upheld the NFA saying, essentially, that SBS's had no legitimate use.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#11 Post by Paladin » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:26 am

I think it was in Guns and Ammo (consider the source) I read that if you were to get a factory pistol that some how did not get rifling in the barrel you now own an illegal shotgun.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#12 Post by dbluefish » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:03 am

Thanks guys, the shotgun is worth <$100 so I am not so into it to shell out $200 plus if it were used, I might get labeled a cruel killer/maimer of innocent perps. Think I'll just keep the gun the way it is. My primary HD is my Ruger P85 MkII, with the paint job, using Hornady CD rounds(16 of them)

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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#13 Post by AmirMortal » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Paladin wrote:I think it was in Guns and Ammo (consider the source) I read that if you were to get a factory pistol that some how did not get rifling in the barrel you now own an illegal shotgun.
Yep, smooth bore pistols are a nono, unless it goes through the ATF. Revolver style shotguns are also regulated, both of those factors are why the Judge has that crappy, half-assed rifling in the bore.



As I think of it, having two pistol grips may be part of the AOW definition.


Wlewisiii, the most significant part of Miller case, which you refer to, was that the SBS had no legitimate military use. That is why I say that the NFA of '34 and the GCA of '68 stand in opposition to each other. NFA says weapons must have a justifiable military application, which apparently way back in' 30s, wasn't much for the SBS. then the GCA says that a weapon must have legitimate 'sporting purposes'. These laws are in conflict with each other, particularly now when sub 16" barrels are the normal in our military, as are short barreled shotguns, as are machine guns and suppressors.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#14 Post by wlewisiii » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:26 pm

I get what you're saying about Miller. However it was my understanding that the "Sporting Purposes" test of 68 only applied to those firearms not already covered by the NFA.

To be sure, the GCA of 68 has been, overall, a failure. OTOH, I don't really think there has been that significant a problem with the NFA. Rescind 68 & the Hughes amendment so to allow the market to deal with the pent up demand for Class III and I'd be satisfied. Especially if it allowed that cache of MP44's from Syria to legally be imported :whistle:
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#15 Post by ErikO » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:27 am

wlewisiii wrote:I get what you're saying about Miller. However it was my understanding that the "Sporting Purposes" test of 68 only applied to those firearms not already covered by the NFA.

To be sure, the GCA of 68 has been, overall, a failure. OTOH, I don't really think there has been that significant a problem with the NFA. Rescind 68 & the Hughes amendment so to allow the market to deal with the pent up demand for Class III and I'd be satisfied. Especially if it allowed that cache of MP44's from Syria to legally be imported :whistle:
I'd love to own an actual Assault Rifle, of which the MP44 is one.
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Re: My 12 ga as backup

#16 Post by drigeba » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:40 pm

Leave well enough alone. Birdshot at 5 yards will ruin anyone's day...


using non factory ammo in a Home defense situation will likely make your day in court much more challenging.


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