ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

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virtualhabitat
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ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#1 Post by virtualhabitat » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:15 am

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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#2 Post by KVoimakas » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:10 pm

Yeah, too bad they added all the shit in there about needing all of the info for every person on the trust.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#3 Post by virtualhabitat » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:23 pm

True, but then trusts would not be an issue in the first place if the CLEO rule had not been written in the first place.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#4 Post by KVoimakas » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:27 pm

virtualhabitat wrote:True, but then trusts would not be an issue in the first place if the CLEO rule had not been written in the first place.
I disagree. If I want to let my wife have access to my NFA items, then I need the item owned by a trust with her on it.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#5 Post by virtualhabitat » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:48 pm

I'm not suggesting that trusts did not and do not have ancillary benefits, but the primary reason trusts became so prolific was the fact that it circumvented an increasing number of CLEO's refusing to sign.

It's the #1 selling point.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#6 Post by DispositionMatrix » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:36 pm

This was mentioned in another thread, but doing away with CLEO sign-off is as much of a help as the new rule requiring fingerprinting and photos for trustees is a hassle.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#7 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:52 am

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeli ... a6c09577d8
Gun trusts were used primarily to bypass the rule that individuals needed the sign-off of their local police chief to buy NFA firearms like a short barrel shotgun or a silencer. But as of today, under new ATF rules, the same identification and background check requirements that apply to individuals now apply equally to trusts and other legal entities applying to make or transfer an NFA firearm. The new rules are a victory for gun control advocates, have one big concession for gun owners (law enforcement sign-off has been replaced with notification), and include new estate provisions for when a gun owner dies.

Final Rule 41-F, issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives in January, regarding the making or transferring of a firearm under the National Firearms Act, became effective July 13, 2016. (The ATF just put out a summary and frequently asked questions.) The rule spells out that “responsible persons” of trusts must now file new forms and submit photographs and fingerprints when the trust files an application to make or transfer an NFA firearm. This is meant to ensure that NFA firearms are not acquired by “prohibited persons” aka bad guys.
What did the ATF concede? Its original proposal toughened the requirements for law enforcement approval. Instead the new rules say that no sign off is needed, but all applications still must be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer where the responsible person lives. For trusts, the notification requirement is new, and Crown says it’s unclear how much power local law enforcement will still have power to block transfers.
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#8 Post by atxgunguy » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:22 am

I hope the ATF is ready for some paperwork this summer:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... lications/
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#9 Post by Hazborgufen » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:07 am

The new rules are pretty awesome for me here in Illinois. We, surprisingly, made SBRs legal a couple years back. The law requires that we have a C&R License, though it does not limit the age of the firearm we can own. Unfortunately, the ATF ruled that C&R Licenses can't be possessed by a trust and it didn't matter if all the trustees have C&Rs. Thus it refused to issue stamps to trusts from Illinois meaning we needed to get CLEO signoff.

I was fortunate in that my CLEO was willing to sign. It took about three months before he would though. I sent copies of my licences (FOID, FCCL, and C&R), a copy of the revised law with the relevant section highlighted, two letters from members of the state legislature (one Senator and one Representative) that they had sent to the ATF to clarify that despite the C&R requirement the intent of the law was to allow modern rifles as well. He consulted the state police, the ATF, and who knows what other agencies. The commander at the police department was my contact. He's a gun guy who even wants suppressors to be legal in my state so he was very sympathetic in my goal to get the signature, but he said the chief wanted to be absolutely certain that everything was legal. After several weeks of back and forth, I contacted my state's NRA-ILA lobbyist who told me he'd look into it. A week later I got a call from the commander saying that he was writing a memo for the department about the legality of SBRs and that I was going to get my signature.

So I was lucky to have a CLEO who was willing to sign after being assured of the legality by a commander who supported my goal and an NRA lobbyist advocated on my behalf. That's a TON of hands in the pot and legwork on my part that would be overwhelming for most people. I had access to a huge amount of resources that the average person wouldn't. And all of it would have been for naught had my CLEO been an anti.

So ditching the CLEO signature requirement is huge. That was the number 1 purpose of trusts anyway. Sure sharing ownership of your NFA goodies is a wonderful thing, but that always seemed secondary to bypassing the signature. Besides, you can still get a trust so there you go. I know of several people who have CLEOs that refused to sign. Now they are good to go. That's awesome.

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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#10 Post by AndyH » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:50 am

atxgunguy wrote:I hope the ATF is ready for some paperwork this summer:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016 ... lications/
:shock: Holy crap that's a lot of Form 4s!

I'm really really really glad my Form 1 went in well ahead of that pile!
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#11 Post by Tedzilla » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:11 am

So... Did this "doing away with CLEO sign off" come to pass?
I was going through the directions to buy a suppressor this evening and item 7 for buying for a Trust was: Mail in copy of your Form 4 and all Responsible Person Questionnaires (ATF Form 5320.23) to your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
What's the story?
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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#12 Post by dandad » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:00 am

My car uses atf. Its never gave me any problem when I carry firearms.

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Re: ATF doing away with CLEO sign off on all paperwork!

#13 Post by beaurrr » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:55 am

Tedzilla wrote:So... Did this "doing away with CLEO sign off" come to pass?
I was going through the directions to buy a suppressor this evening and item 7 for buying for a Trust was: Mail in copy of your Form 4 and all Responsible Person Questionnaires (ATF Form 5320.23) to your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO)
What's the story?
Yes it did, but in its place is the 'responsible person' provision...but only for trusts. If no trust, the responsible person questionnaire is skipped.

I went through this with Form 5s for my dad's machine guns after he died. Even though I used Form 5s because they were tax-exempt transfers, the process is the same for Form 4 items. You just mail the CLEO copy to the CLEO when it comes back from ATF and you're done. They no longer have discretion.
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