Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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It's not about the chase. Apparently he was in an area with an overpopulation problem. My in-law's place in central Texas is like that - a bunch of land owners feeding the deer means overpopulation...and that's been hell for the small trees trying to grow to replace the oaks we lost in the 2010-2015 drought. I'd heard from veteran friends that the .50 round didn't actually need to hit anyone to kill them - just blasting one over people's heads was enough. I guess they were right. It certainly was humane - it shut that deer off immediately without any pain, and the entire animal's usable.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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Marlene wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:29 pm The glee at anticipated killing in an over the top way from a guy who missed got to me.

No problem at all with hunting
I agree - not the kind of guy I'd want to shoot with. At first, I couldn't believe he missed. Then I remembered a conversation from a past life...now I wonder if missing wasn't the point. Dunno. I didn't mean offense; just in awe of the round.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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I don't like the glee this guy has for killing the animal. I understand deer populations need to be controlled, I totally get that. But I feel like you should hunt with a purpose. When you go out hunting, I feel like you should have some respect for what you're killing. Animals have emotions and desires just like people do. The reason we put people to death for killing other people is because you rob the person you killed of all of their life potential. All the things they could have done, all the love they could have given and shared with others, you take something from the world if you kill a person. But we're not unique, we're animals, and we're just like any other animal, except that we have the capacity to learn more and build more.

I don't feel like this person killed that deer mainly for population control, I feel like he killed it because he enjoys killing. I wonder if he made any use of the meat or bones or skin later on. I hope there was more to this than his joy in killing.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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On the other hand...

"At least two deer were discovered wandering around Friday with arrows sticking through their bodies, prompting authorities in Oregon to offer a reward for information that could lead to an arrest."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/ ... spect.html

Is hunting deer with a bow illegal in Oregon?
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Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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SilasSoule wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 am On the other hand...

"At least two deer were discovered wandering around Friday with arrows sticking through their bodies, prompting authorities in Oregon to offer a reward for information that could lead to an arrest."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/ ... spect.html

Is hunting deer with a bow illegal in Oregon?
If it's out of season it's not hunting, it's poaching. This is not even poaching, the illegal harvesting of meat doesn't seem to be the intention behind the act. Some kid got tired with pulling the wings off of flys.

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So he hit the deer, but couldn't find where he hit the deer so he then claims the passing bullet sucked the eyes out.

I'm not a hunter and I've never served so I've never shot anything not made of paper steel or gods desert dirt....


But I'd have to imagine he is lying. I can't comprehend being unable to find where I shot the deer on the deer's head.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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SilasSoule wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 am On the other hand...

"At least two deer were discovered wandering around Friday with arrows sticking through their bodies, prompting authorities in Oregon to offer a reward for information that could lead to an arrest."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/ ... spect.html

Is hunting deer with a bow illegal in Oregon?
That arrow looks like it doesn't have a bladed head on it, it that's a real picture of one of the deer in question it's probably illegal to shoot arrows at them that don't kill them. I don't know what they call those little arrow heads, but I've never heard of someone hunting with them.

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Bang wrote:
That arrow looks like it doesn't have a bladed head on it, it that's a real picture of one of the deer in question it's probably illegal to shoot arrows at them that don't kill them. I don't know what they call those little arrow heads, but I've never heard of someone hunting with them.
Target tips. Could also be a field tip. Broad heads are what are normally used for large game.
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Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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Bang wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 10:21 am
SilasSoule wrote: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:04 am On the other hand...

"At least two deer were discovered wandering around Friday with arrows sticking through their bodies, prompting authorities in Oregon to offer a reward for information that could lead to an arrest."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/04/ ... spect.html

Is hunting deer with a bow illegal in Oregon?
That arrow looks like it doesn't have a bladed head on it, it that's a real picture of one of the deer in question it's probably illegal to shoot arrows at them that don't kill them. I don't know what they call those little arrow heads, but I've never heard of someone hunting with them.
yeah, what the hell is a hunter using field tips on deer for? At least I think its a field tip. If not, its one of those expanding tips and it went through and failed to expand. Field tips are for shooting hay bales and other non-living targets, not deer. You either need a broadhead arrow or a working expanding tip.

Back to using a 50 BMG to hunt deer. That is dangerously overkill. Way too much chance for overpenetration and ricochet. No expansion, only the cavitation from the bullet itself.

I found a latin saying for hunting that pretty much describes how I feel any hunter should go about it.
finis vitae sed non amoris: the end of life, but not of love. (its off of wikipedia so don't put too much stock in it)

This might have been a funeral eulogy at some point, but i feel it stands for hunting as well. You may take the lives of animals for food, pelts, safety, or to protect other animals and property, but never lose respect for life and nature. This means being an informed hunter and understanding when you have too much or too little gun. 50 BMG is too much gun for deer. Maybe not against a 500lb+ animal with a thick hide (I don't know, I'm no expert on big game hunting), but If you can't recover the bullet, or its fragments for that matter, you messed up, either by missing or by using too much gun.

Also last time I checked 50 BMG didn't come in fragmenting, soft point, or hollowpoint.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 pm yeah, what the hell is a hunter using field tips on deer for? At least I think its a field tip. If not, its one of those expanding tips and it went through and failed to expand. Field tips are for shooting hay bales and other non-living targets, not deer. You either need a broadhead arrow or a working expanding tip.

Back to using a 50 BMG to hunt deer. That is dangerously overkill. Way too much chance for overpenetration and ricochet. No expansion, only the cavitation from the bullet itself.

I found a latin saying for hunting that pretty much describes how I feel any hunter should go about it.
finis vitae sed non amoris: the end of life, but not of love. (its off of wikipedia so don't put too much stock in it)

This might have been a funeral eulogy at some point, but i feel it stands for hunting as well. You may take the lives of animals for food, pelts, safety, or to protect other animals and property, but never lose respect for life and nature. This means being an informed hunter and understanding when you have too much or too little gun. 50 BMG is too much gun for deer. Maybe not against a 500lb+ animal with a thick hide (I don't know, I'm no expert on big game hunting), but If you can't recover the bullet, or its fragments for that matter, you messed up, either by missing or by using too much gun.

Also last time I checked 50 BMG didn't come in fragmenting, soft point, or hollowpoint.
I agree with you about respecting life and the life of the animal. I can't agree that .50 is 'to much' gun, and don't agree that .223 is too little - both can be placed for a humane, quick, kill. There's no way that he missed, and it's clear from the video that it was an instant kill. The only criticism I've read about larger calibers (including .30-06!) for deer is that a shoulder shot can damage so much meat. That's not a problem with a head shot. I'm not sure recovering the bullet is a goal - what's that about?

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 pm If you can't recover the bullet, or its fragments for that matter, you messed up, either by missing or by using too much gun.
Umm, no. Total pass-throughs are very common, and to be expected. A caliber heavy enough for some shot angles will always pass through if you hit a softer, but still vital, part. Even in a broadside shot, if you hit shoulder bones with a pipsqueak caliber, you could do a lot of shallow damage without getting into the vitals for a quick kill. While it would be *nice* to be able to place the bullet within an inch of where you wanted, realistically, hunters are not going to be that precise, and should be using a round that will work even if it hits a little more bone than you wanted.

I shot two pronghorns long ago; body shots with a fairly short-barreled .243 Winchester, 80 grain Partitions, I think. Straight-on at almost 300 yards, bullet went in front of neck and neatly down the left side of the spinal column. That bullet was recovered, of course, without any of its front core left. The other was a broadside shot at around 200 yards, and hit only ribs and lungs going in and out. Exit wound was about the size of a quarter, IIRC. I doubt anyone ever said the .243 was too much gun for pronghorn.
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Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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Buck13 wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 8:01 pm
BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 pm If you can't recover the bullet, or its fragments for that matter, you messed up, either by missing or by using too much gun.
Umm, no. Total pass-throughs are very common, and to be expected. A caliber heavy enough for some shot angles will always pass through if you hit a softer, but still vital, part. Even in a broadside shot, if you hit shoulder bones with a pipsqueak caliber, you could do a lot of shallow damage without getting into the vitals for a quick kill. While it would be *nice* to be able to place the bullet within an inch of where you wanted, realistically, hunters are not going to be that precise, and should be using a round that will work even if it hits a little more bone than you wanted.

I shot two pronghorns long ago; body shots with a fairly short-barreled .243 Winchester, 80 grain Partitions, I think. Straight-on at almost 300 yards, bullet went in front of neck and neatly down the left side of the spinal column. That bullet was recovered, of course, without any of its front core left. The other was a broadside shot at around 200 yards, and hit only ribs and lungs going in and out. Exit wound was about the size of a quarter, IIRC. I doubt anyone ever said the .243 was too much gun for pronghorn.
Sorry, im being a bit too hyperbolic. I still think some rounds are inappropriate for hunting because of the danger of ricochet after passthrough (or fire in the case of incendiaries and tracers). I don't mean to be quite so literal. I just think FMJs with hard tips should not be used as hunting rounds, especially ones coming out of a .50 BMG.

Perforations happen. Lost bullets happen. Intentionally using rounds you know will perforate at high speed and continue to be a threat is risking breaking being aware of what is behind and around your target. I think it's irresponsible and reckless.

For the random .223 comment, if I say anything against small caliber bullets, its normally because I wouldn't trust myself to land a humane hit with it. I also tend to question people who can claim to put holes in holes without evidence to back it up. It's about safety, knowing your own limits, and not taking excess risks. Basically using the tool for the job that leaves the smallest margin for error and unintended consequences.

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Full metal jacketed bullets more than likely are illegal to use most everywhere. They have always been in my state. In my home state where ricochets are dangerous in more populated areas we are restricted to using shotguns with slugs or muzzle loaders. I have found that using either hard cast bullets or heavy jacketed bullets that pass through without too much expansion waste the least amount of meat, plus there is less chance of lead contamination. I also consider head and neck shots as stupid, to great a chance for wounding a deer and losing it.

Re: .50 BMG + Deer

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BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 10:15 pm Sorry, im being a bit too hyperbolic. I still think some rounds are inappropriate for hunting because of the danger of ricochet after passthrough (or fire in the case of incendiaries and tracers). I don't mean to be quite so literal. I just think FMJs with hard tips should not be used as hunting rounds, especially ones coming out of a .50 BMG.

Perforations happen. Lost bullets happen. Intentionally using rounds you know will perforate at high speed and continue to be a threat is risking breaking being aware of what is behind and around your target. I think it's irresponsible and reckless.
The bullet used in this thread was not a FMJ. The shot was from a stand so was generally downward, and we can see that the bullet impacted behind the deer.

Separately, a number of modern hunting rounds have metal or polymer inserts that help them mushroom. Also, hunters of animals (including the human type) have found that BTHP normally used for match shooting have very effective terminal ballistics. If the bullet was an A-Max...



I'm guessing that one actually would not want an expanding round. This thing is larger than diameter than a .308 will mushroom to...and I'm pretty sure the shooter doesn't want the deer to absorb all of the energy in this case.

Through shots not only 'happen', they're apparently common - and when a wounded deer runs, the exit wound provides the delivery of a blood trail.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles ... fles-brush

BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 10:15 pmFor the random .223 comment, if I say anything against small caliber bullets, its normally because I wouldn't trust myself to land a humane hit with it. I also tend to question people who can claim to put holes in holes without evidence to back it up. It's about safety, knowing your own limits, and not taking excess risks. Basically using the tool for the job that leaves the smallest margin for error and unintended consequences.
I'm not the best rifle marksman but I've put rounds through holes. I put three rounds of .308 into a ragged hole today...it only took firing 10 shots to do it. :lol: It's my understanding that knowing one's limits, not taking risks, knowing the target and what's beyond it, etc. are all standard requirements for any marksman whether shooting paper or animals with 4 or 2 legs - so I'll agree with you.

ETA...
BillMcD wrote: Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 pm Also last time I checked 50 BMG didn't come in fragmenting, soft point, or hollowpoint.
They're out there.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product ... ?a=1592724
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10106 ... -box-of-20
Last edited by AndyH on Thu May 03, 2018 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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