So I'm not the first to discover this by any stretch of the imagination, but I picked up some random range brass in the last few weeks from somewhere, and after cleaning it and getting ready to resize/prime on the LNL, I noticed a case that I thought had gotten a smaller case stuck in it or something and discarded it. Had a second one show up (which is one of the reasons why visual inspection is so important) and figured something was up.
Sure enough, this brass made by Maxxtech has a really thick case on the bottom half of it- instead of the .01" thickness, it jumps up to .05" thickness. Chucked it on the scale and it weighs in at around 80 grains rather than the normal brass at around 60- 30% heavier which massively reduces the case volume. Apparently it's made in Russia, and they do it to prevent additional bullet set back and to reduce powder charges. If you loaded it up with a standard or even low power load, may well have yourself a kaboom with the stuff. Did some poking around the web and it looks like it popped up as an issue last year, but I didn't see the thread, and figured others may not have as well.
Also decided pics would be in order, so I chopped on in half on my mini saw so you can see what I'm talking about. Be careful out there.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
2Thank you for this, Shinzen!
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
4Thanks for the heads up!
Their case design is a really good idea, but definitely not compatible with standard powder charges.
Their case design is a really good idea, but definitely not compatible with standard powder charges.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
6Thanks....just picked up a few more cases than I fired today
That's a BOLO.
Head stamp is?
In other events, I had a .22lr case hide inside of a 9mm case....that was an easy puzzle to solve.
That's a BOLO.
Head stamp is?
In other events, I had a .22lr case hide inside of a 9mm case....that was an easy puzzle to solve.
Heller and McDonald are precedents to be followed, not obstacles
to be overcome
to be overcome
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
7this "mini saw", i'd like to know more.
i've found many a 9mm case hiding inside a .45acp.
i've found many a 9mm case hiding inside a .45acp.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
8Totally agreed. I actually dig the case design, it's pretty clever for a few reasons, and if it was more prevalent I might even work up some loads for it, but given the rarity, it's just not worth screwing around with.Marlene wrote: Their case design is a really good idea, but definitely not compatible with standard powder charges.
Workingstiff- Headstamp is Maxxtech- however the interwebz say that there are others, so just be aware if you're scrounging range brass.
Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
9cool, thanks. they sell a little mini-table saw i've been trying to think of a use for, just because it's so tiny and cute. they keep it near the sextants, which i assume are shoddy junk, but am tempted by anyway, just because i don't have a sextant. you never know, i might get lost at sea one day, three hour cruise or something.shinzen wrote: Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
10Made in Russia. Must be Putin trying to sabotage our guns.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
11I did not suspect such a thing could happen. I'll check any range brass of any caliber I snag. Thanks for the heads up.
CDFingers
CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
12Thank you! What a find.
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This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
13Ive been looking at that saw too. $49. I was thinking it would be great for pistol grips and different small wood work. I dont think it has the whompum to chew metal though.lurker wrote:cool, thanks. they sell a little mini-table saw i've been trying to think of a use for, just because it's so tiny and cute. they keep it near the sextants, which i assume are shoddy junk, but am tempted by anyway, just because i don't have a sextant. you never know, i might get lost at sea one day, three hour cruise or something.shinzen wrote: Lurker- just a cheap little cutoff saw from Harbor Freight- I used it to make some TCM brass when I was still trying to get that stupid cartridge to work. Works fine on the thinner brass, it was choking a bit on this thicker stuff, so had to take it really slow.
https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-mini ... 62136.html
Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
14My dad uses one similar to the HF table saw for cutting pieces for his model railroad stuff. IIRC he's also got some kind of small miter saw as well.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
15Will it cut metal? small brass, aluminum? Non ferris stuff ?shinzen wrote:My dad uses one similar to the HF table saw for cutting pieces for his model railroad stuff. IIRC he's also got some kind of small miter saw as well.
Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
- Me -
"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-
I must proof read more
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
16I'm talking to him later today and I'll ask him. I don't think he got the HF model but instead got one that was a step up so he could do brass and whatnot for his track, but I could be wrong.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
17Damn, that's a fat wall. I'll keep an eye out for that.
I always visually check the powder level before seating the bullet, even on the progressive - so I should be OK, I'd think that would overflow with my 9mm charges.
Something like .38 Special would be worse, with light loads the powder takes up less than half of the case.
I always visually check the powder level before seating the bullet, even on the progressive - so I should be OK, I'd think that would overflow with my 9mm charges.
Something like .38 Special would be worse, with light loads the powder takes up less than half of the case.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
18Yeah, was on my progressive that I caught it. Stood out enough that I caught it on initial inspection. Would definitely trigger my powder cop die
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Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
19Somebody in another forum pointed out another problem with the design of that brass:
That sharp transition step from thick to thin is a severe stress riser and has confirmed cases of case separation and I have seen it happen with my own 2 eyes! I have culled out pieces of step-drawn brass that had an incipient separation ring and sectioned this brass and verified it was about to split! The brass in my examples is all one piece. When it fails, it will likely leave that thinner walled ring of brass in your chamber. Keep that in mind folks! Stay safe!
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
20I have just made my third batch ever. The first two times I used range brass. This time I collected some of my own brass from some new cartridges I bought from LAX Ammo. At some point I noticed it was heavier than than the other cases of mixed stuff. I was wondering if that would be a problem.
I did a little testing:
I weighed about sixteen empty cases of LAX ammo and other mixed cases
LAX 68.1 gr - 68.8 gr ---------------------------average 68.3 gr
mixed range stuff 57.2 gr - 63.6 -------------average 61 gr
Then I measured the capacity by filling the cases with powder (titegroup) of seven shells
LAX 10.3 gr except for one at 10.5 ----------average 10.3 gr
mixed stuff 10 gr - 11.7 gr---------------------average 10.9 gr
so it seems like there is about the volume of what 0.6gr occupies less pace in a LAX case.
I have made 30 rounds of berry's 124 gr with 3.7 gr titegroup that I was going to take to the range tomorrow.
What do you think? is it risky?
I did a little testing:
I weighed about sixteen empty cases of LAX ammo and other mixed cases
LAX 68.1 gr - 68.8 gr ---------------------------average 68.3 gr
mixed range stuff 57.2 gr - 63.6 -------------average 61 gr
Then I measured the capacity by filling the cases with powder (titegroup) of seven shells
LAX 10.3 gr except for one at 10.5 ----------average 10.3 gr
mixed stuff 10 gr - 11.7 gr---------------------average 10.9 gr
so it seems like there is about the volume of what 0.6gr occupies less pace in a LAX case.
I have made 30 rounds of berry's 124 gr with 3.7 gr titegroup that I was going to take to the range tomorrow.
What do you think? is it risky?
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
21Scrounged some 9mm range brass..one case had a .22 case inside of that. What are the odds? I always inspect brass before it goes into the press.
Heller and McDonald are precedents to be followed, not obstacles
to be overcome
to be overcome
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
22Pomme- What you are describing is different than the brass in the OP- sounds like LAX is similar to or is using military brass, which is thicker overall, and generally uses less powder so as to not increase pressure. Since that is about at the starting load for 124gr loads, it should be okay, I'd still start at 3.6 which is the recommended starting load, as the reduced case volume will increase pressure. You may find that it doesn't cycle the gun reliably, so as with any load, start at the bottom and work your way up. Titegroup is a spiky powder that can get unpredictable at higher pressures, so be careful with it.
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
23I'm not sure I see the point to reloading 9mm when you can get quality 115 grain FMJ for $0.19 or $0.20 /round from Federal and Blazer Brass.
Sure, quality home-defense JHP can run as high $1/round--but you don't expect to shoot that very often.
Sure, quality home-defense JHP can run as high $1/round--but you don't expect to shoot that very often.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."
Re: 9mm reloaders WARNING
25Too bad we don't have data for those, they might last a good while. At 80 grains, an ejected case hitting a bystander might prove painful too.
Stopping 'setback' can be done with a canneluere (spelling check please) in the case. Some 45 acp's have them. CH4D sells a tool to do just that, and on bullets too.
Stopping 'setback' can be done with a canneluere (spelling check please) in the case. Some 45 acp's have them. CH4D sells a tool to do just that, and on bullets too.
Bud.
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure"---- Dan Quayle, 1990.
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure"---- Dan Quayle, 1990.