Body armor

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K9s
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Re: Body armor

Post by K9s »

featureless wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:47 pm

It's a difficult thing to spend money on and very much hope it is an utter waste of money.
You're on a gun forum where many of us buy self-defense ammo and carry a firearm every day. I don't see body armor as an "utter" waste of money compared to some things. It just depends on your situation. Natural disasters are one good reason to own body armor and a motorcycle helmet. If you live in hurricane or tornado areas, it isn't a terrible thing to have.

That bulletproof "school hoodie" probably makes more sense in tornado alley or the Gulf Coast where you can see the threat coming.

I don't know why body armor is so demonized. I just wish it was cheaper. If you don't like guns, get some body armor.
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featureless
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Re: Body armor

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K9s wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:21 pm

I don't know why body armor is so demonized. I just wish it was cheaper. If you don't like guns, get some body armor.
It just makes me feel like a nutter. I can justify it to myself because shit keeps getting unhinged here in California wildfire/power outage season and I've seen enough Katrina examples to know where things can end up. Then there's the political climate... But I still feel like a nutter.

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Re: Body armor

Post by K9s »

featureless wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:27 pm
K9s wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:21 pm

I don't know why body armor is so demonized. I just wish it was cheaper. If you don't like guns, get some body armor.
It just makes me feel like a nutter. I can justify it to myself because shit keeps getting unhinged here in California wildfire/power outage season and I've seen enough Katrina examples to know where things can end up. Then there's the political climate... But I still feel like a nutter.
I guess it's a regional thing.

How is it different than knee protection or a motorcycle helmet or protective gear for chainsaw use? If you have to go outside and move/fix something in a tropical storm or weak hurricane, it makes more sense. If a tornado is coming toward you, wouldn't you want body armor and a helmet? Don't they use it in some school backpacks these days?

Added:

Bulletproof backpacks have become another back-to-school staple
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/06/bullet- ... taple.html
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Re: Body armor

Post by bajajoaquin »

senorgrand wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:20 pm
If your house is old enough for a cast iron tub, I’d probably turn the bathroom into a safe room and just buy armor for yourself.
Having seen .22s penetrate cast iron pans, I wonder if a cast iron tub isn’t too brittle to be an effective barrier.

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Re: Body armor

Post by JohnNewell »

Rasta is getting some sort of body armor. He's moving so he asked to ship it to my address. Guess we can look at it when it arrives.

Several of the guys at work have bought body armor. Why? Because they are Hispanic and live near the border is what they told me.

When I worked for The Bomb Company and we were making chemical weapons the literature basically said that you didn't have to gas the enemy to be effective. Just set off their chemical and biological detectors and all the enemy soldiers would scramble into their military bunny suits. That way they couldn't effectively aim weapons, drink water, eat, urinate, etc. So as a fighting force they are done.

And body armor above and beyond a police-style vest seems like that to me. If it will stop a rifle round then it's presumably freaking heavy, unless someone makes something like carbon fiber and porcelain laminates, and that would be expensive. Vest were issued in Vietnam. Few wore them. Today's elite military is going for low cut running shoes and from what I have seen no armor in order to be maneuverable rather than lumbering turtles. (A caveat to this is that SOCOM has access to zillions of combinations of stuff and I am sure that on some missions they do indeed suit up in armor).

Cop body armor shops offer kits so that you can plug your armor directly into your patrol vehicles A/C system. So the idea of wearing something like that in the outdoor heat of a Texas summer while searching for someone or something just sounds insane to me, especially since I am almost 64 and "heat restricted" to begin with.

Plus, between rifle, weapon belt, and tactical vest, I am already carrying around about 60 lbs. of equipment. It gets to be pretty tough to walk a few hundred yards in the summer heat out here.

Different strokes for different folks, but I have been training with a 5.11 tactical vest for several years. It won't stop a bullet, but I suspect that it's a better anti-stab vest than what is issued to Correctional Officers. Just my opinion of course. And it distributes the weight of radios, phones, cameras, a Camelback, weapon (I usually use a single point sling attached the the vest) pretty nicely.

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K9s
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Re: Body armor

Post by K9s »

Yeah, body armor is a tradeoff. The more armor, the harder it is to move fast. If you are stuck in place (home), it might make sense for you. Carrying a firearm is usually just extra weight that we don't ever use. It's still a somewhat free country in some states and localities, so do what you think you need to do.
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Re: Body armor

Post by featureless »

John,

You make good points. However, the body armor would be intended as a last ditch insurance policy for home and/or bugging out. For 2 of the last 3 years, I've had to prepare to leave home on a few hours notice due to wildfire. Having your most valuable/non replaceable possessions piled by the front door or in the trunk isn't as much fun as you might think! In California, those possessions include your non replaceable firearms, so lots of people driving around with a trunk full of guns. While I haven't had to actually hit the road with 10s of thousands of others, I've witnessed those that have passing through my little hamlet. It's fucking spooky.

Last year, the main arterial freeway was closed down several times for multiple hours (and the fire wasn't even at the freeway), so anybody needing to get somewhere was forced onto lightly patrolled (first reponders are generally pretty busy getting people out rather than roaming the countryside) narrow remote roadways. Tree fall is standard around here in wind conditions. It won't be many more times before the less desirable element of our society sees the "opportunity" in these events. Couple that with the long-term summertime power outages (fire prevention efforts that, so far, haven't done shit), and I've decided light armor isn't the worst idea.

If I find myself roaming the countryside with 60 pounds of kit and a rifle, something has gone horribly awfully wrong in my planning.

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Re: Body armor

Post by JohnNewell »

featureless wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:55 am
John,

You make good points. However, the body armor would be intended as a last ditch insurance policy for home and/or bugging out. For 2 of the last 3 years, I've had to prepare to leave home on a few hours notice due to wildfire. Having your most valuable/non replaceable possessions piled by the front door or in the trunk isn't as much fun as you might think! In California, those possessions include your non replaceable firearms, so lots of people driving around with a trunk full of guns. While I haven't had to actually hit the road with 10s of thousands of others, I've witnessed those that have passing through my little hamlet. It's fucking spooky.

Last year, the main arterial freeway was closed down several times for multiple hours (and the fire wasn't even at the freeway), so anybody needing to get somewhere was forced onto lightly patrolled (first reponders are generally pretty busy getting people out rather than roaming the countryside) narrow remote roadways. Tree fall is standard around here in wind conditions. It won't be many more times before the less desirable element of our society sees the "opportunity" in these events. Couple that with the long-term summertime power outages (fire prevention efforts that, so far, haven't done shit), and I've decided light armor isn't the worst idea.

If I find myself roaming the countryside with 60 pounds of kit and a rifle, something has gone horribly awfully wrong in my planning.

I think we are all in agreement - one has to adjust to their particular need. I wish that I had a vest or some sort of protection "just in case." So I see your point.

And I've had to evacuate for a Cat. 5 hurricane that was projected to come ashore in Florida. Thank God it defied the odds and stayed offshore.

Likewise, I rode out a Cat. 2 in North Carolina and after I moved to Florida a Cat. 3 came along the same path and destroyed my sailboat. I drove back to work as a volunteer for the Red Cross. I worked as a FEMA contractor after hurricanes in Louisiana and then in Houston about a decade ago and I totally agree; disaster brings out the crazies, the looters, and the desperate.

It's funny. When I was starting up our little intel group I wanted to get a basic cop-style bullet resistant vest. My wife thought that I was crazy. Sometime later, after she saw what we were getting into, we were both at a gun show and she was looking at a display of body armor and she said of a vest "This is a nice one. What do you think?" :lol:

I didn't mean to come off too negative. I think that a vest is like any other tool: Having one handy might save your life. But sometimes when it comes to tools, the circumstances change. Sometimes you need a small hammer, sometimes you need a bigger hammer, and sometimes you need a sledge hammer.

I was just pointing out the negatives on body armor. And for me at the moment it's a low priority, but I have lots of stuff hanging in the closet "just in case". I wouldn't mind having some body armor. And if you feel that it's a higher priority for you then by all means go for one. Friends of mine are getting them.

Keep us informed My Friend! I am curious.

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K9s
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Re: Body armor

Post by K9s »

You made excellent points, John. It is a tradeoff and it is nice to know that the option is available for now. There are times when you think you'll never need a generator... until you do. Options can be good. :)
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featureless
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Re: Body armor

Post by featureless »

John,

Didn't think you were harsh, just clarifying my justification to myself as much as anyone. :)

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Re: Body armor

Post by JohnNewell »

featureless wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:06 am
John,

Didn't think you were harsh, just clarifying my justification to myself as much as anyone. :)

You are good Amigo. I suspect that if I was younger, stronger, and lived in a climate that wasn't so hot I'd consider heavier body armor.

I do train regularly using a mesh tactical vest with the thoughts that I'm probably more likely to encounter a stabbing rather than a shooting.

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Re: Body armor

Post by AndyH »

Seems like a good place to drop some Paul Harrell. You be the judge. :lol:


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