Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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HB2058
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2021_2 ... es/hb2058/

Kansas lowers concealed gun carry age to 18 as Legislature overrides Gov. Laura Kelly veto
The Kansas Legislature on Monday overturned Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto of a bill lowering the minimum age to carry a concealed weapon in the state from 21 to 18.

After less than five minutes of debate, House Republicans pieced together the 84 votes needed to override Kelly’s veto of House Bill 2058, which allows persons 18, 19 and 20 to get a concealed carry permit.

The bill also makes it easier in some cases for felons convicted of violent crimes to reacquire their rights to possess and carry firearms.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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In effect in my state, we always have had this. The NH P&R license, which is no longer required, does not mention a minimum age. Although federal law requires that FFLs not sell handguns to anyone under 21, there is no state or federal law disqualifying an 18yo from possessing a handgun. So a NH resident can give Junior a Glock 19 when she is under 21--but probably not until she starts to get over being named after her parent.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:57 pm In effect in my state, we always have had this. The NH P&R license, which is no longer required, does not mention a minimum age. Although federal law requires that FFLs not sell handguns to anyone under 21, there is no state or federal law disqualifying an 18yo from possessing a handgun. So a NH resident can give Junior a Glock 19 when she is under 21--but probably not until she starts to get over being named after her parent.
That’s about what I thought. I suspect this is not going to be a huge change.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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The only concern IHave is many 18 y.o. are still in high school. Not a good mix. Although I took my 22 Marlin to high school as an 18 y.o. When a bunch of use went camping and rabbit hunting for the weekend. We left from school. The rifle went into the ROTC commandant’s office till after school. Today the people would go bonkers about us having over 100 beautiful M1 Garands sitting in the armory. Worse yet the year after I graduated the Army took up all the M1s and replaced them with M14s with the select fire switch removed but stud remained and the cadets figured out that a cotter or Bobby pin inserted in the shaft hole would allow it to go full auto.. Add a BFA (Blank Fire Adapter) you have a semi or full auto rifle to shoot blank rounds.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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TrueTexan wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:56 pm The only concern IHave is many 18 y.o. are still in high school. Not a good mix. Although I took my 22 Marlin to high school as an 18 y.o. When a bunch of use went camping and rabbit hunting for the weekend. We left from school. The rifle went into the ROTC commandant’s office till after school. Today the people would go bonkers about us having over 100 beautiful M1 Garands sitting in the armory. Worse yet the year after I graduated the Army took up all the M1s and replaced them with M14s with the select fire switch removed but stud remained and the cadets figured out that a cotter or Bobby pin inserted in the shaft hole would allow it to go full auto.. Add a BFA (Blank Fire Adapter) you have a semi or full auto rifle to shoot blank rounds.
Guns need to be normalized and safety training brought into schools. It’s no different than any shop class.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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sikacz wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:24 pm I thought there was a federal age restriction for buying a handgun, 21 years. Am I remembering incorrectly?
Yes. Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:52 am HB2058
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2021_2 ... es/hb2058/

Kansas lowers concealed gun carry age to 18 as Legislature overrides Gov. Laura Kelly veto
The Kansas Legislature on Monday overturned Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto of a bill lowering the minimum age to carry a concealed weapon in the state from 21 to 18.

After less than five minutes of debate, House Republicans pieced together the 84 votes needed to override Kelly’s veto of House Bill 2058, which allows persons 18, 19 and 20 to get a concealed carry permit.

The bill also makes it easier in some cases for felons convicted of violent crimes to reacquire their rights to possess and carry firearms.
Isn't this contrary to the GCA? Federal law?
Yes. Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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F4FEver wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:44 am
DispositionMatrix wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:52 am HB2058
http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2021_2 ... es/hb2058/

Kansas lowers concealed gun carry age to 18 as Legislature overrides Gov. Laura Kelly veto
The Kansas Legislature on Monday overturned Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto of a bill lowering the minimum age to carry a concealed weapon in the state from 21 to 18.

After less than five minutes of debate, House Republicans pieced together the 84 votes needed to override Kelly’s veto of House Bill 2058, which allows persons 18, 19 and 20 to get a concealed carry permit.

The bill also makes it easier in some cases for felons convicted of violent crimes to reacquire their rights to possess and carry firearms.
Isn't this contrary to the GCA? Federal law?
Yes. Under the Gun Control Act (GCA), shotguns and rifles, and ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 18 years of age or older. All firearms other than shotguns and rifles, and all ammunition other than ammunition for shotguns or rifles may be sold only to individuals 21 years of age or older. Licensees are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA regardless of State or local law. However, if State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age for the purchase or disposition of firearms, the licensee must observe the higher age requirement.
That pertains to sales by FFLs, not private sales and not possession.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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Far as I'm concerned, this is a fine idea. Remember, "old enough to fight, old enough to vote". Same should apply to other rights; if we as a nation deem someone between 18-20 years old, old enough to die for his country by draft--which is the case!--then he's old enough to exercise the same rights that I do at...older than 18-20. :-)

I used to work for a gun store. The Federal rules were that we couldn't sell a handgun to someone under 21. However, we had plenty of young military members from the nearby base coming in to shoot at our range, and they would bring their own pistols. Federal law allows this, and Virginia law does not restrict it further...nor should it. Thus, we of course assigned 'em a lane and they got in their practice.

As sikacz said, "Guns need to be normalized and safety training brought into schools. It’s no different than any shop class." I would slightly tweak that to, "safety training brough *BACK* into schools", because we used to do that.
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Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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CowboyT wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:16 pm Far as I'm concerned, this is a fine idea. Remember, "old enough to fight, old enough to vote". Same should apply to other rights; if we as a nation deem someone between 18-20 years old, old enough to die for his country by draft--which is the case!--then he's old enough to exercise the same rights that I do at...older than 18-20. :-)

I used to work for a gun store. The Federal rules were that we couldn't sell a handgun to someone under 21. However, we had plenty of young military members from the nearby base coming in to shoot at our range, and they would bring their own pistols. Federal law allows this, and Virginia law does not restrict it further...nor should it. Thus, we of course assigned 'em a lane and they got in their practice.

As sikacz said, "Guns need to be normalized and safety training brought into schools. It’s no different than any shop class." I would slightly tweak that to, "safety training brough *BACK* into schools", because we used to do that.
I got my first education in gun safety and handling was from my Dad, a career military man specialized in armament and electronics, when I got my first real looking toy guns at age 4, later in Jr. high school it was with Boy Scouts, and later in Jr. ROTC and being on the rifle team. We need to start earlier than high school on firearm education.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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TrueTexan wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:00 pm
CowboyT wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:16 pm Far as I'm concerned, this is a fine idea. Remember, "old enough to fight, old enough to vote". Same should apply to other rights; if we as a nation deem someone between 18-20 years old, old enough to die for his country by draft--which is the case!--then he's old enough to exercise the same rights that I do at...older than 18-20. :-)

I used to work for a gun store. The Federal rules were that we couldn't sell a handgun to someone under 21. However, we had plenty of young military members from the nearby base coming in to shoot at our range, and they would bring their own pistols. Federal law allows this, and Virginia law does not restrict it further...nor should it. Thus, we of course assigned 'em a lane and they got in their practice.

As sikacz said, "Guns need to be normalized and safety training brought into schools. It’s no different than any shop class." I would slightly tweak that to, "safety training brough *BACK* into schools", because we used to do that.
I got my first education in gun safety and handling was from my Dad, a career military man specialized in armament and electronics, when I got my first real looking toy guns at age 4, later in Jr. high school it was with Boy Scouts, and later in Jr. ROTC and being on the rifle team. We need to start earlier than high school on firearm education.
Agree, earlier would be better.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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When I was 18 I thought I was very mature. I was glad that the voting age had just gotten lowered, especially since I was looking at the possibility of being drafted to go to a war I didn't support. I proudly cast my ballots for Shirley Chisholm and George McGovern (you see how well that went). But I was definitely not emotionally mature enough to CCW. I knew that even then.

YMMV.
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Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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Just a reminder we aren’t drafting anymore. In fact there is talk to do away with the draft. Does anybody remember when the Federal government dropped the voting age to 18 many states also dropped the age to by alcohol to 18. that was a disaster. We had 18 y.o. Buying the booze fr their 16 and 17 y.o. Running buddies. Ask yourselves, When you were in high school you ran around with 16, 17 and 18y.o. In high school with you. When you graduated and went to college or a job . How long did you still run around with the guys still in high school? If you were like most of us you didn’t for very long. You made new older friends and you were growing up.

As for going to war, at one time, you can enlist into the military at age 17 with parent’s permission. My Dad had my grandmother sign his permission and they lied about his age one month short of 17. But this was in1940. He had already fished his school and was working as a projectionist in a movie theatre. He enlisted before they started drafting for WWII.By 1941 he was a Sargent and PT/ Drill instructor at the new Shepard Army Air Field. And was made an acting First Sargent just before Pearl Harbor. But times change how many 18 y.o.s today do you know that could do that?

Keep the conceal and handgun purchase age at 21.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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I'm not arguing in favor of 18 year old concealed carry, but I am in arguing in favor of philosophical and ideological alignment. 18 year olds are not "adult enough" to handle a firearm privately but can on a battlefield makes no sense. 18 year olds are not "adult enough" to purchase a handgun, but a 13 year old is adult enough to be charged as one for using that handgun in a crime. I don't really care what the age threshold is, but there should be some degree of consistency as to what activities the government gets to decide someone is "adult enough" to participate in.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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keenanmj85 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:48 pm I'm not arguing in favor of 18 year old concealed carry, but I am in arguing in favor of philosophical and ideological alignment. 18 year olds are not "adult enough" to handle a firearm privately but can on a battlefield makes no sense. 18 year olds are not "adult enough" to purchase a handgun, but a 13 year old is adult enough to be charged as one for using that handgun in a crime. I don't really care what the age threshold is, but there should be some degree of consistency as to what activities the government gets to decide someone is "adult enough" to participate in.
Agree, it’s illogical. Perhaps the age for military service and voting should be raised to 21 years. Or lower everything to 18 years. I really don’t care which. Goes for drinking too.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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TrueTexan wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm Just a reminder we aren’t drafting anymore. In fact there is talk to do away with the draft. Does anybody remember when the Federal government dropped the voting age to 18 many states also dropped the age to by alcohol to 18. that was a disaster. We had 18 y.o. Buying the booze fr their 16 and 17 y.o. Running buddies. Ask yourselves, When you were in high school you ran around with 16, 17 and 18y.o. In high school with you. When you graduated and went to college or a job . How long did you still run around with the guys still in high school? If you were like most of us you didn’t for very long. You made new older friends and you were growing up.

As for going to war, at one time, you can enlist into the military at age 17 with parent’s permission. My Dad had my grandmother sign his permission and they lied about his age one month short of 17. But this was in1940. He had already fished his school and was working as a projectionist in a movie theatre. He enlisted before they started drafting for WWII.By 1941 he was a Sargent and PT/ Drill instructor at the new Shepard Army Air Field. And was made an acting First Sargent just before Pearl Harbor. But times change how many 18 y.o.s today do you know that could do that?

Keep the conceal and handgun purchase age at 21.
Actually, that's what Selective Service is--the draft. All 18 year old young men are required to register for the draft, under penalty of jail time and a fine. Yes, you can go to jail if you don't register for the draft (females exempted). The only reason we're not drafting people is because, at present, we have a sufficient all-volunteer force, but you bet your sweet patootie that if an unpopular war such as Vietnam were to happen again, you'd see the draft happen again.

I was in Basic Training with a 17-year-old. He got his parent's sign-off and actually did join at that age. But that's volunteer; I don't know if you still can join at 17 with parents' permission, but you could when I joined. Still volunteer, though. The draft is mandatory, i. e. if your number comes up, you go serve or you go to jail.

If you want to keep the conceal and handgun purchase age at 21, then OK; make the draft also 21. "Old enough to fight, old enough to exercise ALL Constitutional rights fully." Whatever we do, we need to be consistent with it.
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Re: Kansas House votes to lower concealed carry applicant age to 18, restore RKBA to some convicts in veto override

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Y'all are awfully flippant about the electoral consequences of raising the voting age back to 21. Sure, let's disqualify the most left-leaning age demographic, one that's already notoriously difficult to get to the polls, when the continuation of the republic depends on just a few thousand votes in just a few states. Great idea.

Look, I learned to shoot before high school too. Strong proponent of safety training. I see the paradox inherent in issuing sidearms to 18 year olds but denying them the right to purchase them. Same for states that consider military experience equivalent to CHL training and licensure. I was young enough recently enough - in memory, anyway - to recall the great many injustices and inconsistencies of age-dependent civil rights. I still have a ways to go before I'm comfortable with college freshmen carrying concealed.

Same time, I look back at the amount of time I spent in the backcountry as a youth with nothing more than a pocketknife between me and a puma, and totally understand why rural communities are going to have a different perspective than urban ones. I dunno.

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