Re: Stupid illogical movies

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I thought the movie Patriot Games was a distinct improvement from the book. What a yawner.

Fleming's later Bond stories are kind of fun. I think he started to get bored with them, and kept trying to veer off to try something new. Totally agree about The Spy Who Loved Me. Took some chances with the first-person perspective - and it's really more noir than thriller. Arson and insurance fraud, yay. The one title they never used was The Hildebrandt Rarity, although elements ended up in License to Kill. Basically a murder mystery on a yacht, only the victim deserved it, so who cared? Quantum of Solace hardly even featured Bond - he just listened to a dinner-party tale of divorce and petty revenge.

A little disturbed by how well I remember those, decades later.

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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wings wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:27 am I thought the movie Patriot Games was a distinct improvement from the book. What a yawner.

Fleming's later Bond stories are kind of fun. I think he started to get bored with them, and kept trying to veer off to try something new. Totally agree about The Spy Who Loved Me. Took some chances with the first-person perspective - and it's really more noir than thriller. Arson and insurance fraud, yay. The one title they never used was The Hildebrandt Rarity, although elements ended up in License to Kill. Basically a murder mystery on a yacht, only the victim deserved it, so who cared? Quantum of Solace hardly even featured Bond - he just listened to a dinner-party tale of divorce and petty revenge.

A little disturbed by how well I remember those, decades later.
I liked the book very much. The movie, even with Harrison Ford and Sean Bean, not so much. Trivia: Bean got the scar on his face when he and Harrison were working on the fight scene.

I don't remember The Hildebrandt Rarity. Was it a novella, like Octopussy? And was Quantum of Solace even by Fleming? There were a series of Bond books picked up by another writer, but they weren't very good.

While I very much liked both the LOTR and Harry Potter movies (but the Hobbit trilogy sucked), I know of very few movies that improved on the book.
1) The Natural. Malamud's story is a depressing tale implying you can never escape or overcome your past, and a mistake you make as a young man dooms you. Ugh. Why be alive then?
2) 2001: A Space Odyssey. Ever read the book?
3) A Clockwork Orange. While the book, especially with the long-deleted final chapter is pretty good, the movie is, a half-century later, still as controversial.

Funny--2) and 3) are both Kubrick adaptations.
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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Stanley knew how to make good movie. There is always Dr. Strangelove.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer-Kissinger
Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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TrueTexan wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:59 am Stanley knew how to make good movie. There is always Dr. Strangelove.
Was that based on a book? I'm not sure if Paths of Glory was or not. Barry Lynden is.
Lolita is, but I simply am not nor ever was interested in either a book or movie about a pervert pedo.
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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Star Ultrastar manufactured by Star Bonifacio Echeverria of Spain, the company is no long in business but someone put up a website:
http://star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/ ... ndex.shtml

So many European countries got out of manufacturing handguns but some still manufacture rifles and shotguns. Spain is one of those countries.


So much of TV and films are unrealistic escapism, filled with paranormal, sci-fi, fantasy, horror, thriller - characters die and then magically they reappear. Writers rooms have nothing to do with reality - , cops rare miss when shooting, shoot perps in the legs and shoot out tires. Cops always yell a perps name so it starts a chase because it's good drama not that real cops would do it. They always promise a family that they'll find the killer or a patient that they will be fine and all the series start sounding the same. I'm beginning to think that writers rooms are full of people smoking, snorting or drinking something. Good films and TV series are rare.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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Suspension of disbelief is critical to all the dramatic arts. BUT, it must be logically consistent according to the rules spelled out. And, if it's based on a book, it needs to respect that book. "Without Remorse" is a story that takes place while Jack Ryan is still a college student and his father, Emmett, is a cop tracking the killings Kelly is making, and the ones he's avenging. The movie has nothing to do with that. It's like if the Matt Damon in "The Bourne Identity" is the Rolls-Royce, Michael B. Jordan "Without Remorse" is the Yugo.
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:59 pm Suspension of disbelief is critical to all the dramatic arts. BUT, it must be logically consistent according to the rules spelled out. And, if it's based on a book, it needs to respect that book. "Without Remorse" is a story that takes place while Jack Ryan is still a college student and his father, Emmett, is a cop tracking the killings Kelly is making, and the ones he's avenging. The movie has nothing to do with that. It's like if the Matt Damon in "The Bourne Identity" is the Rolls-Royce, Michael B. Jordan "Without Remorse" is the Yugo.
Tom Clancy the old reactionary is long gone, but his five kids still want the money flowing so I don't think they're overly concerned with authenticity. A shame, so the writers get to alter characters, create new ones, change the plot, change location, change time period...all to conform to the formula and make everyone money. I agree that drama involves some suspension of belief, but once they jump the shark it's over for me. Most of film and TV writing is crap, but they all laugh as they walk to the bank.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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highdesert wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 4:19 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:59 pm Suspension of disbelief is critical to all the dramatic arts. BUT, it must be logically consistent according to the rules spelled out. And, if it's based on a book, it needs to respect that book. "Without Remorse" is a story that takes place while Jack Ryan is still a college student and his father, Emmett, is a cop tracking the killings Kelly is making, and the ones he's avenging. The movie has nothing to do with that. It's like if the Matt Damon in "The Bourne Identity" is the Rolls-Royce, Michael B. Jordan "Without Remorse" is the Yugo.
Tom Clancy the old reactionary is long gone, but his five kids still want the money flowing so I don't think they're overly concerned with authenticity. A shame, so the writers get to alter characters, create new ones, change the plot, change location, change time period...all to conform to the formula and make everyone money. I agree that drama involves some suspension of belief, but once they jump the shark it's over for me. Most of film and TV writing is crap, but they all laugh as they walk to the bank.
Can't argue with that. Clancy kept MOST of his politics out of stuff for most of his work, but Dale Brown, by the time Clinton was President, had his villain fantasizing and planning on raping Hillary--that's when I stopped buying his books. Brown's intro "Flight of the Old Dog" was terrific.

When, in his last Nathan McBride book, Andrew Peterson, did a flat-out tonguing of Trump's asshole, half his fans (like me) swore to never give him another penny.
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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Dr. Strangelove was a send-up of the strait-laced Fail-Safe. Originally a book, then a movie, both dead serious about the problem of averting an accidental nuclear war. Crimson Tide was loosely the same plot, the problem of rescinding nuclear strike orders once committed. Since everyone remembers Dr. Strangelove and nobody remembers Fail-Safe, I think the point about the power of satire is made.
YankeeTarheel wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:57 am
wings wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:27 am I thought the movie Patriot Games was a distinct improvement from the book. What a yawner.

Fleming's later Bond stories are kind of fun. I think he started to get bored with them, and kept trying to veer off to try something new. Totally agree about The Spy Who Loved Me. Took some chances with the first-person perspective - and it's really more noir than thriller. Arson and insurance fraud, yay. The one title they never used was The Hildebrandt Rarity, although elements ended up in License to Kill. Basically a murder mystery on a yacht, only the victim deserved it, so who cared? Quantum of Solace hardly even featured Bond - he just listened to a dinner-party tale of divorce and petty revenge.

A little disturbed by how well I remember those, decades later.
I liked the book very much. The movie, even with Harrison Ford and Sean Bean, not so much. Trivia: Bean got the scar on his face when he and Harrison were working on the fight scene.

I don't remember The Hildebrandt Rarity. Was it a novella, like Octopussy? And was Quantum of Solace even by Fleming? There were a series of Bond books picked up by another writer, but they weren't very good.

While I very much liked both the LOTR and Harry Potter movies (but the Hobbit trilogy sucked), I know of very few movies that improved on the book.
1) The Natural. Malamud's story is a depressing tale implying you can never escape or overcome your past, and a mistake you make as a young man dooms you. Ugh. Why be alive then?
2) 2001: A Space Odyssey. Ever read the book?
3) A Clockwork Orange. While the book, especially with the long-deleted final chapter is pretty good, the movie is, a half-century later, still as controversial.

Funny--2) and 3) are both Kubrick adaptations.
Most of Fleming's short stories were compiled as "For Your Eyes Only." The revenge plot ended up loosely incorporated into the movie, easily the best of the Moore years. It included The Hildebrandt Rarity and Quantum of Solace, as well as FYEO. Oh! Wikipedia has a page on it. I'd forgotten Risico - although it got incorporated into the movie version of FYEO - and A View To A Kill, which again has nothing to do with the movie - basically a screen treatment for an unrealized TV series premiere. Octopussy and another story that got wrapped into that movie were published separately.

Firmly believe 2001 the movie was by far the better of the two. Love 2010 for completely unrelated reasons.

Re: Stupid illogical movies

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My older son, as a little boy, was FASCINATED by 2001--we watched it many times together. Hated 2010, but....that's why they make Chips Ahoy and Oreos, cuz' everyone's different. (I LOVE the double-stuffed lemon Oreos!)

I found the Roger Moore and later Bond movies just plain boring. But the first Daniel Craig movie was a stunning reversal of all the previous boring schlock. The next was OK, then Skyfall...then I got bored again (I gather so did Craig!)
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

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